operator@cs.exeter.ac.uk (Sue Charles) (11/20/90)
We at the moment have a QIC-11 tape drive on our sun and are backing up onto 3M DC300A -300ft Tapes DC300XL/P 450ft Tapes DC600A 600ft Tapes using the maximum tape capacity. In the new year we will be installing a QIC-150 drive. Which (if any) of the above tapes would I still be able to use read ,read/write. Or is it a case of scrapping the lot! and using the new 150mbytes data tapes. If any one has a past experience of the above scenario I would be grateful to hear it. thanks SUE.
peda@simplicity.Stanford.EDU (Bill Codding) (11/22/90)
In article <OPERATOR.90Nov20104952@expya.cs.exeter.ac.uk> operator@cs.exeter.ac.uk (Sue Charles) writes:
We at the moment have a QIC-11 tape drive on our sun and are backing up
onto 3M DC300A -300ft Tapes
DC300XL/P 450ft Tapes
DC600A 600ft Tapes using the maximum tape capacity.
In the new year we will be installing a QIC-150 drive.
Which (if any) of the above tapes would I still be able to use
If you want some really confusing, conflicting information on this
subject, call the 3M hotline. Want to be more confused? Call the
drive manufacturer.
We had similar questions. After what amounts to several
hours of experiments and being on the phone with the above goons,
the following information finally falls out.
1) Using our Archive 2150S QIC-150 drive (Stellar GS1000), we can
read AND write QIC-150, read ONLY QIC-24, and neither read NOR write
QIC-11.
2) Our Sun-3 was able to write both QIC-11 (nrst0) and QIC-24 (nrst8).
Only the higher density is readable in the QIC-150 drive. I believe
Sun-2's only wrote QIC-11.
3) 3M said you should not use more than one type of tape in a drive,
as the heads "wear in" to one type; using another can cause reliability
problems.
a) 3M explicitly said to not combine DC600A's and DC300XL/P's
on one drive. Upon pressing them for details, however, the two seem
to be the same form factor, same thickness vinyl, just a different
coating/oersted rating. I find it hard to believe you cant mix
different _coatings_ in your drive.... Archive says it is OK to
read the occasional DC300XL/P in your QIC-150 drive, though.
b) Archive says you can use either DC600A or DC6150 on their QIC-150.
They say the physical medium is the same, so no wear problems. However,
the 6150 has an additional capstan (roller) and a wider opening in the
plastic housing. The tape identification marks tell the tape drive
to write more tracks on the 6150, since the housing hole allows more head
clearance. Thus, 120MB on a 600A, and 150MB on a 6150.
c) The 6150 is actually Archive's recommended tape for the QIC-150; the
600A was originally designed for a lower capacity drive (hence the "60MB"
marking on the case) but will work writing fewer tracks.
d) Archive says you cannot interchange [DC6150/DC600A] and the DC6250.
The 6250 is thinner tape, and causes the head to wear more (or less??)
convex-ly.
4) 3M sometimes gives different MB ratings to tapes which have the same form
factor, coating, thickness, etc; the only difference being that they
are marketed for use on drives which write different numbers of tracks!
Whatta waste of brain space. This isn't even my job.
I'm charging them $10,000,000 for my time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Codding (415)493-3554 (w)
Research Engineer (415)751-5484 (h)
P.E.D.A. peda@simplicity.Stanford.EDU
------------------------------------------------------------------------cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) (11/24/90)
In article <OPERATOR.90Nov20104952@expya.cs.exeter.ac.uk> operator@cs.exeter.ac.uk (Sue Charles) writes: >In the new year we will be installing a QIC-150 drive. >Which (if any) of the above tapes would I still be able to use >read ,read/write. You will be able to use the DC600A tapes. Depending upon which device you used to write them (/dev/rst8 writes in QIC-24 format, if I remember correctly) you should be able to read them on the new drive. If you erase the DC600A, you will also be able to use it for writing on the QIC-150 drive. The output will be written in QIC120 format (which will give you 120MB per tape). >Or is it a case of scrapping the lot! and using the new 150mbytes >data tapes. If you are going to buy some new tapes, but DC6250s which will store 250MB in QIC-150 format (longer tape) -- Conor P. Cahill (703)430-9247 Virtual Technologies, Inc., uunet!virtech!cpcahil 46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160 Sterling, VA 22170
benson@odi.com (Benson I. Margulies) (11/26/90)
