jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) (03/19/91)
On CNN a few minutes ago was a report on multimedia. Shown were Tandy and
other CD-ROM computers, and mentioned were the "Philips and Commodore units
later this year." I thought the CDTV was this week at CeBIT.
--
// Joseph Hillenburg/Blackwinter, Secretary, Bloomington Amiga Users Group
\X/ jph@valnet.UUCP jph@irie.ais.org jph@wookumz.ai.mit.edu
"Project: Desert Storm is also known as ``The Mother of All Ass-Kickings.''"xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) (03/20/91)
In article <%YY-8#%@irie.ais.org>, jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) writes: >On CNN a few minutes ago was a report on multimedia. Shown were Tandy and >other CD-ROM computers, and mentioned were the "Philips and Commodore units >later this year." I thought the CDTV was this week at CeBIT. This brings up a nagging question that I've been wanting to ask for some time. What hasn't Commodore produced a true "CD-ROM computer"? The CDTV is being marketed more as a fancy appliance than a computer, so it doesn't quite fir this description. What I mean is that I feel Commodore should develop and market a new Amiga model which has a built-in CD-ROM, in addition to the normal hardware (floppy drive, keyboard, mouse, etc.). This would basically be a CDTV with a computer-style case (instead of a CD-player-style case) and an attached keyboard, floppy drive and mouse. It would also be minus the front cartridge-style port, as it would not be needed. The reason I bring this up is that I feel that such a computer would actually be more successful than the CDTV itself. The CDTV will have lots of competition from the CD-I backers, and from other companies as well, while there aren't all that many computers on the market that have built-in CD-ROM drives. BTW, while I am on this topic, where is that stand-alone CD-ROM drive for all Amigas? (The one from Commodore which would allow all Amigas to run CDTV software) I should think that such a drive would be MUCH easier to design an develop than a computer like the CDTV, yet the CDTV is shipping already and the CD-ROM drive hasn't even been made available to developers yet. Either Commodore's marketing people have their priorities screwed up, or Commodore's R&D department can't work on more than one CD-ROM product at once. (I tend to believe both of these explanations) > >-- > // Joseph Hillenburg/Blackwinter, Secretary, Bloomington Amiga Users Group > \X/ jph@valnet.UUCP jph@irie.ais.org jph@wookumz.ai.mit.edu > "Project: Desert Storm is also known as ``The Mother of All Ass-Kickings.''" -MB-
skank@iastate.edu (Skank George L) (03/20/91)
In article <1991Mar19.222832.23744@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: >In article <%YY-8#%@irie.ais.org>, jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) writes: >>On CNN a few minutes ago was a report on multimedia. Shown were Tandy and >>other CD-ROM computers, and mentioned were the "Philips and Commodore units >>later this year." I thought the CDTV was this week at CeBIT. > > This brings up a nagging question that I've been wanting to ask for >some time. What hasn't Commodore produced a true "CD-ROM computer"? >The CDTV is being marketed more as a fancy appliance than a computer, >so it doesn't quite fir this description. ^^^ typo Marc? ;-) > > What I mean is that I feel Commodore should develop and market a >new Amiga model which has a built-in CD-ROM, in addition to the normal >hardware (floppy drive, keyboard, mouse, etc.). This would basically >be a CDTV with a computer-style case (instead of a CD-player-style >case) and an attached keyboard, floppy drive and mouse. It would >also be minus the front cartridge-style port, as it would not be >needed. > > The reason I bring this up is that I feel that such a computer >would actually be more successful than the CDTV itself. The CDTV will >have lots of competition from the CD-I backers, and from other >companies as well, while there aren't all that many computers on the >market that have built-in CD-ROM drives. > > BTW, while I am on this topic, where is that stand-alone CD-ROM >drive for all Amigas? (The one from Commodore which would allow all What are you talking about? I don't remember Commodore promising such a device, I've heard *rumors* of such a beast but NO FORMAL PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENTS. Perhaps I'm just uninformed. What about it folks, has Commodore formally announced the existence of such a beast or what? >Amigas to run CDTV software) I should think that such a drive would >be MUCH easier to design an develop than a computer like the CDTV, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Marc, Marc, MARC!!!!! YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW DIUFFICULT IT IS TO DEVELOPE A COMPUTER SYSTEM!!!! When you FINISH your degree program here at Iowa State, *THEN* and only then will you have any INCLING what is involved in the process. GOD!!! Talking to you I'd think it was some sort of magical process where Dave Haney waves a wand and BOOM, look, it's the A3000! >yet the CDTV is shipping already and the CD-ROM drive hasn't even >been made available to developers yet. Either Commodore's marketing >people have their priorities screwed up, or Commodore's R&D department >can't work on more than one CD-ROM product at once. (I tend to believe >both of these explanations) We know you believe these explanations Marc, because they are SIMPLE AND EASY FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND. For the most part, most of us don't think you have any idea what it is you are talking about. Enongh is enough Marc, I think you owe Commodore's R&D department and the Marketing department both a heartfelt apology.
hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Adam Hill) (03/20/91)
In article <1991Mar19.222832.23744@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: > This brings up a nagging question that I've been wanting to ask for >some time. What hasn't Commodore produced a true "CD-ROM computer"? >The CDTV is being marketed more as a fancy appliance than a computer, >so it doesn't quite fir this description. > > What I mean is that I feel Commodore should develop and market a >new Amiga model which has a built-in CD-ROM, in addition to the normal >hardware (floppy drive, keyboard, mouse, etc.). This would basically >be a CDTV with a computer-style case (instead of a CD-player-style >case) and an attached keyboard, floppy drive and mouse. It would >also be minus the front cartridge-style port, as it would not be >needed. There is a FINE file system out there for CD_ROM players. It is produced by Hypermedia Concepts in Canada. All you need is $40.00 (For the CDROM Filesystem) and a 2091 SCSI controller. Plug in the CDROM drive (I played with a Toshiba drive.) and "mount CDROM-FS:"!! It worked flawlessly with the FF Disk CDROM, and it is ISO/High Sierra compatible so you can pull info off of MSDOS and Mac CD's. (As long as the files are not "encrypted" in any way). People have successfully pulled TIFF off of Mac CD and converted them to IFF. > The reason I bring this up is that I feel that such a computer >would actually be more successful than the CDTV itself. The CDTV will >have lots of competition from the CD-I backers, and from other >companies as well, while there aren't all that many computers on the >market that have built-in CD-ROM drives. > > BTW, while I am on this topic, where is that stand-alone CD-ROM >drive for all Amigas? (The one from Commodore which would allow all >Amigas to run CDTV software) The one in Amazing looks A LOT like a 590 with a CDROM! *Most* CDTV games will work on a 500 with CBM CDROM or a Xetec. You actually have to try it as I have NO idea what would cause one NOT to work. The New Hertiage Dictionary boots into a 1.3 CLI, one of the ways to inhibit CD boot is to attach an external floppy drive. (Who's pinout is just SLIGHTLY different than a "normal" floppy expansion :-) But one can build an adapter.. CBM shipped one to developers.) > I should think that such a drive would >be MUCH easier to design an develop than a computer like the CDTV, >yet the CDTV is shipping already and the CD-ROM drive hasn't even >been made available to developers yet. Either Commodore's marketing >people have their priorities screwed up, or Commodore's R&D department >can't work on more than one CD-ROM product at once. (I tend to believe >both of these explanations) >> >>-- >> // Joseph Hillenburg/Blackwinter, Secretary, Bloomington Amiga Users Group >> \X/ jph@valnet.UUCP jph@irie.ais.org jph@wookumz.ai.mit.edu >> "Project: Desert Storm is also known as ``The Mother of All Ass-Kickings.''" > > > -MB- -- adam hill -- hill@evax.uta.edu ASOCC - University of Texas at UTA I programmed for three days Make Up Your Own Mind.. AMIGA! And heard no human voices. Amiga... Multimedia NOW! But the hard disk sang. - TZoP Born To Run SVR4
GHGAQZ4@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (03/20/91)
>>Amigas to run CDTV software) I should think that such a drive would >>be MUCH easier to design an develop than a computer like the CDTV, > > NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Marc, Marc, MARC!!!!! YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW >DIUFFICULT IT IS TO DEVELOPE A COMPUTER SYSTEM!!!! When you FINISH your >degree program here at Iowa State, *THEN* and only then will you have >any INCLING what is involved in the process. GOD!!! Talking to you I'd >think it was some sort of magical process where Dave Haney waves a wand >and BOOM, look, it's the A3000! I think you should really try to understand what Marc was saying :-) Marc said that he thought it would be much simpler to design a CD ROM (without computer) than a computer with CD-ROM built-in. And I agree with him. I think you have swapped the interpretation of Marc's statement a bit. Jorrit Tyberghein
ACPS1072@RYERSON <ACPS1072@Ryerson.CA> (03/21/91)
