jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) (10/26/90)
A local company is going unix in a big way and one of the MIS Dept.
managers posed a question I was unable to answer. They have AS400's and
a couple of VAXs for which they have "operators". The question was: What
is the difference between a system administrator and an operator? They are
trying to figure out the definition of system administrator in relation
to what an operator does. Can anyone give me an idea of how to answer this
question? I'm not familiar with what an "operator" does, so I couldn't
answer the question. Any suggestions would be welcome.
---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---
Jesse W. Asher Phone: (901)382-1609
6196-1 Macon Rd., Suite 200, Memphis, TN 38134
UUCP: {fedeva,chromc,rutgers}!dynasys!jessea
-> No problem is so formidable that you can't just walk away from it.felps@convex.com (Robert Felps) (10/26/90)
In <680@dynasys.UUCP> jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes: >A local company is going unix in a big way and one of the MIS Dept. >managers posed a question I was unable to answer. They have AS400's and >a couple of VAXs for which they have "operators". The question was: What >is the difference between a system administrator and an operator? They are >trying to figure out the definition of system administrator in relation >to what an operator does. Can anyone give me an idea of how to answer this >question? I'm not familiar with what an "operator" does, so I couldn't >answer the question. Any suggestions would be welcome. In my own words, A UNIX Operator, "THE GRUNT", often answer this way. Performs the menial/mundane tasks of system administration. May also perform techinician type tasks. For example, Shutdown and booting Backups File System Checks User Account Administration Mail checks(from cron), the S.A. should automate! Terminal Connections/Setup Printer Connections/Setup Basic User Support(Optional) etc. In the mainframe world an operator is a "tape monkey" plus console request handler. Of if you will, a console monitor. A UNIX System Administrator, "THE TRAIL BLAZER", often on fire him/herself. Should always carry a phillips & flat bladded screw driver, where mountain boots, have a spare ding-dong & twinkie, keep tinker bell in shirt pocket, carry a lamb and lumber in tool box, wire clippers in hip pocket, box of paper on sholder, reference manual under left arm, and resume in briefcase. Performs any tasks related to keeping the UNIX system operating smoothly. Usually performs the installation, setup and initial operation of all hardware and software. For example, Shutdown and booting Backups File System Checks User Account Administration Mail checks(from cron), the S.A. should automate! Terminal Connections/Setup Printer Connections/Setup -plus- Shell Programming(Optional but hard to survive without) C Programming(Optional but often helpful) Security Issues UUCP TCP/IP-Ethernet Advanced User Support Utilities Expert(Optional but VERY useful) System Recovery(Disk recoveries) Disaster Recovery Hardware Upgrades Software Upgrades Tuning and Performance Capacity Planning Keep contracts up-to-date Purchase New Equipment Local system configurations(sysgen) Local documentation etc. The larger the shop the more likly it seems you have operator(s) and system administrator(s) with separate job descriptions. But it is all up to the company and boss. I've been both!!! Thanks, Robert Felps felps@convex.com Convex Computer Corp OS System Specialist 3000 Waterview Parkway Tech. Assistant Ctr Richardson, Tx. 75083 1(800) 952-0379
de5@de5.ctd.ornl.gov (Sill D E) (10/26/90)
In article <680@dynasys.UUCP>, jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes: >The question was: What >is the difference between a system administrator and an operator? A system administrator knows what he's doing? Oh, you mean it's not a joke? :-) Seriously, the system administrator is the one that tells the operator what to do and when to do it. In a short seminar I gave recently on workstation system administration, I defined system administration as: "The set of scheduled, unplanned, one-time, and periodic tasks that must be performed in order to provide a secure, reliable, and available computing environment for a group of users." This definition includes everything from procurement of hardware, software, and maintenance, to performing backups, installing and configuring, and troubleshooting. The operator is a tool of the system administrator--if he's lucky enough to have one. Operators are generally responsible for day-to-day operations such as backups/restores, adding/removing users, etc. In short, the system administrator is the "brains" and the operator is the "braun". -- Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov) Martin Marietta Energy Systems Workstation Support
andy@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Pinhead@Spikes) (10/27/90)
~In article <680@dynasys.UUCP>, jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes:
~>The question was: What
~>is the difference between a system administrator and an operator?
And then Dave Sill <de5@ornl.gov> articulates...
~The operator is a tool of the system administrator--if he's lucky
~enough to have one. Operators are generally responsible for
~day-to-day operations such as backups/restores, adding/removing users,
~etc.
~
~In short, the system administrator is the "brains" and the operator
~is the "braun".
Or, if you will, the System(s) Administrator formulates
the policy of which the Operator implements. Also, the
admin is usually the person who puts there name on the
dotted line saying "I am responsible for this machine."
aBp.
