smb@datran2.uunet (Steven M. Boker) (11/15/90)
I have found a real gotcha in purchasing ESIX. A few weeks ago I purchased an ESIX 2 user base system, a GUI development toolkit and the NFS streams package. I installed the base system and the GUI development kit and played around with it and my general impression was good. Last week I started to install some of the source packages I have only to find that there were no libraries or compiler. I look through the literature I had and found that the base system was complete except for "C Software Development (Optional) CSDS 4 diskettes." OK, I thought. Well, maybe I'm going to have to put out more money for this option. I looked at their sales information and everything I saw said that Development System was included. I thought to myself, well maybe they just forgot to put the disks in the package. I call up ESIX tech support and they say, "Oh yeah, you just need the CSDS. Gee, I don't see it listed here on the price sheet. Why don't you call Ali at 415-683-2067. He'll straighten it out for you." Gosh, I thought. Real people. I called Ali and he said, "Talk to your software distributor and have him call me. I'm sure we can work something out." So I called the distributor and he called Ali and then my distributor called me back with the story that Ali refused to tell me in person. An ESIX 2 user base system can be purchased either with or without the four diskettes that comprise the CSDS. THERE IS NO OPTION THAT CAN BE PURCHASED. Thats right folks. If you buy an ESIX 2 user base system and don't ask for the CSDS, you will have to throw it away if you ever want those 4 diskettes. The deal is that I am being requested to buy a second ESIX base system in order to get the libraries. This is really deceptive practices. I encourage everyone who cares about these sorts of things to tell Ali at 415-683-2067. I have not been so mistreated by a software company in a long time. I am president and founder of Data Transforms, Inc. We were the first member of the Software Publishers Association. This kind of practice shines a foul light on all of the commercial developers out there that spend time energy and money in trying to make sure that customers get value for their money. 'Nuff said. Steve. -- #====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====# # Steve Boker # Algorist: Adept at calculations -OED # # datran2!smb@uunet.uu.net # En Chaos Veritas -SMB # #====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#
john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) (11/15/90)
In article <473@datran2.uunet> smb@datran2.uunet (Steven M. Boker) writes: >An ESIX 2 user base system can be purchased either with or without >the four diskettes that comprise the CSDS. THERE IS NO OPTION THAT >CAN BE PURCHASED. >This is really deceptive practices. I don't think so. I've never seen anything in any ESIX literature or anything from anyone who sells ESIX that stated or implied there was an upgrade path from a non-development system to a development system. Similarly lacking is an upgrade path from 2 user to unlimited user. When I looked into buying ESIX, I never saw anything called the "software development system package" or "unlimited user upgrade." Just because Interactive or others sell such packages is no reason to assume ESIX does so as well. -- John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)
kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov (Kaleb Keithley ) (11/15/90)
In article <473@datran2.uunet> smb@datran2.uunet (Steven M. Boker) writes: > >I have found a real gotcha in purchasing ESIX. > >A few weeks ago I purchased an ESIX 2 user base system, a GUI >development toolkit and the NFS streams package. I installed >the base system and the GUI development kit and played around with >it and my general impression was good. Last week I started to >install some of the source packages I have only to find that there >were no libraries or compiler. I look through the literature I >had and found that the base system was complete except for > >"C Software Development (Optional) CSDS 4 diskettes." > Sounds like you got the Rev D. *upgrade* package, which does not include the CSDS, because it is unchanged from Rev C. I'd go back and kick and scream at your vendor until he gets you the *real* full release. It might be a legitimate mix-up, or maybe your vendor is trying to beat the system by buying $75 upgrades and selling them as the $625 complete package? As far as I know, the only diff' between the upgrade and the full package is the CSDS. -- Kaleb Keithley Jet Propulsion Labs kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov I don't watch Twin Peaks; I just come to work.
