bgb (11/23/82)
I agree with idea that Christmas is too commercial. It is depressing to be flung into the holiday spirit when the only holiday you are currently looking forward to is Halloween. (Or even Labor Day at the rate things are going. I can see it now: Get your kid school clothes and Xmas shop all in one easy afternoon.) The most depressing part is not the forced atmosphere of holiday cheer too early but the tiredness and lack of spirit by the time the actual holiday arrives. I can not maintain the zeal I feel for the couple of weeks that should be the holiday season if I have been bombarded with "Jingle Bells. K-Mart sells" or whatever for weeks before. But the only way to change things is to make yourself heard so I shall inform the local mall management that I don't appreciate Autumn Christmases. Bah Humbug For a few weeks yet. BGB
trb (11/23/82)
I'm Jewish. I don't care about green Christmas, Xmas, Christmas, or any of that. On Christmas morning I sleep until I wake up, then I go about my usual business. I have absolutely no special place in my heart for Christmas. Many Christians find this so extremely hard to believe. I fast and pray on Yom Kippur. The Jewish Day of Atonement, culmination of the High Holy Days. Most important holiday of the Jewish year. How many of you non-Jews have a special place in your heart for Yom Kippur or even know when it comes? How many of you wake up on Yom Kippur morning feeling what Jews feel? I should hope none, because you're not Jews. How many of you go to the doctor when I feel ill? None. That's because you do what concerns you and I do what concerns me. I enjoy seeing the effect of the Christmas spirit, I enjoy listening to Christmas carols. I feel absolutely no obligation to spend hundreds of dollars on presents at Christmastime, and I don't miss the presents I don't receive one iota. I make this comment because I have seen comments on the net about how merchants don't share the reverence that certain people have for Christmas. Your reverence and your belief is your business. If you don't like what merchants do, then don't buy what they sell. People obviously respond to the advertising, else the merchants would yank it, I assure you. Andy Tannenbaum Bell Labs Whippany, NJ (201) 386-6491
c3jpynm (11/24/82)
Mr. Tannenbaum's comments seem like a long-winded way of saying bah humbug!
minow (11/24/82)
(From the London Magazine, Private Eye, sometime in the 1960's): "Christmas is the time when all the shops and storekeepers have a chance to make a gigantic profit. It was Our Lord Himself who said: 'and there shall come a great prophet througout the land.'" Martin Minow.
lsk (11/24/82)
I CAN'T BELIEVE Andy's comments!!! How can you say you don't spend hundreds of dollars on presents? Everyone knows you exchange presents for Chanukah. They go under the Chanukah bush --- right Scott????
dwv (11/25/82)
Bob Rosin, your wife should be commended on sending promotional
material to people who want to be on her mailing list. It would
be so much nicer if all merchants were this way!
The worst expierence I have had (and have every year) is the
christmas ads I get out of nowhere in August. I do not want
their material. I tryed writing to all of them to get off their mailing list
with little success. Being the inflamable person I am, I decided
to find out who was providing my name to be put on the mailing list.
I called one company, and found out to my horror that my name
was picked up off a list sold to the company by the State of Illinois.
Appearently, the Sec. of State here sells the lists of auto owners and
drivers liscences to get some extra money for the state ( thate sent
me into high speed flame). With one letter to the Sec. of State, I got
off these lists.
Not afraid to not trust any one
With my name, address and vital
stats.
Dave Vollman BTL IH
p. s. sorry about the ragged spelling and grammer, too close to
Thanksgiving (people are trying to stuff me).karn (11/25/82)
What's so terrible about junk mail? I find that those pulp flyers are great for starting my fireplace. My only complaint is about credit card companies (primarily oil companies, also Sears & Penney's) which package ads in the same size envelopes that they use to send bills. Some contain bills, some don't, and you never know until you open it. Phil Karn
root (11/26/82)
I have been watching the "Green Christmas" discussion for some time and have not bothered to answer for two reasons: 1. Generally, I concur with what has been said, and there are enough articles on the net in agreement that I didn't feel the need 2. I am Jewish, and didn't feel right about entering the foray Now, I feel that I have reason. It came in the form of a self-righteous statement by Andy Tannenbaum. In response ........ No Andy, when you are ill I don't go to see the doctor. But if I knew you well enough to care, I would be concerned that you are sick. I do celebrate Christmas every year - you see, I am married to an Anglican, the most beautiful "shiksa" you could hope to meet, and she believes in Christmas and Christ. (By the same token, she celebrates Chanukah, Pesach, etc with me.) I celebrate it as a special moment for those people who are special to me. I do care about Green Christmas because: - it intrudes on my privacy in the form of junk mail and T.V. commercials which I (me, myself) do not want to hear. - it debases something that is very important to someone who is very important to me - it teaches our child(ren) the value of money and selfishness. FYI, the kid(s) will be brought up in both religions - it doesn't matter which book you read from as long as you understand the lesson. I can't help but feel that it is your kind of attitude