~
~--
~Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)
~Martin Marietta Energy Systems
~Workstation Support
--
Andy Pippin \ How to cope with reality (AKA graduation):
andy@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU \ *> Spike's Place <*
---------- ----------
Going free-agent in 231 days!!! russell@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Russell J Fulton;ccc032u) (10/29/90)
jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes: >A local company is going unix in a big way and one of the MIS Dept. >managers posed a question I was unable to answer. They have AS400's and >a couple of VAXs for which they have "operators". The question was: What >is the difference between a system administrator and an operator? They are >trying to figure out the definition of system administrator in relation >to what an operator does. Can anyone give me an idea of how to answer this >question? I'm not familiar with what an "operator" does, so I couldn't >answer the question. Any suggestions would be welcome. In IBM world the system administrator is called a system programmer or sysprog! In a lot of small UNIX sites the job of operator and administrator are combined. (You could remove UNIX from previous sentence and it would be more general and still correct!.) Most larger sites split the job into two with a lower paid operator to do the donkey work and the sys-admin (sys-prog) to do the rest. Other posting have covered details of the job descriptions so I won't elaborate. Cheers, Russell. --
seanf@sco.COM (Sean Fagan) (10/29/90)
In article <680@dynasys.UUCP> jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes: >The question was: What >is the difference between a system administrator and an operator? (My experience and opinions here:) An operator is someone who mounts tapes, runs the printer, etc. Just, in general, makes sure that whatever the machine wants, it's got. Pretty boring. (S)he will also run backups, most likely, of course. The system administrator, on the other hand, will schedule the backups, and, in general, make sure that the system, as a whole, is happy, and won't barf on anyone at any moment. (S)he will set and enforce quotas and other restrictions or permissions, to set the system's "attitude." -- -----------------+ Sean Eric Fagan | "*Never* knock on Death's door: ring the bell and seanf@sco.COM | run away! Death hates that!" uunet!sco!seanf | -- Dr. Mike Stratford (Matt Frewer, "Doctor, Doctor") (408) 458-1422 | Any opinions expressed are my own, not my employers'.
kenny@thomas.com (Kenny Paul) (10/30/90)
jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes: >A local company is going unix in a big way and one of the MIS Dept. >managers posed a question I was unable to answer. They have AS400's and >a couple of VAXs for which they have "operators". The question was: What >is the difference between a system administrator and an operator? That's an easy one... A REAL System Administrator stays as far away from a company's MIS Department as possible. :-) __Lizzard.
spoelhof@kodak.kodak.com (Gordon Spoelhof) (10/30/90)
In article <1990Oct26.160226.29754@cs.utk.edu> Dave Sill <de5@ornl.gov> writes: > >In short, the system administrator is the "brains" and the operator >is the "braun". > I do not wish to argue, but the tone here is a bit harsh. I have worked as a consultant to various sites and found no two the same. In most cases, systems administration is a distributed function - between the systems, operations, applications, and data communities. Successful shops/groups share responsibilities and act as a team this brains/brawn stuff no longer washes... Sincerely, Gordon Spoelhof, Computer Technology Consultant Eastman Kodak Co. - Information Technology Management Disclaimer: "Neither my wife nor my employer endorse opinion according to Gordi..." Internet: spoelhof@Kodak.COM EKPROFS: vaes07 --lockovm2 Telephone: 716-781-5576 Secretary: 716-724-1365 (Sharon Hancock) FAX: 716-781-5799 US Mail: Gordon Spoelhof CIS/ITM 2-9-KO Eastman Kodak Co 343 State Street Rochester, NY 14650-0724
gary@sci34hub.UUCP (Gary Heston) (10/31/90)
In article <680@dynasys.UUCP> jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes: >A local company is going unix in a big way and one of the MIS Dept. >managers posed a question I was unable to answer. They have AS400's and >a couple of VAXs for which they have "operators". The question was: What >is the difference between a system administrator and an operator? They are >trying to figure out the definition of system administrator in relation >to what an operator does. Can anyone give me an idea of how to answer this >question? I'm not familiar with what an "operator" does, so I couldn't >answer the question. Any suggestions would be welcome. An operator has duties on the level of tape changing, vacuuming out printers, changing printer ribbons, refilling paper, and responding to minor error messages and console instructions (when to change tapes or disc packs). Operators generally do not install software, or have more than cursory power when logged on, i.e., they're not root. They don't make major configuration changes (sometimes, not even minor ones), the manufacturers' service rep actually fixes things. In the case of VAXs, some operations people do get to the point of installing packages and boards, but not AS400s. In those types of environments, software config and installation is generally handled by systems analysts. A UNIX sysadmin is a cross between an operator, service rep, and systems analyst. Sysadmins generally have lots of power thru their logins (root, for example) and have a much deeper involvement with how the machine works, configuring it, and troubleshooting it. When a UNIX machine print spooler clogs, a sysadmin tracks down the problem and fixes it. When an AS400 stops printing, the operator calls IBM. -- Gary Heston System Mismanager and technoflunky uunet!sci34hub!gary or My opinions, not theirs. SCI Systems, Inc. gary@sci34hub.sci.com The sysadmin sees all, knows all, and doesn't tell the boss who's updating their resumes.... This .sig Copyright G. L. Heston, 1990
mpd@anomaly.sbs.com (Michael P. Deignan) (11/01/90)
jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes: >The question was: What >is the difference between a system administrator and an operator? About $25k a year in salary. In actuality though, all operators do is monitor and tune the daily performance of the machine. A Systems Administrator is more responsible for the overall administration of the machine, including new software/hardware installation, disaster recovery plans, etc. More management oriented tasks. MD -- -- Michael P. Deignan / Introducing... -- Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com / MommyCalc: A Spreadsheet so -- UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd / simple, even a woman can learn -- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347 / how to use it....