In article <1990Nov24.124017.11376@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.UUCP (Conor P. Cahill) writes: >In article <OPERATOR.90Nov20104952@expya.cs.exeter.ac.uk> operator@cs.exeter.ac.uk (Sue Charles) writes: >>In the new year we will be installing a QIC-150 drive. >>Which (if any) of the above tapes would I still be able to use >>read ,read/write. > >You will be able to use the DC600A tapes. Depending upon which device >you used to write them (/dev/rst8 writes in QIC-24 format, if I remember >correctly) you should be able to read them on the new drive. > >If you erase the DC600A, you will also be able to use it for writing on >the QIC-150 drive. The output will be written in QIC120 format (which >will give you 120MB per tape). > Not all tape drives seems to support QIC120 format. Not all tape drives give write errors when writing tapes on the DC600A if they don't support QIC120. I am not at all certain about the ARCHIVE VIPER 150 on my solbourne, or the wangtek. Best to perform read tests. -- Benson I. Margulies
peda@simplicity.Stanford.EDU (Bill Codding) (11/27/90)
In article <1990Nov24.124017.11376@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes: In article <OPERATOR.90Nov20104952@expya.cs.exeter.ac.uk> operator@cs.exeter.ac.uk (Sue Charles) writes: >Or is it a case of scrapping the lot! and using the new 150mbytes >data tapes. If you are going to buy some new tapes, but DC6250s which will store 250MB in QIC-150 format (longer tape) Please see my post regarding the dangers of mixing tapes on a drive. In particular, it has been recommended that DC6250's NOT be mixed with DC600A/DC6150. Can anyone let me know by e-mail if the post (also a reply to Sue Charles' message) got out? I can also send a copy by e-mail if anyone needs it. The post was a summary of information from 3M and Archive on the proper use and mixing of tapes in QIC-150 and QIC-24 drives. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Codding (415)493-3554 (w) Research Engineer (415)751-5484 (h) P.E.D.A. peda@simplicity.Stanford.EDU ------------------------------------------------------------------------
peda@simplicity.Stanford.EDU (Bill Codding) (11/28/90)
Judging by the amount of mail I got from my reference to my
post on 3M tapes and interchangeability, the original post
never got through. Here it is again. Please let me know if
this gets out.
---Copy of original post follows---
In article <OPERATOR.90Nov20104952@expya.cs.exeter.ac.uk> operator@cs.exeter.ac.uk (Sue Charles) writes:
We at the moment have a QIC-11 tape drive on our sun and are backing up
onto 3M DC300A -300ft Tapes
DC300XL/P 450ft Tapes
DC600A 600ft Tapes using the maximum tape capacity.
In the new year we will be installing a QIC-150 drive.
Which (if any) of the above tapes would I still be able to use
If you want some really confusing, conflicting information on this
subject, call the 3M hotline. Want to be more confused? Call the
drive manufacturer.
We had similar questions. After what amounts to several
hours of experiments and being on the phone with the above goons,
the following information finally falls out.
1) Using our Archive 2150S QIC-150 drive (Stellar GS1000), we can
read AND write QIC-150, read ONLY QIC-24, and neither read NOR write
QIC-11.
2) Our Sun-3 was able to write both QIC-11 (nrst0) and QIC-24 (nrst8).
Only the higher density is readable in the QIC-150 drive. I believe
Sun-2's only wrote QIC-11.
3) 3M said you should not use more than one type of tape in a drive,
as the heads "wear in" to one type; using another can cause reliability
problems.
a) 3M explicitly said to not combine DC600A's and DC300XL/P's
on one drive. Upon pressing them for details, however, the two seem
to be the same form factor, same thickness vinyl, just a different
coating/oersted rating. I find it hard to believe you cant mix
different _coatings_ in your drive.... Archive says it is OK to
read the occasional DC300XL/P in your QIC-150 drive, though.
b) Archive says you can use either DC600A or DC6150 on their QIC-150.
They say the physical medium is the same, so no wear problems. However,
the 6150 has an additional capstan (roller) and a wider opening in the
plastic housing. The tape identification marks tell the tape drive
to write more tracks on the 6150, since the housing hole allows more head
clearance. Thus, 120MB on a 600A, and 150MB on a 6150.
c) The 6150 is actually Archive's recommended tape for the QIC-150; the
600A was originally designed for a lower capacity drive (hence the "60MB"
marking on the case) but will work writing fewer tracks.
d) Archive says you cannot interchange [DC6150/DC600A] and the DC6250.
The 6250 is thinner tape, and causes the head to wear more (or less??)
"convex-ly".
4) 3M sometimes gives different MB ratings to tapes which have the same form
factor, coating, thickness, etc; the only difference being that they
are marketed for use on drives which write different numbers of tracks!
Whatta waste of brain space. This isn't even my job.