that makes anti-semitism so attractive. When I commented about your article to one of my co-workers the response was, "Those f_____g Jewish bastards, what make them think that they are God's Chosen People" - and she is Jewish also!!! (There Andy - I hope that was the kind of reation you wanted) NOW BACK TO THE NET: As well as simply writing letters to companies which offend you with their advertising, might I suggest that for the larger ones you bend, fold spindle mutilate and, if possible, demagnetize their charge cards and send them back to the company with an explanatory letter. Since a large part of their income is from overdue and finance charges against accounts, this will speak even louder than letters which can be seen as hollow threats. I realize that this is "cutting off your nose to spite your face" but you really didn't need those nasty pieces of plastic anyhow, did you? Along the same lines - for anyone who disagrees with the pressure applied by the (im)Moral (min)Majority - why not send letters (and charge cards) to any company who fall prey to M.M. tactics saying that you will not support them as long as they are bullied by others. (Hmmm - interesting paradox there.) I realize it is a weaker tactic, but it at least puts some paper with the opposite point of view into the hands of the companies which are being harassed by M.M. Enough of them might have a cancelling effect! WELL - I've ranted long enough. Not afraid to LOVE the Goyim David Katz
minow (11/27/82)
One interesting point about our commercial celebration of Christmas is that it emphasizes at least four of the "seven deadly sins" -- avarice, covetousness, greed, and gluttony. TV does a pretty good job of promoting the other three, for that matter. Martin Minow decvax!minow
death (11/27/82)
As the director of music at a local church, I have to beat even the shopper's Christmas rush; I had musicians booked for Christmas Sunday by the middle of September, and I've been working on Christmas music with the choir since mid-October. When you're on the organ bench, Christmas can take three or four months to happen. As far as I'm concerned, the Christmas "rush" that starts in mid-November is hopelessly late. :-) -=- dd
bj (11/30/82)
Bob Rosin, your wife should be commended on sending promotional
material to people who want to be on her mailing list. It would
be so much nicer if all merchants were this way!
I don't see much of a difference between merchants sending adds to people
on a mailing list and most forms of advertisement. While merchants are
to blame for the quality of advertisements, they should not be blamed
for the ads being there - they are all ads you *want* to see.
If you don't like ads on TV or radio, stick to PBS. They do have "fund
drives" which replace ads, but they could be eliminated if enough
people would send them money without it being requested. If there
was a demand for commercial free stations, they would exist.
If you don't like ads in newspapers or magazines, let the publishers
know. Again, if there was a demand they would exist - but they
would cost several times the current price. Are you ready to
pay $5.00 a day for the NYT without any ads?
Whenever you give your address to anybody, tell them not to distribute it.
This will eliminate the junk mail problem.
All forms of advertisement I can think of (except billboards) can be
avoided by avoiding the medium they come in. If you must have that
medium, don't complain - either ignore the ads or find an alternate
way to pay the cost of putting on the show or printing the paper.
B.J.
decvax!yale-comix!herbison-bj
Herbison-BJ@Yalewildman (11/30/82)
yale-com!bj, aka Harbison at Yale, suggests that we should all throw up our hands and give in to the Christmas advertisments. Furthermore, he suggests that we should stick our heads in the sand if we don't like them. I DISAGREE (I bet you figured out THAT already!) I think that just allowing everyone to offend your sensibilities and invade your privacy is indefensible behavior. If that's the kind of behavior you engage in, you DESERVE to be plagued with offensive, poorly thought out, and socially destructive ad's, kids, and neighbors. I'll say it again: SPEAK OUT! Let the advertisor know what you think of (his/her) ads. Let the merchants know. Let the manufacturers know. Let the networks know. Personally, I don't mind advertisments IN THE MAIL, where I can completely disregard them if I wish, from smaller companies that usually have more original, interesting, and less offensive contents. As far as I can see, Bob Rosin's example fits into that catagory, especially since I'm sure that you would fall off the mailing list if you complained. bj's advice, to stick to PBS, tell everyone not to sell your name, and so on, is not in itself bad advice, but it removes the freedom to do and see what you wish, and constitutes an infringement of freedom that is directly counter to the societal defination, unless, of course, you want to restrict your TV viewing to PBS (Not so bad a thought, actually) and so on. The current state of society came about by following the type of advice that bj offers. Get out of your hole in the sand! Express yourself! Give a DAMN! (I'm mad as HELL, and I won't take it any more <Thank you, Howard Biehl!>) Criticism does not HAVE to be destructive. Remember that! Get out your pens and WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! Control your own destiny! <Theological arguements need not apply, statement is rhetorical.>
rodolf (12/02/82)
Certainly a well-presented and thought-provoking point. But golly, with a name like Tannenbaum who'd 'a thought... I mean, gosh, no Christmas, wow Just Kidding Rick Lindsley uwvax!rodolf