scott@audiofax.com (Scott Lee) (11/17/90)
Having looked at the ESIX literature (and subsequently purchasing large amounts of the software) I never saw anything that implied that there was an upgrade path. There were 4 options; two users or infinite and development or non-development. In addition, there were manuals and NFS that you could purchase separately. The person from whom I was buying the software even confirmed my choices, although I already knew what the policy was, having read the literature. I think that you're flaming a little hard at ESIX for something that you are at least a fair amount to blame. The ESIX folks have been fairly responsive and deserve some credit for putting out a pretty good product at a good price. Enjoy, -- Scott Lee AudioFAX, Inc. / Suite 200 Audio: +1 404 933 7600 scott@audiofax.com 2000 Powers Ferry Center Fax: +1 404 933 7606 emory!audfax!scott Marietta, GA. 30067
conklin@frith.uucp (Terry Conklin) (11/17/90)
In article <473@datran2.uunet> smb@datran2.uunet (Steven M. Boker) writes: >I have not been so mistreated by a software company in a long time. I >am president and founder of Data Transforms, Inc. We were the >first member of the Software Publishers Association. This kind >of practice shines a foul light on all of the commercial developers >out there... ESIX has, in _every_ information packet ESIX has ever sent, included their "Basic information packet" which specifies that there is no upgrade. This is not to say that the practice of no upgrades is acceptable. On the other hand, it seems insanely inappropriate to talk about 'mistreatment' and then quote yourself as the first member of the Software Publishers Association! One can hardly call the SPA's "either you submit to our audit and fines or we sue you summarily" policy a cornerstone of acceptable treatment! Terry Conklin conklin@egr.msu.edu uunet!frith!conklin
daveg@usource.SARASOTA.FL.US (Dave Goodman) (11/18/90)
In article <473@datran2.uunet> smb@datran2.uunet (Steven M. Boker) writes: > I have found a real gotcha in purchasing ESIX. > > [tale of woe re: lack of development system in ESIX] > > An ESIX 2 user base system can be purchased either with or without > the four diskettes that comprise the CSDS. THERE IS NO OPTION THAT > CAN BE PURCHASED. Thats right folks. If you buy an ESIX 2 user base > system and don't ask for the CSDS, you will have to throw it away > if you ever want those 4 diskettes. > > The deal is that I am being requested to buy a second ESIX base > system in order to get the libraries. > > This is really deceptive practices. I encourage everyone who cares > about these sorts of things to tell Ali at 415-683-2067. I have > not been so mistreated by a software company in a long time. ... When I called ESIX for product information two or three months ago, they sent me an information package which included a price sheet showing four system options, plus GUI toolkit, NFS, etc. The plainly listed options were 1) Esix/386 2-User, 2) Esix/386 Unlimited, 3) Esix/386 2-User w/CSDS, and 4) Esix/386 Unlimited w/CSDS. The info sheet plainly stated: "There is no upgrade from a 2-User license to an Unlimited User license. And there is no upgrade from the Complete ESIX/386 package to the Complete ESIX/386 with Software Extensions package." I don't argue that ESIX and it's customers are well served by this policy, but since it is stated up front in their sales literature I hardly think it is a deceptive practice. -- Dave Goodman daveg@usource.sarasota.fl.us ...uflorida!usource!daveg
richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) (11/18/90)
In article <2267@jwt.UUCP> john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes: >In article <473@datran2.uunet> smb@datran2.uunet (Steven M. Boker) writes: >>An ESIX 2 user base system can be purchased either with or without >>the four diskettes that comprise the CSDS. THERE IS NO OPTION THAT >>CAN BE PURCHASED. > >>This is really deceptive practices. > >I don't think so. I've never seen anything in any ESIX literature or >anything from anyone who sells ESIX that stated or implied there was >an upgrade path from a non-development system to a development >system. Similarly lacking is an upgrade path from 2 user to >unlimited user. When I looked into buying ESIX, I never saw anything >called the "software development system package" or "unlimited user >upgrade." Just because Interactive or others sell such packages is >no reason to assume ESIX does so as well. Boy! What a vendors delight this guy is. Someone please revoke his "Fight Back" T-shirt immediately. What's wrong with assuming that vendors will act reasonably, and complaining when they don't? -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com
john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) (11/19/90)
