sl87m@cc.usu.edu (The Barking Pumpkin Digital Gratification Ensemble) (05/31/91)
I saw lots of new Amiga goodies at a presentation here at Utah State a couple of weeks ago, including A3000UX and the CDTV. Since CDTV has been out for only a few weeks, the information I'm curious to know may not be available: Would it be possible to hook up an autobooting CD-ROM drive to an A500, and then be able to run CDTV titles? I see CDTV as having lots of potential, and would like to get a couple of the titles already out. However, a lack of $$$ for the CDTV restrains my wife and me. ------- TZMattaryey sl87m@cc.usu.edu P.S. A comment about the A3000UX. Wow. Very nice. The thing that I found most amazing is the A3000UX's ability to easily reboot to AmigaDOS 2.0, and then login to a remote site over EtherNet and display the remote directory as an icon, and manipulate that remote directory the same as one would a floppy or a hard drive. That caught everybody off guard.
zuckerma@aludra.usc.edu (David Zuckerman) (06/01/91)
In article <1991May31.093712.47965@cc.usu.edu> sl87m@cc.usu.edu (The Barking Pumpkin Digital Gratification Ensemble) writes: >Would it be possible to hook up an autobooting CD-ROM drive to an A500, and >then be able to run CDTV titles? I see CDTV as having lots of potential, and >would like to get a couple of the titles already out. However, a lack of $$$ >for the CDTV restrains my wife and me. Commodore plans to release a CD-ROM drive that attaches to the expansion port of the A500. Known as the A690, it's been shown at a past CES and carries a retail price of $699. And, yes, it plays all CDTV titles. CBM is also supposedly working on interfaces for the 2000 and 3000, so the drive can be run on other Amigas. According to the June '91 issue of AmigaWorld, it should be shipping "not long after you read this." I haven't seen it at any retail outlets yet; has anyone seen a real live A690 outside of a trade show? :) >------- >TZMattaryey >sl87m@cc.usu.edu -Dave -- David Zuckerman | "There's nothing wrong with my sense | Exercise // zuckerma@aludra.usc.edu | of reality. I have it thoroughly | good \\ // Univ of Southern CA | serviced every fortnight." | taste...\X/ Floyd the Droid Fan Club | - Zaphod Beeblebrox | Go Amiga...
pilgrim@daimi.aau.dk (Jakob G}rdsted) (06/03/91)
zuckerma@aludra.usc.edu (David Zuckerman) writes: >>for the CDTV restrains my wife and me. >Commodore plans to release a CD-ROM drive that attaches to the expansion >port of the A500. Known as the A690, it's been shown at a past CES and >carries a retail price of $699. WHAAAAT? If I have read other posts in these newsgroups correctly, this is more like the price for a CDTV!? Why would anybody want to pay so much for the drive, if they could get the CDTV(with an Amiga in it) for the same money? Surely, you are kidding? Or is the CDTV more expensive than I thought? -- From the notorious Jakob Gaardsted, Computer Science Department Bed og arbejd ! University of Aarhus, Jylland (!) (Pray and work!) AMIGA! pilgrim@daimi.aau.dk | I'd rather play Moria.
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/03/91)
In article <1991Jun2.232554.24741@daimi.aau.dk> pilgrim@daimi.aau.dk (Jakob G}rdsted) writes: >zuckerma@aludra.usc.edu (David Zuckerman) writes: >>>for the CDTV restrains my wife and me. > >>Commodore plans to release a CD-ROM drive that attaches to the expansion >>port of the A500. Known as the A690, it's been shown at a past CES and >>carries a retail price of $699. > >WHAAAAT? If I have read other posts in these newsgroups correctly, >this is more like the price for a CDTV!? Why would anybody want to >pay so much for the drive, if they could get the CDTV(with an Amiga in it) >for the same money? Surely, you are kidding? Or is the CDTV more >expensive than I thought? > It is $300 less than the price of CDTV. You shouldn't mix up list price and street price. > >-- >From the notorious > Jakob Gaardsted, Computer Science Department >Bed og arbejd ! University of Aarhus, Jylland (!) >(Pray and work!) AMIGA! pilgrim@daimi.aau.dk | I'd rather play Moria. Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/03/91)
In article <1991Jun2.232554.24741@daimi.aau.dk>, pilgrim@daimi.aau.dk (Jakob G}rdsted) writes: >zuckerma@aludra.usc.edu (David Zuckerman) writes: >>>for the CDTV restrains my wife and me. > >>Commodore plans to release a CD-ROM drive that attaches to the expansion >>port of the A500. Known as the A690, it's been shown at a past CES and >>carries a retail price of $699. > >WHAAAAT? If I have read other posts in these newsgroups correctly, >this is more like the price for a CDTV!? Why would anybody want to >pay so much for the drive, if they could get the CDTV(with an Amiga in it) >for the same money? Surely, you are kidding? Or is the CDTV more >expensive than I thought? > The retail price of the A690 is $699, while the retail price of the CDTV is $999 (U.S. prices). You have probably heard prices for the CDTV quoted in the $750 range -- these are discount prices. You will probably be able to find discount prices for the A690, too. Unfortunately, since Commodore probably will not sell as many A690s as CDTVs, the A690 may not be as heavily discounted as the CDTV. > >-- >From the notorious > Jakob Gaardsted, Computer Science Department >Bed og arbejd ! University of Aarhus, Jylland (!) >(Pray and work!) AMIGA! pilgrim@daimi.aau.dk | I'd rather play Moria. ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ ISU : The Home of the Goon / \ Who wants to Blow Up the Moon / -------------------------------------------------------