I'm charging them $10,000,000 for my time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Codding (415)493-3554 (w)
Research Engineer (415)751-5484 (h)
P.E.D.A. peda@simplicity.Stanford.EDU
------------------------------------------------------------------------jjb@cs.wayne.edu (Jon J. Brewster) (11/30/90)
In article <1990Nov24.124017.11376@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.UUCP (Conor P. Cahill) writes: > >If you erase the DC600A, you will also be able to use it for writing on >the QIC-150 drive. The output will be written in QIC120 format (which >will give you 120MB per tape). > This is either incorrect, or system-dependent at best. Sun's _Tutorial on 1/4 Inch Tape Drives_ says, "The 150 Mbyte tape drive writes 18-track tapes in the QIC-150 data format. This tape drive uses 3M DC6150 (formerly DMDC600XTD) cartridges. This drive can also read tapes recorded in the QIC-120 data format on compatible cartridges, but does not write data in this format." Reading between the lines in the same tutorial suggests that the QIC-120 format is 15 tracks, while QIC-150 is 18 tracks. >Conor P. Cahill (703)430-9247 Virtual Technologies, Inc., >uunet!virtech!cpcahil 46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160 > Sterling, VA 22170 -- -jjb
heiser@tdw201.ed.ray.com (12/01/90)
In article <PEDA.90Nov21164524@simplicity.Stanford.EDU> peda@simplicity.Stanford.EDU (Bill Codding) writes: > > b) Archive says you can use either DC600A or DC6150 on their QIC-150. > They say the physical medium is the same, so no wear problems. However, > the 6150 has an additional capstan (roller) and a wider opening in the > plastic housing. The tape identification marks tell the tape drive > to write more tracks on the 6150, since the housing hole allows more head > clearance. Thus, 120MB on a 600A, and 150MB on a 6150. I have been unable to write to 600A tapes in my Archive Viper 2150S. I have had mixed results trying to READ 600A tapes in the same drive -- I suspect it is a Unix problem rather than a drive problem -- the troubles involved tar and cpio, but dd worked OK. I have been using 6150 tapes on a regular basis. -- Work: heiser@tdw201.ed.ray.com {decuac,necntc,uunet}!rayssd!tdw201.ed.ray.com!heiser Home: bill@unixland.uucp | Public Access Unix 508-655-3848 uunet!world!unixland!bill | 1200/2400/9600/19200 PEP/V32/V42
olson@anchor.esd.sgi.com (Dave Olson) (12/01/90)
In <1990Nov26.123048.21002@odi.com> benson@odi.com (Benson I. Margulies) writes: | In article <1990Nov24.124017.11376@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.UUCP (Conor P. Cahill) writes: | >In article <OPERATOR.90Nov20104952@expya.cs.exeter.ac.uk> operator@cs.exeter.ac.uk (Sue Charles) writes: | > | >You will be able to use the DC600A tapes. Depending upon which device | >you used to write them (/dev/rst8 writes in QIC-24 format, if I remember | >correctly) you should be able to read them on the new drive. | > | >If you erase the DC600A, you will also be able to use it for writing on | >the QIC-150 drive. The output will be written in QIC120 format (which | >will give you 120MB per tape). | > | Not all tape drives seems to support QIC120 format. Not all tape | drives give write errors when writing tapes on the DC600A if they | don't support QIC120. I am not at all certain about the ARCHIVE VIPER | 150 on my solbourne, or the wangtek. Best to perform read tests. The Archive Viper 150 definitely reads all 3 of QIC24, 120, and 150. In addition, it writes QIC120, and QIC150. Detection of cartridge and type type is automatic. -- Dave Olson Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.
les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) (12/03/90)
In article <1990Nov24.124017.11376@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.UUCP (Conor P. Cahill) writes: > >If you erase the DC600A, you will also be able to use it for writing on ^^^^^^ >the QIC-150 drive. The output will be written in QIC120 format (which >will give you 120MB per tape). I haven't seen anyone else mention this before but it does match my experience and I wonder if it is the real source of the problems that are being brought up about using these drives with DC600A's. I had a lot of trouble re-using old 3b2 32Meg formatted tapes until I started doing a couple of erase passes on them first. Les Mikesell les@chinet.chi.il.us
karl@naitc.naitc.com (Karl Denninger) (12/06/90)
In article <3438@sud509.ed.ray.com> heiser@tdw201.ed.ray.com writes: >In article <PEDA.90Nov21164524@simplicity.Stanford.EDU> peda@simplicity.Stanford.EDU (Bill Codding) writes: >> >> b) Archive says you can use either DC600A or DC6150 on their QIC-150. >> They say the physical medium is the same, so no wear problems. However, >> the 6150 has an additional capstan (roller) and a wider opening in the >> plastic housing. The tape identification marks tell the tape drive >> to write more tracks on the 6150, since the housing hole allows more head >> clearance. Thus, 120MB on a 600A, and 150MB on a 6150. > >I have been unable to write to 600A tapes in my Archive Viper 2150S. I >have had mixed results trying to READ 600A tapes in the same drive -- >I suspect it is a Unix problem rather than a drive problem -- the troubles >involved tar and cpio, but dd worked OK. I have been using 6150 tapes >on a regular basis. You're drive is hosed, or you're not using ISC. I have used a 2150S Archive drive with ISC 2.0.2 now for almost a year. I run my backups daily to DC600A tapes, since I have a ton of these, they're still good, and I can't see a reason to scrap perfectly good media. I get 125MB on each tape. Tastes great, less filling :-) No problems with either backup or restore, and I've had to restore many times. -- Karl Denninger AC Nielsen kdenning@ksun.naitc.com (708) 317-3285 Disclaimer: Contents represent opinions of the author; I do not speak for AC Nielsen on Usenet.