rstevens@noao.edu (Rich Stevens) (03/28/91)
Anyone know where I can ftp the latest version of the PD ksh ? I found a copy at gargoyle.uchicago.edu, but most of the files in the distribution are almost 2 years old. I was wondering if there is something newer ? Rich Stevens (rstevens@noao.edu)
jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) (04/04/91)
A version of the public domain ksh was posted in alt.sources on December 12 of last year. It can be retrieved via anonymous ftp from the machine wuarchive.wustl.edu, in the directory /usenet/alt.sources/articles, in the compressed shar files 2265.Z, 2266.Z, 2268.Z, 2269.Z, 2270.Z, 2271.Z and 2272.Z. I found this out by logging into quiche.cs.mcgill.ca as "archie" and typing "set search exact" and then "prog alt.sources" to get a list of alt.sources archive sites. Then, I logged into wuarchive.wustl.edu, retrieved the file /usenet/alt.sources/Index, and searched through it for the words "ksh" and "korn". -- Jonathan Kamens USnail: MIT Project Athena 11 Ashford Terrace jik@Athena.MIT.EDU Allston, MA 02134 Office: 617-253-8085 Home: 617-782-0710
johna@a-k.boston.ma.us (John Adams) (04/05/91)
In article <1991Apr3.205157.21923@athena.mit.edu> jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes: > > A version of the public domain ksh was posted in alt.sources on December 12 >of last year. It can be retrieved via anonymous ftp from the machine >wuarchive.wustl.edu, in the directory /usenet/alt.sources/articles, in the >compressed shar files 2265.Z, 2266.Z, 2268.Z, 2269.Z, 2270.Z, 2271.Z and >2272.Z. > > I found this out by logging into quiche.cs.mcgill.ca as "archie" and typing >"set search exact" and then "prog alt.sources" to get a list of alt.sources >archive sites. Then, I logged into wuarchive.wustl.edu, retrieved the file >/usenet/alt.sources/Index, and searched through it for the words "ksh" and >"korn". It's nice that you can do all this collection using taxpayer networks. Could you act as an intermediary for those of us who are not attending taxpayer supported schools? When can we expect your reply? -- John Adams johna@a-k.boston.ma.us ...!world!iecc!a-k!johna
brister@decwrl.dec.com (James Brister) (04/05/91)
On 5 Apr 91 03:24:51 GMT, johna@a-k.boston.ma.us (John Adams) said: > In article <1991Apr3.205157.21923@athena.mit.edu> jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes: >> >> I found this out by logging into quiche.cs.mcgill.ca as "archie" [ stuff deleted...] > It's nice that you can do all this collection using taxpayer networks. There's more than just taxpayer supported equipment in all of this--a lot more. > Could > you act as an intermediary for those of us who are not attending taxpayer > supported schools? I wasn't aware that MIT is a taxpayer supported school (but feel free to correct me). And I seriously doubt Jonathen has the time to consider your request (even *if* he wanted to, which I doubt). I suggest you switch to a *real* school. (Taxpayer supported or not). > When can we expect your reply? Don't expect one. James -- James Brister brister@decwrl.dec.com DEC Western Software Lab., Palo Alto, CA {uunet,sun,pyramid}!decwrl!brister "Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions."
brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) (04/07/91)
In article <BRISTER.91Apr5102032@saratoga.decwrl.dec.com> brister@decwrl.dec.com (James Brister) writes: > I wasn't aware that MIT is a taxpayer supported school (but feel free to > correct me). Well, okay. MIT is a (largely) taxpayer-supported school. In fact, I don't know of any private university that doesn't receive most of its funding from the Department of Education. (Public universities may be entirely funded by the state; I'm not sure.) ---Dan
jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) (04/08/91)
In article <1991Apr5.032451.8153@a-k.boston.ma.us>, johna@a-k.boston.ma.us (John Adams) writes: |> It's nice that you can do all this collection using taxpayer networks. Could |> you act as an intermediary for those of us who are not attending taxpayer |> supported schools? When can we expect your reply? I'm seriously wondering what chip on your shoulder prompted you to ask this in such a hostile manner. I'm terribly sorry that you don't have access to the same computing resources that I do, but that's life. In an ideal world, everyone would have access to the same resources, but our world is not ideal, and whining about that (and, given the way it was worded, I cannot help but perceive your question as whining) is not going to change it. In any case, both "archie" and anonymous ftp to wuarchive.wustl.edu are accessible to anyone who has E-mail access to them. The former, by sending mail to archie@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (send a message with body "help" for more information), and the latter, by using the bitftp server (bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu -- send a message with body "help" for more information). Furthermore, archives@hrc.UUCP also archives several newsgroups, including alt.sources; for more information about it, send mail to hrc!archives with contents send path uunet!<your host name>!<your username> send help All of these methods are accessible even to people "who are not attending taxpayer supported schools." So it seems to me that you don't need me to act as an "intermediary," and I don't intend to do so. -- Jonathan Kamens USnail: MIT Project Athena 11 Ashford Terrace jik@Athena.MIT.EDU Allston, MA 02134 Office: 617-253-8085 Home: 617-782-0710