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/03/91)
In article <1991May31.093712.47965@cc.usu.edu>, sl87m@cc.usu.edu (The Barking Pumpkin Digital Gratification Ensemble) writes: > >I saw lots of new Amiga goodies at a presentation here at Utah State a couple >of weeks ago, including A3000UX and the CDTV. Since CDTV has been out for only a >few weeks, the information I'm curious to know may not be available: > >Would it be possible to hook up an autobooting CD-ROM drive to an A500, and >then be able to run CDTV titles? I see CDTV as having lots of potential, and >would like to get a couple of the titles already out. However, a lack of $$$ >for the CDTV restrains my wife and me. > Commodore is developing the A690 CD-ROM drive for the A500, with interfaces for other Amigas. The A690 will (from what I've read around here) carry a retail price of $699. One thing that concerns me, though, is the likely problem of compatibility with the CDTV. I've mentioned this before, and got no responses at all, so I will try again. The CDTV uses a modified 1.3 ROM. The 1.3 ROM is 256K, however the CDTV uses a 512K ROM. The extra 256K is filled with system software specific to the CDTV. This 256K of software may not be present on an Amiga with the Commodore CD-ROM drive, and certainly will not be present on an Amiga with any other CD-ROM drive. There are other features of the CDTV that also may not be present on an Amiga with a Commodore CD-ROM drive, but the extra 256K of ROM is the most important one. How is this problem going to be solved? Obviously there is a great potential for CDTV software using some of the routines in this extra 256K, and any software that does so may not run on an Amiga with the Commodore CD-ROM drive and will not run on Amiga with the Xetec CD-ROM drive. > >------- >TZMattaryey >sl87m@cc.usu.edu > ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ ISU : The Home of the Goon / \ Who wants to Blow Up the Moon / -------------------------------------------------------
tinyguy@cs.mcgill.ca (Yeo-Hoon BAE) (06/03/91)
In article <1991Jun3.054319.10135@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: > > How is this problem going to be solved? Obviously there is a great >potential for CDTV software using some of the routines in this extra >256K, and any software that does so may not run on an Amiga with the >Commodore CD-ROM drive and will not run on Amiga with the Xetec CD-ROM >drive. > > / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / So how come I heard from someone that every title for CDTV worked for A2000+Xetec combination except for Barney Bear thingy? This has been mentioned here on the net before, I'm not sure which group but I do remember clearly. -TG +-----------------------------------------------------------+-----------+ | Yeo-Hoon Bae tinyguy@homer.cs.mcgill.ca | /// | | Dept. Computer Science, McGill University, Canada | /// | |-----------------------------------------------------------| \\\/// | | Amiga2000 & 386SX | \XX/ | +-----------------------------------------------------------+-----------+
skank@iastate.edu (Skank George L) (06/03/91)
In article <1991Jun2.232554.24741@daimi.aau.dk> pilgrim@daimi.aau.dk (Jakob G}rdsted) writes: >zuckerma@aludra.usc.edu (David Zuckerman) writes: > >>Commodore plans to release a CD-ROM drive that attaches to the expansion >>port of the A500. Known as the A690, it's been shown at a past CES and >>carries a retail price of $699. > >WHAAAAT? If I have read other posts in these newsgroups correctly, >this is more like the price for a CDTV!? Why would anybody want to >pay so much for the drive, if they could get the CDTV(with an Amiga in it) >for the same money? Surely, you are kidding? Or is the CDTV more >expensive than I thought? > > Jakob Gaardsted, Computer Science Department CDTV will be about $1000 US, at least that's what I heard. If the price of the drive seems high, it's a new product, just like the CDTV. Commodore may be trying to promote the sale of CDTV's though, rather than A690's. Think about it. If more people own CDTV's, more people will buy them, and more vendors will press disks for them. With that kind of a price difference I'd probably buy a CDTV instead of an A690 too. --George -- George L. Skank |Five years ago I couldn't spell engineer. /// Senior, Electrical Engineering |Now I are one. /// Iowa State University, Ames, IA | \\\ /// skank@iastate.edu |Phone: (515) 233-2165 \\X//
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/04/91)
