martin@mwtech.UUCP (Martin Weitzel) (11/25/90)
Im a UNIX user for a long time, but a novice to X11 (using it about two weeks now). After making my first experiences I have some questions. At first, here is my current equipment, in case it should matter: Display - Sigma Laserview b&w monitor system (1680 * 1200 pixels, ~120 dpi) Software: - ISC UNIX 386 Release 2.2 - X11 Release 3 runtime&development system (Release 4 should be delivered soon, if I believe what my dealer promises ...:-/) Now my questions: 1) X11 and virtual screens As it appears to me, X11 is not well integrated with virtual screens (VTs). After starting the X-server and -clients on some VT, I can well switch away from this VT, but switching back doesn't work (the particular VT is dead then) and I have to kill and restart the server and clients. Maybe I'm doing someything very basic wrong here, because I found that if I start the server only (without any client), switching VTs work! So the server seems to get it right, but why do the clients notice VT switching at all? My understanding of X11 is that clients do *all* communication with the user thru the server! 2) Standard Fonts As you see from my hardware description, the resolution of my monitor is much higher that 75 or 100 dpi, for which fonts are included in the X11 package. Unfortunately this means that most of the fonts are not very valuable for me, as they are too tiny. I have to use 18 points from the 75dpi-font to get a character size which is comfortable to read (a 18 point 75dpi font appears on my screen in about the size of 11 points). So I have to change the default font for all the X-clients I want to use. As I understand the font-naming conventions are such that any decent X-client will automatically adapt according to the resolution of the display, but that would require that there are fonts available with the appropriate resolution. Unfortunately, there are many more fonts delivered for 75dpi than for 100dpi, which comes nearest to my display resolution. (As the eye is sensitive to the filled area, not to extension in a single direction, the 100dpi fonts would still appear too small by about 30%, but that is of course much better than the 75dpi fonts). What do other people with high resolution monitors? Where do they get the appropriate fonts from? I thought X-11 is famous for its portability to a broad range of hardware platforms. Does all this hardware have only 75dpi resolution monitors? 3) xterm and xpcterm As you see from the above, ISC-s standard fonts with the AT-PC glyphs are not much useful for me. That is not too worse, as I rather tend to use the ISO-8859 character set (before I began using X11, I had setup appropriate output-mapping). After getting the CHRCLASS- and xmodmap-stuff right, normal text applications run satisfactory (well, at least I can reasonably edit with vi). Problems start when using Curses. IMHO, the terminfo entries are not so `well integrated' and/or the respective X11 terminal emulators are incomplete. Well, I know that blinking is a problem and that due to using ISO-8859 fonts in xpcterm the semi grafic via the alternate character set yield unexpected results and I will not complain about this, but here are some other examples - in xpcterm, underlining note only underlines, but switches also to reverse mode (note that xterm get's this right!) - for xterm, the terminfo entry specifies alternate character set switching and a character map for semigraphic. Non of this works correctly, so drawing boxes out of curses displays every sort of strange characters. Maybe there is some workaround for the latter by building appropriate fonts myself (hey ISC, for what do I pay all that money if I must do many adaptions myself!), but the documentation is very incomplete in that areas. Part of ISC's documentation is the `X Window System User's Guide', which lists in its appendix E the "xterm Control Sequences". For the ones which load G0-G3 character sets, it is not documented which fonts they really access. So, even if I manage to construct suitable character sets that include glyphs for semigraphic, I nevertheless don't know how to tell xterm to use them. (Note: I don't want to load these fonts as standard fonts, but I want be able to switch to them from within xterm.) OK, ~100 lines now, I think enough for today. Maybe someone on the net has more info, solutions, or workarounds for all this. BTW: I'm not so dissappointed from X11 as it might seem from parts of this article, but naturaly I find it annoying that after spending my $$$$ (or rather DM :-)) for suitable equipment, I'm limited in some areas to much less than I could do on my good ol' HGC console. Of course, this doesn't mean that I'm blind wrt all the advantages of X11 ... -- Martin Weitzel, email: martin@mwtech.UUCP, voice: 49-(0)6151-6 56 83