johna@a-k.boston.ma.us (John Adams) (04/09/91)
In article <1991Apr8.032244.14401@athena.mit.edu> jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes: >In article <1991Apr5.032451.8153@a-k.boston.ma.us>, I write: >|> It's nice that you can do all this collection using taxpayer networks. Could >|> you act as an intermediary for those of us who are not attending taxpayer >|> supported schools? When can we expect your reply? > > I'm seriously wondering what chip on your shoulder prompted you to ask this >in such a hostile manner. I asked jik in email which words he found hostile. I received the reply that I was "rude and condescending". So I'm asking the net. In regard to my original article (included in its entirety above): First, I compliment the collection methods. Second, I ask if others can benefit. Third, I ask if a reply will be forthcoming. Does anyone else see this article as "hostile"? What would you have written? My dictionary defines "rude" as "ignorance of or indifference to good form". Personally, I think "good form", like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Webster defines "condescending" as "lowering from one's rank or station in dealing with an inferior". Not my choice of words to describe my posting. -- John Adams johna@a-k.boston.ma.us ...!world!iecc!a-k!johna
asg@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Bruce Varney) (04/09/91)
In article <1991Apr9.004636.18785@a-k.boston.ma.us> johna@a-k.boston.ma.us (John Adams) writes: }In article <1991Apr8.032244.14401@athena.mit.edu> jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes: }>In article <1991Apr5.032451.8153@a-k.boston.ma.us>, I write: }>|> It's nice that you can do all this collection using taxpayer networks. Could }>|> you act as an intermediary for those of us who are not attending taxpayer }>|> supported schools? When can we expect your reply? }> }> I'm seriously wondering what chip on your shoulder prompted you to ask this }>in such a hostile manner. } }I asked jik in email which words he found hostile. I received the reply }that I was "rude and condescending". So I'm asking the net. }In regard to my original article (included in its entirety above): } First, I compliment the collection methods. } Second, I ask if others can benefit. } Third, I ask if a reply will be forthcoming. }Does anyone else see this article as "hostile"? What would you have written? While I have had my differences with Jon, and never expected to support HIS calling SOMEONE ELSE rude and condescending, I must nevertheless come to his aid in this matter. Your statements were most certainly inflammitory and biting. Maybe your intent was not to be sarcastic, but the way in which you worded your "compliment" lends itself to that interpretation. I, for one, however that the bite was quite intended, and I agree that you are rude. Obviously you have not been briefed in nettiquette yet. The computer systems at 'tax-payer-supported' schools more than pay for themselves with the amount of research work and teaching for which they can be used. Do you ride the bus/subway in your city? That is tax-payer supported, and I don't see anyone chastizing you for using it to get to the grocery store. If you are looking for a place to blame poorly-spent tax money, there are many more appropriate places to look - such as bilogy labs which are funded to study the mating habits of the Africa Bullfrog (YES - $4 million for this last year!!). } }My dictionary defines "rude" as "ignorance of or indifference to good form". }Personally, I think "good form", like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. "good form" means not comming to OUR forum and criticizing us for doing something which is completely within the rules. }Webster defines "condescending" as "lowering from one's rank or station }in dealing with an inferior". Not my choice of words to describe my posting. I agree - certainly none of us are inferior to you! You need more than a dictionary to communicate. Maybe you should consider taking some type of course in communication. Maybe you should also consider taking a course in good manners. } }-- }John Adams johna@a-k.boston.ma.us ...!world!iecc!a-k!johna As always, The Grand Master --------- ### ## Courtesy of Bruce Varney ### # aka -> The Grand Master # asg@sage.cc.purdue.edu ### ##### # PUCC ### # ;-) # # ;'> # ##
john@chook.ua.oz (John Warburton) (04/10/91)
In reading the Korn Shell book by David Korn, page 4 gives you a bunch of phone numbers aroiund the world where you can get source code to ksh from AT&T via the "AT&T UNIX System Toolchest software distributiuon system". So, from this I would assume that it is in the public domain... So, is it possible to get it straight from AT&T on the Internet?? Am I making some foolish assumption here - or can I pick up the official source to ksh out there?? Thanks in advance John John Warburton Phone : +61 8 228 5583 Department of Computer Science Telex : UNIVAD AA89141 University of Adelaide Fax : +61 8 223 1206 GPO Box 498 Adelaide SA 5001 ACSnet : john@cs.adelaide.edu.au
jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) (04/10/91)