In article <1991Jun3.060223.8266@cs.mcgill.ca>, tinyguy@cs.mcgill.ca (Yeo-Hoon BAE) writes: >In article <1991Jun3.054319.10135@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: >> >> How is this problem going to be solved? Obviously there is a great >>potential for CDTV software using some of the routines in this extra >>256K, and any software that does so may not run on an Amiga with the >>Commodore CD-ROM drive and will not run on Amiga with the Xetec CD-ROM >>drive. >> >> / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / > >So how come I heard from someone that every title for CDTV worked >for A2000+Xetec combination except for Barney Bear thingy? This >has been mentioned here on the net before, I'm not sure which >group but I do remember clearly. You just proved my point. I think Commodore may be pushing CDTV software developers to avoid using code in this extra 256K, and to stay within the original 256K of 1.3 ROM. Developers of early CDTV software are probably going to follow Commodore's rules to the letter, or risk serious incompatibilities if Commodore suddenly changed something in the CDTV before releasing it. We can't always count on CDTV software developers always following the rules, however. Most of them do right now, yet there are a few programs that don't run on third-party CD-ROM products. As the CDTV catches on, developers of CDTV software make become more liberal in developing their software. The more developers who use code in this extra 256K of CDTV ROM, the more CDTV titles will become available that don't run on Amigas with CD-ROMs. > >-TG > > > >+-----------------------------------------------------------+-----------+ >| Yeo-Hoon Bae tinyguy@homer.cs.mcgill.ca | /// | >| Dept. Computer Science, McGill University, Canada | /// | >|-----------------------------------------------------------| \\\/// | >| Amiga2000 & 386SX | \XX/ | >+-----------------------------------------------------------+-----------+ ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ ISU : The Home of the Goon / \ Who wants to Blow Up the Moon / -------------------------------------------------------
James_Hastings-Trew@tptbbs.UUCP (James Hastings-Trew) (06/04/91)
In a message dated Mon 03 Jun 91 05:00, Taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (marc Barr wrote: TB> The CDTV uses a modified 1.3 ROM. The 1.3 ROM is 256K, however TB> the TB> CDTV uses a 512K ROM. The extra 256K is filled with system software TB> specific to the CDTV. This 256K of software may not be present on an TB> Amiga with the Commodore CD-ROM drive, and certainly will not be I am not sure here (just a guess) but the CDTV sports quite a few graphic screens (The CDTV logo screen, a full colour control panel screen, a full colour preferences screen, an animated title screen withthe CDTV logo twirling around in three-d, and a screen blanker mode (again, with the logo twirling around in three-d with rainbow colours.) These would have to be located somewhere - perhaps in the 256K of ROM which would make up the difference. Commodore seems to me to be a pretty smart company, at least when it comes to putting together compatible products.
greg@pfloyd.lonestar.org (Greg Harp) (06/04/91)
In article <1991Jun3.054319.10135@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > One thing that concerns me, though, is the likely problem of >compatibility with the CDTV. I've mentioned this before, and got no >responses at all, so I will try again. > > The CDTV uses a modified 1.3 ROM. The 1.3 ROM is 256K, however the >CDTV uses a 512K ROM. The extra 256K is filled with system software >specific to the CDTV. This 256K of software may not be present on an >Amiga with the Commodore CD-ROM drive, and certainly will not be >present on an Amiga with any other CD-ROM drive. There are other >features of the CDTV that also may not be present on an Amiga with >a Commodore CD-ROM drive, but the extra 256K of ROM is the most >important one. > > How is this problem going to be solved? Obviously there is a great >potential for CDTV software using some of the routines in this extra >256K, and any software that does so may not run on an Amiga with the >Commodore CD-ROM drive and will not run on Amiga with the Xetec CD-ROM >drive. It's very likely that the extra routines are simply new libraries that are part of the CDTV ROM. These libraries could be installed in the LIBS: directory on an A500 and things would work fine. The other stuff (special startup, graphics data for the CDTV display, etc) will probably be able to be worked around. At worst, something similar to ZKick could be used to cause the Amiga to reboot under the CDTV version of the ROM. This would be sort of a brute force method, but it should work. I'm sure that compatibility was an issue during the design of the CDTV. Therefore, I'm not worried... -- greg@pfloyd.lonestar.org----greg@pfloyd.UUCP----convex!egsner!pfloyd!greg chemist: n. Someone who wastes computer time on number-crunching when you'd far rather the machine were doing something more productive, such as working out anagrams of your name or printing Snoopy calendars or running life patterns. May or may not refer to someone who actually studies chemistry.