larry@nstar (Larry Snyder) (11/25/90)
martin@mwtech.UUCP (Martin Weitzel) writes: >Im a UNIX user for a long time, but a novice to X11 (using it about >two weeks now). After making my first experiences I have some questions. >At first, here is my current equipment, in case it should matter: > Display > - Sigma Laserview b&w monitor system (1680 * 1200 pixels, ~120 dpi) Nice display - I am using a 14" NEC 3D in 800*600 with 256 colors - which is nice - but hard to work on - I would much rather have a high res large monitor system. What size monitor and how much? > Software: > - ISC UNIX 386 Release 2.2 > - X11 Release 3 runtime&development system (Release 4 should be > delivered soon, if I believe what my dealer promises ...:-/) I wouldn't believe your dealer if he is talking about release 4 from ISC. >1) X11 and virtual screens >As it appears to me, X11 is not well integrated with virtual screens (VTs). >After starting the X-server and -clients on some VT, I can well switch away >from this VT, but switching back doesn't work (the particular VT is dead >then) and I have to kill and restart the server and clients. Have you tried going back to the VT you disabled to install X on? For example, in /etc/inittab: v1:23:respawn:/etc/getty /dev/vt01 vt01 v2:23:respawn:/etc/getty /dev/vt02 vt02 v3:23:respawn:/etc/getty /dev/vt03 vt03 v4:23:respawn:/etc/getty /dev/vt04 vt04 v5:23:respawn:/etc/getty /dev/vt05 vt05 v6:23:respawn:/etc/getty /dev/vt06 vt06 v7:23:off:/etc/getty /dev/vt07 vt07 v7 is where I go if I want to return to my X display - -- Larry Snyder, Northern Star Communications, Notre Dame, IN USA {larry@nstar, {uunet|backbone}!nstar!larry, larry%nstar@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu} backbone usenet newsfeeds available Public Access Unix Site (219) 289-0282 (5 high speed lines)
cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) (11/27/90)
In article <1990Nov25.134746.7474@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar (Larry Snyder) writes: >> Display >> - Sigma Laserview b&w monitor system (1680 * 1200 pixels, ~120 dpi) > >I would much rather have a high res large monitor system. > What size monitor and how much? The Sigma designs Laserview is a 19" monochrome display. >>1) X11 and virtual screens > >>As it appears to me, X11 is not well integrated with virtual screens (VTs). >>After starting the X-server and -clients on some VT, I can well switch away >>from this VT, but switching back doesn't work (the particular VT is dead >>then) and I have to kill and restart the server and clients. VTs are documented to not work with the laserview. Don't use them. This is a problem with the laserview server code (possibly because of some hardware problems) not with X generically. Anyway why do you need VTs, when you can just pop up another window on you X display. -- Conor P. Cahill (703)430-9247 Virtual Technologies, Inc., uunet!virtech!cpcahil 46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160 Sterling, VA 22170
sking@nowhere.uucp (Steven King) (11/29/90)
In article <1990Nov27.120212.15145@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes: $>>1) X11 and virtual screens $> $>>As it appears to me, X11 is not well integrated with virtual screens (VTs). $>>After starting the X-server and -clients on some VT, I can well switch away $>>from this VT, but switching back doesn't work (the particular VT is dead $>>then) and I have to kill and restart the server and clients. $ $VTs are documented to not work with the laserview. Don't use them. This is $a problem with the laserview server code (possibly because of some hardware $problems) not with X generically. The release notes with ISC's X11 1.2 claim that this is fixed for the 2.2 release of the OS. -- sking@nowhere | better to remain unseen ..!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!nowhere!sking | and be thought a fool | than to post | and remove all doubt...