libes@cme.nist.gov (Don Libes) (11/03/90)
In article <4143@anomaly.sbs.com> mpd@anomaly.sbs.com (Michael P. Deignan) writes: >The difference between a system administrator and an operator? >About $25k a year in salary. >In actuality though, all operators do is monitor ... the machine. >A Systems Administrator is more responsible for the overall administration >of the machine, including new software/hardware installation, disaster >recovery plans, etc. More management oriented tasks. I was employed as an operator for a public-access service that required real-time action upon system failure. It was my job to sit in front of a console and wait for the system to misbehave, and when it did, to fix it. There weren't many instructions, this being UNIX. (I.e., we were expected to be understand cryptic kernel blithering, as well as the application error messages.) Diagnosing never-before-seen problems, coming up with the right fix - all at 5AM under public scrutiny and intense pressure from management (who phoned us frequently from home) was challenging. The operators were paid more than the system administrators (our bosses) or the system programmers. Most of the operators were all extremely knowledgable UNIX hackers. Admittedly, we were bored out of our minds 95% of the time and 12 hour shifts sucked too, but I guess it was fun for the money we raked in. (When it was slow, I programmed for a different job at the same time, another now-famous guy edited a UNIX magazine). Don Libes libes@cme.nist.gov ...!uunet!cme-durer!libes
morgan@ms.uky.edu (Wes Morgan) (11/07/90)
In article <680@dynasys.UUCP> jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes: >A local company is going unix in a big way and one of the MIS Dept. >managers posed a question I was unable to answer. They have AS400's and >a couple of VAXs for which they have "operators". The question was: What >is the difference between a system administrator and an operator? They are >trying to figure out the definition of system administrator in relation >to what an operator does. Can anyone give me an idea of how to answer this >question? I'm not familiar with what an "operator" does, so I couldn't >answer the question. Any suggestions would be welcome. Since I'm currently serving as both operator and system administrator for a UNIX site, I thought I'd take a stab at this one. Therefore, here's *one person's* opinion of the division of duties: Operator: - Mounts tapes/datasets/peripherals/disk partitions - Manages daily tasks, such as backups - Manages peripherals on a hardware level - Handles peripheral output for those devices not user-accessible <plotters, special purpose devices> - Daily supervision of facilities, including such things as DASDs, peripherals, and perhaps network connections - Generally isolated from users; deals primarily with staff - Usually is *not* expected to write code of any sort System Administrator: - Primary daily concern is resource utilization - Reviews accounting data, adjusting system for optimization - Integrates new software/hardware with existing environment - Assists in formulation of policies and procedures - Implements said policies and procedures - Responsible for resource allocation <disk partitions, quotas, and the like> - Manages the user base <additions, deletions, in-house transfers, et cetera> - Large responsibility for security - Deals with users in the "can we do this?" type of situation, i.e. system/software configuration questions - Usually somewhat of a "senior consultant"; the last refuge of the confused user 8) - Writes code as necessary to implement above functions Of course, I'm assuming the existance of systems programmers and user consultants in this scenario........currently, two people are filling all four of these theoretical positions at my site.....8( Comments? -- | Wes Morgan, not speaking for | {any major site}!ukma!ukecc!morgan | | the University of Kentucky's | morgan@engr.uky.edu | | Engineering Computing Center | morgan%engr.uky.edu@UKCC.BITNET | Lint is the compiler's only means of dampening the programmer's ego.
john@newave.UUCP (John A. Weeks III) (11/16/90)
In article <680@dynasys.UUCP> jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes: > The question was: What is the difference between a system administrator > and an operator? System admin manages the day to day aspects of computing resources. This includes political aspects of running a system, allocating & policing available resources, and monitoring performance. An operator pushes the buttons and flips the tapes when needed to keep the system running. IMHO. Some places that I have seen treat operators as $4.00/hour flunkies, and I have also seen system administrators in management positions in the $60-$80,000 range. -john- -- =============================================================================== John A. Weeks III (612) 942-6969 john@newave.mn.org NeWave Communications ...uunet!rosevax!bungia!wd0gol!newave!john ===============================================================================