NIBMSCM@NDSUVM1.BITNET (11/06/90)
I know this group is not for product review, but what about programming products?? I'm trying to get everything situated for windows development and would like some opinions on the quality of Microsoft's Programmers Library CD (with the Denon drive) and the Microsoft C Run-time Library Source Routines. If anyone out there is using either in a development effort, I would appreciate your comments on their usefulness. Thanks...
spolsky-joel@cs.yale.edu (Joel Spolsky) (11/06/90)
In article <90309.111451NIBMSCM@NDSUVM1.BITNET> NIBMSCM@NDSUVM1.BITNET writes: >I know this group is not for product review, but what about programming >products?? I'm trying to get everything situated for windows development >and would like some opinions on the quality of Microsoft's Programmers Library >CD (with the Denon drive) and the Microsoft C Run-time Library Source Routines. >If anyone out there is using either in a development effort, I would appreciate >your comments on their usefulness. The Programmers Library CD: last time I looked at this it was a bit out of date. I don't think it has been updated since it was released. It has things like the complete text of Petzold's Programming Windows -- version 2.0. The truth is, I don't think it is very useful, and the places where it is out of date are a pain (you'd think it wouldn't be that hard for Microsoft to keep it up to date). The run-time library source may be useful to a windows developer, because the windows C library is not very complete. However for those one or two routines you need, you might just want to write them yourself. In summary these products are marginally useful but probably not worth the money. Joel Spolsky spolsky@cs.yale.edu Silence = Death
goodearl@world.std.com (Robert Goodearl) (11/07/90)
In article <27085@cs.yale.edu> spolsky-joel@cs.yale.edu (Joel Spolsky) writes: >In article <90309.111451NIBMSCM@NDSUVM1.BITNET> NIBMSCM@NDSUVM1.BITNET writes: >>I know this group is not for product review, but what about programming >>products?? ... > >The Programmers Library CD: last time I looked at this it was a bit >out of date. I don't think it has been updated since it was released. Microsoft has recently (within the last 1-2 months) announced a new version of the Programmers' Library CD. If it has the new Petzold (it's out!), I think it would be quite worthwhile. Has anybody actually seen the new version? >The run-time library source may be useful to a windows developer, >because the windows C library is not very complete. However for those >one or two routines you need, you might just want to write them >yourself. We got a copy of the library sources because I was porting some code that used sscanf from a dll. (That's not supported in windows.) The code was not very well commented and I didn't need much of the functionality, so I ended up rewriting to avoid the use of sscanf. I think the sources would be very useful if you needed to better understand the behavior of a library routine, or to make romable code. -- Bob Goodearl -- goodearl@world.std.com
spolsky-joel@cs.yale.edu (Joel Spolsky) (11/07/90)
In article <1990Nov6.180958.17256@world.std.com> goodearl@world.std.com (Robert Goodearl) writes: [ about MSC Library Source ] >I think the sources would be very useful if you needed to better understand >the behavior of a library routine, or to make romable code. In fact, reading over some of the assembler code on those disks, I was truly impressed by what hoops MS jumps through to squeeze more speed out of their libraries. For example, string/memory copy functions use the Intel memmov (REP MOV) instruction, but they also make sure to word align for improved performance -- these libraries contain an impressive amount of micro optimization, enough to scare me out of every wanting to "roll my own". But prepackaged libraries are not always the fastest, I once looked at the code in the MPW (Apple Macintosh) C libraries and was unimpressed; I wrote a strcpy which outperformed their library version. Joel Spolsky spolsky@cs.yale.edu Silence = Death
tomr@ashtate (Tom Rombouts) (11/07/90)
In article <27085@cs.yale.edu> spolsky-joel@cs.yale.edu (Joel Spolsky) writes: >In article <90309.111451NIBMSCM@NDSUVM1.BITNET> NIBMSCM@NDSUVM1.BITNET writes: >>.... I'm trying to get everything situated for windows development >>and would like some opinions on the quality of Microsoft's Programmers Library >>CD.... >The Programmers Library CD: last time I looked at this it was a bit >out of date. [deleted] > The truth is, I don't think it is very useful [deleted] Also, be warned that that the 15 or so books on the disk are in an indexed (read: encrypted) format. The little program that comes with the CD is limited to cutting and pasting 200 lines at a time. (Although a skillful Superkey macro could automate this a good deal.) Thus, dumping out a copy or two of Petzold to a laser printer is trickier than it might seem. For a big company with diverse needs, the MS CD can be an excellant buy. However, if you are just doing Windows work you will be paying for megs of material that you do not need. BTW, on the subject of CDs in general, the Ziff-Davis "Computer Library" series is excellent, especially given the complex and fast-changing nature of the micro industry. Also, Alde in Minnesota also has some c. $99 CD's that are very reasonable. Tom Rombouts Torrance Techie tomr@ashtate.A-T.com V:(213) 538-7108