In article <1990Nov17.230456.17516@pegasus.com> richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes: >In article <2267@jwt.UUCP> john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes: >>Just because Interactive or others sell such packages is >>no reason to assume ESIX does so as well. >What's wrong with assuming that vendors will act reasonably, and >complaining when they don't? Why do you consider it "unreasonable" that ESIX doesn't sell upgrade package X, Y or Z? Does the fact that these packages are sold by a competing vendor -- whose product costs hundreds of dollars more -- mean that ESIX must also sell them? As far as I'm concerned, ESIX works as advertised. They never claimed certain upgrade paths existed (in fact, it was pointed out that they *didn't* exist), and I planned my ESIX purchase accordingly. I don't think it's "reasonable" to expect Porsche performance and options at a Toyota price. -- John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)
jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) (11/19/90)
In article <1990Nov17.230456.17516@pegasus.com> richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes: >In article <2267@jwt.UUCP> john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes: >>In article <473@datran2.uunet> smb@datran2.uunet (Steven M. Boker) writes: >>>An ESIX 2 user base system can be purchased either with or without >>>the four diskettes that comprise the CSDS. THERE IS NO OPTION THAT >>>CAN BE PURCHASED. >>>This is really deceptive practices. >>I don't think so. I've never seen anything in any ESIX literature or >>anything from anyone who sells ESIX that stated or implied there was >>an upgrade path from a non-development system to a development >What's wrong with assuming that vendors will act reasonably, and >complaining when they don't? Nothing. But you're accusing ESIX of acting in a deceptive manner, which several people have pointed out is dead wrong. Yes, it'd be nice to see ESIX offer upgrades, from the basic 2-user system to any of the other packages. If enough people urge them to do it, they may very well do so --- in the relatively short time they've been around, they've shown that they do listen to their customers. They're now talking of offering an upgrade path to R4.0, which is what we'd all like to see. But if they don't, they have consistently said that they weren't going to offer such an upgrade. Deceptive == lying. Maybe somebody didn't think to ask if they could upgrade, assuming that they could, and were angry when they found out they couldn't. Well, ESIX in their product literature and over the phone will tell you that you can't. They've not lied about anything. I'd like to see upgrades, and on-line manuals, and X11R4. But ESIX delivers what they promise: a solid product at a good price. -- Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) Voice: +1 503 646-8257 Authorized ESIX, SCO resellers --- Great products at a GREAT price
jde@everex.uucp (-Jeff Ellis()) (11/20/90)
In article <473@datran2.uunet> smb@datran2.uunet (Steven M. Boker) writes: >An ESIX 2 user base system can be purchased either with or without >the four diskettes that comprise the CSDS. THERE IS NO OPTION THAT >CAN BE PURCHASED. Thats right folks. Yes this is right..... You should pick well which one you buy, also notice there is no upgrade between 2 user and unlimited user versions. > If you buy an ESIX 2 user base >system and don't ask for the CSDS, you will have to throw it away >if you ever want those 4 diskettes. WRONG. If you look at a ESIX Price list you will see that the 2-User version with Software Development will run you $595 and the unlimited user $825. Also if you look at the price list you see the versions with out C. These are for people who are putting losts of copies of ESIX at a site and only need one copy of the complier. Only way ESIX has been advertised in the Full unlimited user version with C. But like I said pick well you can not change after. BTW this polity in written out on the price list. >This is really deceptive practices. I encourage everyone who cares >about these sorts of things to tell Ali at 415-683-2067. I have >not been so mistreated by a software company in a long time. I >am president and founder of Data Transforms, Inc. We were the >first member of the Software Publishers Association. This kind >of practice shines a foul light on all of the commercial developers >out there that spend time energy and money in trying to make sure >that customers get value for their money. I think it was the fault of the dealer for not telling you all of the information and partly your fault for not reading the price list your self. The price list and other things like compatability lists are free from ESIX. -- Jeff Ellis ESIX SYSTEM/V UUCP:uunet!zardoz!everex!jde US Mail: 1923 St. Andrew Place, Santa Ana, CA 92705