James_Hastings-Trew@tptbbs.UUCP (James Hastings-Trew) (06/04/91)
In a message dated Mon 03 Jun 91 05:00, Taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (marc Barr wrote: TB> One thing that concerns me, though, is the likely problem of TB> compatibility with the CDTV. I've mentioned this before, and got no TB> responses at all, so I will try again. TB> The CDTV uses a modified 1.3 ROM. The 1.3 ROM is 256K, however TB> the TB> CDTV uses a 512K ROM. The extra 256K is filled with system software TB> specific to the CDTV. This 256K of software may not be present on an TB> Amiga with the Commodore CD-ROM drive, and certainly will not be TB> present on an Amiga with any other CD-ROM drive. There are other The CDTV has numerous graphic screens - title screen, an animated waiting screen, a full colour control panel, a full colour preferences panel, and an animated "screen blanker" mode. I imagine this takes the lion's share of 256K...
wwarner@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Art Warner) (06/04/91)
In article <1991Jun3.054319.10135@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: >In article <1991May31.093712.47965@cc.usu.edu>, sl87m@cc.usu.edu (The Barking Pumpkin Digital Gratification Ensemble) writes: >> > One thing that concerns me, though, is the likely problem of >compatibility with the CDTV. I've mentioned this before, and got no >responses at all, so I will try again. > > The CDTV uses a modified 1.3 ROM. The 1.3 ROM is 256K, however the >CDTV uses a 512K ROM. The extra 256K is filled with system software >specific to the CDTV. This 256K of software may not be present on an >Amiga with the Commodore CD-ROM drive, and certainly will not be >present on an Amiga with any other CD-ROM drive. There are other >features of the CDTV that also may not be present on an Amiga with >a Commodore CD-ROM drive, but the extra 256K of ROM is the most >important one. > > How is this problem going to be solved? Obviously there is a great >potential for CDTV software using some of the routines in this extra >256K, and any software that does so may not run on an Amiga with the >Commodore CD-ROM drive and will not run on Amiga with the Xetec CD-ROM >drive. > I have "played" with and "looked inside" the CDTV pretty good and have found that the extra 256k Rom chip is mostly used for playing back CD+g disks and stores the CD user control functions that are on screen for CD+g. Other than that a friend of mine with the Xetec CD-Rom drive has ran every CD that we could get our greedy hands on without a flaw, excep one. Barney Bear would not run!!!!!! I know many of you fans out there are REAL dissappointed! Apparently this particular package is utilizing some of the available hardware tricks exclusive to CDTV. I wonder how many more do? The important ones, World Vista, Military Powersr(sp?), and encyclopedias ran without a glitch......YES, sound,pics,animation ran EXACTLY like a CDTV! -- William "Art" Warner //\ CBM Amiga Student Rep. \X/--\miga makes it happen.......... wwarner@en.ecn.purdue.edu IBM, Apple, Sun, & Next make it expensive!
