vlr@litwin.com (Vic Rice) (01/02/91)
I have been running nbs_time from cron to keep my systems clock up to
date. Below is a piece of my clock log file:
12/27/90-06:00:56 Clock is 118 seconds slow.
12/27/90-06:02:54 New time set.
12/28/90-06:00:53 Clock is 63 seconds slow.
12/28/90-06:01:56 New time set.
12/29/90-06:00:53 Clock is 63 seconds slow.
12/29/90-06:01:56 New time set.
12/31/90-06:00:53 Clock is 104 seconds slow.
12/31/90-06:02:37 New time set.
01/01/91-06:00:53 Clock is 63 seconds slow.
01/01/91-06:01:56 New time set.
My system: SCO ODT 1.0.0y (System V R3.2.1)
ALR FlexCache 33/386
What gives ??? Why am I losing over a second a day ??
--
Dr. Victor L. Rice
Litwin Process Automationgsm@gsm001.uucp (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) (01/03/91)
in Message-ID: <1991Jan01.162400.6155@litwin.com> Dr. Victor L. Rice writes: > >What gives ??? Why am I losing over a second a day ?? >-- This is a very common bug in IBM PC design. It comes from one of two "features" of the IBM pc that has been carried over from the original. Time loss may be caused by three different things, but I think that yours is the second or third: 1: The battery backed up clock loses (or gains time). This is caused by the clock chip being "off". The problem may be fixed by your motherboard vendor (in this case ALR) or it may not. They probably do not warrenty clock accuracy. This problem usually shows up on systems that are powered off most of the time. If it is really off, such as hours a day, or dead, replace the battery. A friend of mine had an early Tandy 3000 (mitsubishi m/b) that lost 11 seconds a day. TANDY fixed it by replacing the motherboard. It lost 12 seconds a day. On the third try they said it was within specs. I know of no published specs for clock accuracy. 2: When UNIX (and MS-DOS) are booted, the read the battery backed up clock. From then on they update the time on each "clock tick interupt". Most device drivers, especially disk, turn off interupts while they are running. The clock will be "off" 1/60 of a second until the interupt gets processed. Since disk drivers don't want to be interupted, they turn off interupts during transfers. If for some reason they are busy for more than 1/60 of a second you loose any clock ticks after the first. If you have a tape or SCSI driver that is hit very hard you may see this. Also a serial card driver may block interupts, but not likely for that long a time. 3: Of course, your clock tick generator on you motherboard may be off, this is usually a crystal used for veritical sync. In fact, it's supposed to be off. This is because NTSC video actually refreshes at 59.9? Hz not sixty hertz. The number is some sub-multiple of the color carrier frequency which is 3.57??????? MHZ. Also a note on accuracy: 1% would be 864 seconds a day or 14 minutes 24 seconds .1% would be 86 seconds a day or 1 minute 26 seconds .01% would be 8.6 seconds a day 1 second a day is 1/86400 or 1 in almost 1 part in one hundred thousand. How many scientific instruments can boast that accuracy? -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson (215) 242-8712 uunet!gsm001!gsm
martin@mwtech.UUCP (Martin Weitzel) (01/04/91)
In article <1991Jan2.221527.15181@gsm001.uucp> gsm@gsm001.uucp (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes: [...] >1: The battery backed up clock loses (or gains time). [...] > A friend of mine had an early Tandy 3000 (mitsubishi m/b) that lost 11 > seconds a day. TANDY fixed it by replacing the motherboard. It lost > 12 seconds a day. On the third try they said it was within specs. > I know of no published specs for clock accuracy. [...] >Also a note on accuracy: > 1% would be 864 seconds a day or 14 minutes 24 seconds > .1% would be 86 seconds a day or 1 minute 26 seconds > .01% would be 8.6 seconds a day > 1 second a day is 1/86400 or 1 in almost 1 part in one hundred thousand. From some ancient times when I spent my days with a soldering iron and electronic components on my desk, I remember that the commercially available x-tals (which were also affordable for my budget) had an accuracy of ~10e-6..10e-5 which means that at most one second within a day would be in the specs. As a related topic: I've heard that there are some commercially available receiver boards for PCs that decode radio station which send time signals on long wave (in Germany "Sender Mainflingen" of the PTB). Does anybody have experience with such boards? Drivers for UNIX? -- Martin Weitzel, email: martin@mwtech.UUCP, voice: 49-(0)6151-6 56 83
lws@comm.wang.com (Lyle Seaman) (01/04/91)
gsm@gsm001.uucp (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes: >This is a very common bug in IBM PC design. It comes from one of two >"features" of the IBM pc that has been carried over from the original. >2: When UNIX (and MS-DOS) are booted, the read the battery backed up clock. > From then on they update the time on each "clock tick interupt". > Most device drivers, especially disk, turn off interupts while they > are running. A lot of Unices check the battery backed clock periodically. This should bound the drift caused by disbled interrupts so that the long term clock drift is solely attributable to the battery-backed clock. >Also a note on accuracy: > > 1% would be 864 seconds a day or 14 minutes 24 seconds > .1% would be 86 seconds a day or 1 minute 26 seconds > .01% would be 8.6 seconds a day > 1 second a day is 1/86400 or 1 in almost 1 part in one hundred thousand. >How many scientific instruments can boast that accuracy? Well, my free Disneyworld watch, for one. My free Grimace watch from McDonald's, for another. -- Lyle Wang lws@capybara.comm.wang.com 508 967 2322 Lowell, MA, USA Source code: the _ultimate_ documentation.