In article <2797@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>, john@chook.ua.oz (John Warburton) writes: |> In reading the Korn Shell book by David Korn, page 4 gives you a bunch of |> phone numbers aroiund the world where you can get source code to ksh from |> AT&T via the "AT&T UNIX System Toolchest software distributiuon system". |> |> So, from this I would assume that it is in the public domain... |> So, is it possible to get it straight from AT&T on the Internet?? I don't understand the logic you're implying here. Why can you conclude from the fact that you can call a phone number in order to arrange to get source code, that the source code is public domain? In fact, when you call the phone number you have to arrange to *pay AT&T money* to get the source code. AT&T's ksh is not in the public domain. There is, however, a public domain version of ksh, which is what we've been discussing here. I won't mention how to get it again, since I just did that a few days ago :-) -- Jonathan Kamens USnail: MIT Project Athena 11 Ashford Terrace jik@Athena.MIT.EDU Allston, MA 02134 Office: 617-253-8085 Home: 617-782-0710
oz@yunexus.yorku.ca (Ozan Yigit) (04/10/91)
In article <2797@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> john@chook.ua.oz (John Warburton) writes: >So, from this I would assume that it is in the public domain... >So, is it possible to get it straight from AT&T on the Internet?? The assumption does not follow. The ToolChest is a service through which AT&T can distribute software that they may or may not wish to support, and everything in it has a price [but usually not large], and the source is available. Ksh is now being bundled with various systems, for example ULTRIX. I would not be surprised to see it in the next release of SunOS as well. The public domain ksh (originally by Erik Gisin) is a subset of ksh, something like a minimalist version. By and large, it works. oz --- Ps: If you need the toolchest description of ksh, drop me a line. --- We only know ... what we know, and | Internet: oz@nexus.yorku.ca that is very little. -- Dan Rather | UUCP: utzoo/utai!yunexus!oz
ken@racerx.UUCP (Ken Hardy) (04/11/91)
In article <2797@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>, john@chook.ua.oz (John Warburton) writes: > In reading the Korn Shell book by David Korn, page 4 gives you a bunch of > phone numbers aroiund the world where you can get source code to ksh from > AT&T via the "AT&T UNIX System Toolchest software distributiuon system". > > So, from this I would assume that it is in the public domain... > So, is it possible to get it straight from AT&T on the Internet?? There is a per-item charge, and, I think, an initial registration fee. I no longer have the logs of the dial-in session I did some time back to the AT&T toolchest, or I'd post the charges. You can dial in and browse free of charge, but the charges once you want something are not insignificant -- several hundred for something as usefull as ksh, I recall. For those not in the know, the AT&T Toolchest is a bulletin-board system wherein AT&T has gathered some of the things developed internally and found useful, and offered them for sale. I have a list I saved when I dialed in, but it is in hardcopy format, and I don't feel like typing it in. -- Ken Hardy uunet!racerx!ken ken@racerx.UUCP
fff@pcsbbs.UUCP (Frank Fiamingo) (04/11/91)
John, I saw your original posting. Since you are asking, I interpreted it the same way Jonathan did. How was your reference to "taxpayer suported" supposed to be taken. It sure sounded like you had a bone to pick with someone. I have only been on the net a short time. In that time I have seen numerous helpful postings from Jonathan Kamens. I have filed his name away as a reference for when I get to the point where I am able to ask an intelligent question. If your meaning was misunderstood, please enlighten me. I think it is quite telling that Jonathan answered your question in spite of the tone of your request. Again, this is just my opinion since you asked. Frank Fiamingo
harrison@necssd.NEC.COM (Mark Harrison) (04/11/91)
In article <2797@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>, john@chook.ua.oz (John Warburton) writes: > In reading the Korn Shell book by David Korn, page 4 gives you a bunch of > phone numbers aroiund the world where you can get source code to ksh from > AT&T via the "AT&T UNIX System Toolchest software distributiuon system". > > So, from this I would assume that it is in the public domain... > So, is it possible to get it straight from AT&T on the Internet?? > > Am I making some foolish assumption here - or can I pick up the official source > to ksh out there?? The number allows access to their online browsing/ordering system. Once you have executed a Toolchest Licence, it is a pretty slick system. When you want to buy something, you log in, place your order, giving them a PO number. They deliver the package overnight via uucp, and send you a bill in the mail. It works very well, *once* you have been able to get the licensing stuff. I did this at two companies, and in both cases it took over a month. Once you have this, the toolchest administrator is very efficient. In any case, try browsing the toolchest... It's pretty interesting. -- Mark Harrison harrison@ssd.dl.nec.com (214)518-5050 {necntc, cs.utexas.edu}!necssd!harrison standard disclaimers apply...
mef@Unify.com (Marvin Fenner) (04/12/91)
] >In article <1991Apr5.032451.8153@a-k.boston.ma.us>, I write:
... reformatted original text ...