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/04/91)
writes: >In article <1991Jun3.060223.8266@cs.mcgill.ca>, tinyguy@cs.mcgill.ca (Yeo-Hoon >>In article <1991Jun3.054319.10135@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu >>> >>> How is this problem going to be solved? Obviously there is a great >>>potential for CDTV software using some of the routines in this extra >>>256K, and any software that does so may not run on an Amiga with the >>>Commodore CD-ROM drive and will not run on Amiga with the Xetec CD-ROM >>>drive. >>> >>> / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / >> >>So how come I heard from someone that every title for CDTV worked >>for A2000+Xetec combination except for Barney Bear thingy? This >>has been mentioned here on the net before, I'm not sure which >>group but I do remember clearly. > > You just proved my point. I think Commodore may be pushing CDTV >software developers to avoid using code in this extra 256K, and to >stay within the original 256K of 1.3 ROM. Developers of early >CDTV software are probably going to follow Commodore's rules to the >letter, or risk serious incompatibilities if Commodore suddenly changed >something in the CDTV before releasing it. > Has anyone tried an A3000+Xetec on CDTV titles under 1.3 or 2.0? Just wondering....I just bought an Amiga 3000 as my primary use system and have my Amiga 2000 sitting in another room collecting dust...Actually my sister makes good use of it...But I wouldn't want to buy a CDROM drive and have to hook it up in her room to play something... -Ron -- C-UseNet V0.42b Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) DISCLAIMER: I say what I mean, and mean what I say.
sjorr@nsq.uucp (Stephen Orr) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun3.054319.10135@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: > > The CDTV uses a modified 1.3 ROM. The 1.3 ROM is 256K, however the >CDTV uses a 512K ROM. The extra 256K is filled with system software >specific to the CDTV. This 256K of software may not be present on an >Amiga with the Commodore CD-ROM drive, and certainly will not be >present on an Amiga with any other CD-ROM drive. There are other >features of the CDTV that also may not be present on an Amiga with >a Commodore CD-ROM drive, but the extra 256K of ROM is the most >important one. > Think of the extra ROM as an Autoboot ROM and I beleive the solution become aparent. Commodore will have to allow the A690 access to the Audio output of the Amiga (in order that mixed Amiga Audio/CD Audio be possible) and will also provide a driver/filesystem that is capable of generating input events (as the remote control generates these, and some stuff uses the new RAWKEY code (PLAY/FF/REW/STOP). I don't know how the gnelocking stuff will work. There is however a different problem with thge A690 running CDTV titles on an A500. The CDTV has 1Meg of chip memory, and as CDTV apps tend to be heavy on digitized sounds, it tends to be used. Many programs may refuse to run on a 512k chip memory machine. Stephen Orr SandIsoft
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/06/91)
In article <105@nsq.uucp>, sjorr@nsq.uucp (Stephen Orr) writes: >In article <1991Jun3.054319.10135@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: >> >> The CDTV uses a modified 1.3 ROM. The 1.3 ROM is 256K, however the >>CDTV uses a 512K ROM. The extra 256K is filled with system software >>specific to the CDTV. This 256K of software may not be present on an >>Amiga with the Commodore CD-ROM drive, and certainly will not be >>present on an Amiga with any other CD-ROM drive. There are other >>features of the CDTV that also may not be present on an Amiga with >>a Commodore CD-ROM drive, but the extra 256K of ROM is the most >>important one. >> >Think of the extra ROM as an Autoboot ROM and I beleive the solution >become aparent. Commodore will have to allow the A690 access to the Audio >output of the Amiga (in order that mixed Amiga Audio/CD Audio be possible) >and will also provide a driver/filesystem that is capable of generating >input events (as the remote control generates these, and some stuff uses >the new RAWKEY code (PLAY/FF/REW/STOP). I don't know how the gnelocking >stuff will work. There is however a different problem with thge A690 >running CDTV titles on an A500. The CDTV has 1Meg of chip memory, and >as CDTV apps tend to be heavy on digitized sounds, it tends to be used. >Many programs may refuse to run on a 512k chip memory machine. That takes us back to Commodore's titanically stupid practice of putting the 1M Agnus chips into 1M A500s, and then only wiring the Agnus chips to address 512K. It makes sense with 512K A500 machines, but makes no sense at all with the 1M A500P systems. As far as I know, Commodore is still doing this. > > Stephen Orr > SandIsoft > ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ ISU : The Home of the Goon / \ Who wants to Blow Up the Moon / -------------------------------------------------------
jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford) (06/06/91)
In article <1991Jun4.011109.4290@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: > > You just proved my point. I think Commodore may be pushing CDTV >software developers to avoid using code in this extra 256K, and to >stay within the original 256K of 1.3 ROM. Sorry, I don't think this can be right - surely, if C= didn't want people to use it, then they wouldn't have put it in? Why waste ROM space and development effort if you don't want people to use it? A lot simpler not to put it in the first place - that would make SURE they didn't use it :-) -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ | | Jerry Cullingford #include <std.disclaimer> +44 442 230000 | ,-|-- | jc@crosfield.co.uk (was jc@cel.co.uk) or jc@cel.uucp x3203 | \_|__ +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ \___/