I think Commodore's idea to market a CD-Rom player (as opposed to a computer with a CD-ROM player) is a great idea. It attacks the market of non-computer people (like artsie fartsie students - no offense :> ). People get sick, discussed, and even fear a "computer thingy-ma-bobber with it's cryptic methods of working" (quoting an artsie friend of mine). Take for example Machintosh (ok it's a little flame), the whole concept of owning a MAC is so you don't have to know how a computer works (maybe that's a good thing). They sure sell a lot of these little pests so Apple must be To bring up yet another point, how can we make a CD-Rom base machine with so few CD-ROM discs out in the market. Again we can look at the Mac as an example. There really is not much selection out there. Discus kiddie CDs, the occassional programmers utilities, dictionaries (that sort of thing) and various comic books (which have been rumoured to be coming soon). Now we ask ourselves... Do we really want to market Commodore's new gadget as a computer? Just thought I'd get my two cents in. Derek Lang<<<<< | ACPS1072@Ryerson | "Hit me on the head with a crowbar and call me stupid." Toronto, ON | - me, programming the grave yard shift Canada |
kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (03/21/91)
>> BTW, while I am on this topic, where is that stand-alone CD-ROM >>drive for all Amigas? (The one from Commodore which would allow all > > What are you talking about? I don't remember Commodore promising >such a device, I've heard *rumors* of such a beast but NO FORMAL >PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENTS. Perhaps I'm just uninformed. What about it >folks, has Commodore formally announced the existence of such a beast >or what? I've only heard rumors also, altho of course _everyone_ expects such a device to show up sooner or later. Perhaps this fellow knows something: Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom Subject: RE: CDTV and Mac ripoff, Message-ID: <CDROM-L%91031919441916@UCCVMA.BITNET> Date: 20 Mar 91 FIEBERJR@WHITMAN.BITNET (John Fieber) writes: >Commodore also has a CDTV drive for the Amiga 500 (A690) that is due >to be released in July of this year. The price is unknown at this time. >Also, they will have something similar for the 2000 and 3000 series >computers but there is not date on that either. Or is that just wishful thinking on his part? - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (03/22/91)
ACPS1072@Ryerson.CA (ACPS1072@RYERSON) writes: >I think Commodore's idea to market a CD-Rom player (as opposed to a >computer with a CD-ROM player) is a great idea. It attacks the market >of non-computer people (like artsie fartsie students - no offense :> ). No flame, and it _is_ a good idea, but to keep the history straight let us remember that Sony/Philips first publicly announced the idea (CD-I) back in Feb, 1986. If CD-I consumer players hadn't been delayed so long, it's doubtful that CDTV would've been brought out. > To bring up yet another point, how can we make a CD-Rom base machine with >so few CD-ROM discs out in the market. I think that's the real beauty of CDTV... it has rather quickly brought CDROM attention and discs to Amiga hardware. The publicity has surely been worth its weight in gold to Commodore. BYTE's Computer Chronicles TV show this week in NC was on the last CES, and the first ten minutes featured CDTV. Quite a coup! >Just thought I'd get my two cents in. Me too ;-). Thx. kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
patrick_meloy@outbound.wimsey.bc.ca (Patrick Meloy) (03/24/91)
> This brings up a nagging question that I've been wanting to ask for >some time. What hasn't Commodore produced a true "CD-ROM computer"? >The CDTV is being marketed more as a fancy appliance than a computer, >so it doesn't quite fir this description. I've seen other postings about this same subject. Either Commodore isn't doing a good enough job about informing the public or the public is ignoring what Commodore has been saying. CDTV is an Amiga 500 (basically) in a different case with a built in CD-ROM. It will accept all the usual items that a normal computer uses. ie: Keyboard, floppies, mouse. The CDTV is not packaged with these items because it is not really meant to be used a 'traditional' computer. They did however allow things to be set up that way to satisfy the people that need it (ie: developers). I've had the pleasure of looking at CDTV while at the Vancouver Commodore offices and I was QUITE impressed! --------------------------------------- | patrick_meloy@outbound.wimsey.bc.ca | | 'The Outbound' BBS Vancouver BC | ---------------------------------------
xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) (03/25/91)
In article <patrick_meloy.2791@outbound.wimsey.bc.ca>, patrick_meloy@outbound.wimsey.bc.ca (Patrick Meloy) writes: >> This brings up a nagging question that I've been wanting to ask for >>some time. What hasn't Commodore produced a true "CD-ROM computer"? >>The CDTV is being marketed more as a fancy appliance than a computer, >>so it doesn't quite fir this description. > >I've seen other postings about this same subject. Either Commodore isn't doing >a good enough job about informing the public or the public is ignoring what >Commodore has been saying. > >CDTV is an Amiga 500 (basically) in a different case with a built in CD-ROM. >It will accept all the usual items that a normal computer uses. ie: Keyboard, >floppies, mouse. The CDTV is not packaged with these items because it is not >really meant to be used a 'traditional' computer. They did however allow >things to be set up that way to satisfy the people that need it (ie: >developers). I've had the pleasure of looking at CDTV while at the Vancouver >Commodore offices and I was QUITE impressed! True, the CDTV will accept a keyboard, floppy drive, and mouse. However, none of these are standard, and all have to be added later. This makes the CDTV totally inadequate for use as a desktop computer. Commodore needs something like the CDTV, but with the keyboard, mouse, floppy drive, and AmigaOS 2.0 as standard hardware. -MB- > >--------------------------------------- >| patrick_meloy@outbound.wimsey.bc.ca | >| 'The Outbound' BBS Vancouver BC | >---------------------------------------
kudla@rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) (03/25/91)
In article <1991Mar24.204229.26637@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) writes:
True, the CDTV will accept a keyboard, floppy drive, and mouse. However,
none of these are standard, and all have to be added later. This makes the
CDTV totally inadequate for use as a desktop computer. Commodore needs
something like the CDTV, but with the keyboard, mouse, floppy drive, and
AmigaOS 2.0 as standard hardware.
Oh yeah, that'll be a *great* toy to market to the sophisticated
Nintendophiles and video/audio people who are scared off by anything
resembling a QWERTY keyboard or floppy disk drives....
Actually, I think Commodore's current solution is the best one,
assuming it all goes as planned. The CDTV as a standalone unit for
multimedia/entertainment/whatever purposes, and the A690 (whenever it
gets released) as the general purpose CD-ROM drive, with the
hypothetical A2690 to follow.....ppessi@vipunen.hut.fi (Pekka Pessi) (03/26/91)
In article <1991Mar20.034149.15840@evax.arl.utexas.edu> hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Adam Hill) writes: > The one in Amazing looks A LOT like a 590 with a CDROM! *Most* CDTV >games will work on a 500 with CBM CDROM or a Xetec. You actually have >to try it as I have NO idea what would cause one NOT to work. The >New Hertiage Dictionary boots into a 1.3 CLI, one of the ways to >inhibit CD boot is to attach an external floppy drive. (Who's pinout >is just SLIGHTLY different than a "normal" floppy expansion :-) But >one can build an adapter.. CBM shipped one to developers.) I played today with a CDTV system, and its floppy disk, serial port and parallel port expansion worked just like in an A500 (well, first external floppy is DF0:). However, it was a beta release PAL device. Keyboard and joustick plugs are quite different from A2000, so I used AUX: and cordless mouse. ;) -- Pekka Pessi / ppessi@niksula.hut.fi
itch@cbnews.att.com (richard.m.brack) (03/26/91)
In article <4n5f2xd@rpi.edu>, kudla@rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) writes: > Actually, I think Commodore's current solution is the best one, > assuming it all goes as planned. The CDTV as a standalone unit for > multimedia/entertainment/whatever purposes, and the A690 (whenever it > gets released) as the general purpose CD-ROM drive, with the > hypothetical A2690 to follow..... ^^^^^ gee, I hope this will fit in my empty 5 1/4" drive bay on my 2000 :-)... RichBrack -- { the itchman cometh /-/ _ i don't want to be your angel } { itch@cbnews.att.com /-/ _|_|_ i want to be your witch! } { att!cbnews!itch \-\/-/ ( * )tch -yello } { \/\/ /^\ }
greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) (03/26/91)
In article <1991Mar24.204229.26637@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: > True, the CDTV will accept a keyboard, floppy drive, and mouse. However, >none of these are standard, and all have to be added later. This makes the >CDTV totally inadequate for use as a desktop computer. Commodore needs ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ >something like the CDTV, but with the keyboard, mouse, floppy drive, and >AmigaOS 2.0 as standard hardware. > > -MB- What you are asking for is available as the A500 (when 2.0 is released in ROM) with the A690. CDTV/CD-ROM peripherals will also be available for the 2000 and 3000. Why make a whole other version of the CDTV when the existing Amiga line fits the bill? Besides, C= might not be able to get a good enough sales return on such a device for the R&D spent. They'd have a hard time going below the low price of the A500, even coupled with the A690. Most buyers would probably either get the CDTV and not think of it as a computer or get an Amiga and get the CDTV periphs. I think it makes a *hell* of a lot of sense for the CDTV to _not_ have a standard keyboard and mouse. (I might have put a floppy in it, but that's easily remedied.) After all, it's not _supposed_ to be a computer. It's a multimedia audio/video _component_. Joe Consumer doesn't want to hook a computer to his A/V system. He wants to hook up this neat, new device that brings this new media to his home. Chances are that Joe Consumer is a compu-phobe and wouldn't buy a computer. After all, if you want a 'desktop computer' go buy a 'desktop computer.' If you want a multimedia A/V component, you're not _going_ to want to _buy_ a 'desktop computer.' It'd be silly to try and market _another_ version of the CDTV with a stock keyboard and floppy. Commodore might have a discounted package, though. As for 2.0 in the CDTV, who knows? I think C= doing a good job with the CDTV. I even buried my anticipation for its release and cheered when I heard that it was being delayed to allow more software titles to be completed before it's initial release. They've learned their lesson about releasing machines and _then_ getting the software made. BTW, has anybody had the sick idea of a CDTV par-netted to your existing system? That way you could use your HD (assuming you own one) or reverse the connection and read from CD-ROMs onto your Amiga. Greg -- Greg Harp |"How I wish, how I wish you were here. We're just two |lost souls swimming in a fishbowl, year after year, greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu|running over the same ground. What have we found? s609@cs.utexas.edu |The same old fears. Wish you were here." - Pink Floyd
kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (03/26/91)
>>Commodore needs something like the CDTV, but with the keyboard, mouse, >>floppy drive, and AmigaOS 2.0 as standard hardware. -MB- > >What you are asking for is available as the A500 (when 2.0 is released in ROM) >with the A690. CDTV/CD-ROM peripherals will also be available for the 2000 >and 3000. Why make a whole other version of the CDTV when the existing Amiga >line fits the bill? > >[and similar comments by many others] Umm. I think everyone has a point, but let's think about it some more... At first I was thinking to myself, well okay, CBM could plug together an Ax000/CD model out of already-done parts. And actually I suspect they will do so, because such ready-to-go combinations are A Big Deal right now. This has nothing to do with creating new hardware, but only creating a "new" computer in the mind of the public <grin>. Quick and easy. But before posting a message based on that thought, it occurred to me just now that such a combo would be rather costly. I mean, we see people wishing for a A500<NEW<A2000 model all the time here and on other nets... plus neither an expanded CDTV unit nor an expanded A500 would be a very integrated-looking setup, yah? So _why not_ sell an already-expanded CDTV unit in a different box? Perhaps it's not a GREAT idea, but certainly it is an attractive one ;-). Think about it like a new customer would. No, it's not NEEDED, but would be nice nevertheless. cheers - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>