] >|> It's nice that you can do all this collection using taxpayer
] >|> networks. Could you act as an intermediary for those of us who
] >|> are not attending taxpayer supported schools? When can we
] >|> expect your reply?
] >
...
] Does anyone else see this article as "hostile"? What would you have written?
...
Since you asked... Let's just say your tone is somewhat
antagonistic. How about this:
It's nice that you can do all this collection at your site. Could
you act as an intermediary for those of us who don't have access?
Thanks in advance for your speedy reply.
ps - does your school receive gov't sponsored research grants? If
so, you ain't non-taxpayer supported my friend. One of the largest
private taxpayer supported schools in the U.S. is located in and
around Menlo Park, CA. (but we won't name names...)
] --
] John Adams johna@a-k.boston.ma.us ...!world!iecc!a-k!johna
--
Marv Fenner | <Disclaimer not available at time of printing>
Unify Corporation |
Sacramento, CA | "There was an old lady who lived on the hill,
mef@unify.Com | and if she's not gone, she lives there still."
| - G. GooseQQ11@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (Alan Thew) (04/13/91)
In article <22341@yunexus.YorkU.CA>, oz@yunexus.yorku.ca (Ozan Yigit) says: > ..... > >Ksh is now being bundled with various systems, for example ULTRIX. >I would not be surprised to see it in the next release of SunOS as well. > >The public domain ksh (originally by Erik Gisin) is a subset of ksh, >something like a minimalist version. By and large, it works. The opinions I've heard say that the PD version is more like an improved sh or a very small subset of ksh. OK if you want a shell for nothing but not if you want something even close to the 'real thing'
rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) (04/13/91)
In article <2797@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> john@chook.ua.oz (John Warburton) writes: >In reading the Korn Shell book by David Korn, page 4 gives you a bunch of >phone numbers aroiund the world where you can get source code to ksh from >AT&T via the "AT&T UNIX System Toolchest software distributiuon system". >So, from this I would assume that it is in the public domain... >So, is it possible to get it straight from AT&T on the Internet?? >Am I making some foolish assumption here - or can I pick up the official source >to ksh out there?? AT&T will gladly UUCP the sources of ksh to you, if you pay the $10000 source license fee up front. There is no free lunch. Rick Kelly rmk@rmkhome.UUCP frog!rmkhome!rmk rmk@frog.UUCP
sjg@melb.bull.oz.au (Simon J Gerraty) (04/19/91)
In <91103.005514QQ11@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK> QQ11@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (Alan Thew) writes: >In article <22341@yunexus.YorkU.CA>, oz@yunexus.yorku.ca (Ozan Yigit) says: >>Ksh is now being bundled with various systems, for example ULTRIX. >>I would not be surprised to see it in the next release of SunOS as well. >> >>The public domain ksh (originally by Erik Gisin) is a subset of ksh, >>something like a minimalist version. By and large, it works. >The opinions I've heard say that the PD version is more like an >improved sh or a very small subset of ksh. OK if you want a shell >for nothing but not if you want something even close to the 'real >thing' Well I'm using the that PD ksh on some sun's. I use a real ksh on our Bull DPX/2. After adding a few simple features to the PD shell (like editing lines longer than the screen width, and retrieving words from the previous command line). I switch between the DPX/2 and sun all day (side by side on the sun's console) and its hard to tell the difference. Mind you I _only_ write scripts for /bin/sh, so I guess I wouldn't notice some of the missing features in the PD ksh. For interactive work its fine. Now if only I could find who posted the sources I have modified so that my updates can be shared... -- Simon J. Gerraty <sjg@melb.bull.oz.au> #include <disclaimer,_witty_comment>
sjg@melb.bull.oz.au (Simon J Gerraty) (04/22/91)
In <1991Apr18.235605.29857@melb.bull.oz.au> I wrote: >In <91103.005514QQ11@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK> QQ11@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (Alan Thew) writes: >>The opinions I've heard say that the PD version is more like an >>improved sh or a very small subset of ksh. OK if you want a shell >>for nothing but not if you want something even close to the 'real >>thing' >Well I'm using the that PD ksh on some sun's. I use a real ksh >on our Bull DPX/2. After adding a few simple features to the PD >shell (like editing lines longer than the screen width, and >retrieving words from the previous command line). I switch >between the DPX/2 and sun all day (side by side on the sun's >console) and its hard to tell the difference. Boy did that get a response! Thanks to all those who expressed an interest in my updates. I will package the lot up into a complete tar file, as well as some patch files and make it available for anon-ftp. I will post here when it is ready (a bug seems to have worked its way back into edit.c...) it might take a few days until I have time to look at it. -- Simon J. Gerraty <sjg@melb.bull.oz.au> #include <disclaimer,_witty_comment>