tim@delluk.uucp (Tim Wright) (01/04/91)
In <1991Jan2.221527.15181@gsm001.uucp> gsm@gsm001.uucp (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes: >in Message-ID: <1991Jan01.162400.6155@litwin.com> >Dr. Victor L. Rice writes: >> >>What gives ??? Why am I losing over a second a day ?? >>-- ... >2: When UNIX (and MS-DOS) are booted, the read the battery backed up clock. > From then on they update the time on each "clock tick interupt". > Most device drivers, especially disk, turn off interupts while they > are running. > The clock will be "off" 1/60 of a second until the interupt gets processed. > Since disk drivers don't want to be interupted, they turn off interupts > during transfers. If for some reason they are busy for more than 1/60 of > a second you loose any clock ticks after the first. > If you have a tape or SCSI driver that is hit very hard you may see this. > Also a serial card driver may block interupts, but not likely for that > long a time. > Is this really the case? How often do the above drivers do an 'splhi()' which would lock out the clock. I can't imagine it happens that much. The AT&T 3B15 had a bug where the disk buffer cache code locked out the clock and it really knocked the time out of whack when busy. From memory, v7-style block drivers lock the buffer cache with spl6, which doesn't affect the clock. I suppose a driver doing "programmed-io" might want to lock out all interrupts but I can't see that squirting 512 bytes in a loop takes that long on a modern system ! Anybody care to comment/correct me. >Also a note on accuracy: > > 1% would be 864 seconds a day or 14 minutes 24 seconds > .1% would be 86 seconds a day or 1 minute 26 seconds > .01% would be 8.6 seconds a day > 1 second a day is 1/86400 or 1 in almost 1 part in one hundred thousand. >How many scientific instruments can boast that accuracy? Well my casio wristwatch (quite cheap) is GUARANTEED accurate to 15 seconds a month or ~ 1/172800. I fail to see why the RTC-chip manufacturers can't make one at least as good (except for pricing considerations :-) Tim -- Tim Wright, Dell Computer Corp. (UK) | Email address Bracknell, Berkshire, RG12 1RW | Domain: tim@dell.co.uk Tel: +44-344-860456 | Uucp: ...!ukc!delluk!tim "What's the problem? You've got an IQ of six thousand, haven't you?"
gsm@gsm001.uucp (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) (01/05/91)
lws@comm.wang.com (Lyle Seaman) Replied to my note of: > >>Also a note on accuracy: >> >> 1% would be 864 seconds a day or 14 minutes 24 seconds >> .1% would be 86 seconds a day or 1 minute 26 seconds >> .01% would be 8.6 seconds a day >> 1 second a day is 1/86400 or 1 in almost 1 part in one hundred thousand. >>How many scientific instruments can boast that accuracy? With: >Well, my free Disneyworld watch, for one. >My free Grimace watch from McDonald's, for another. Funny, my "Swiss Army Watch" does not. If you LOOK AT THE SPECS most digital watches do not claim to be accurate to one second a day. Most of the are, however. The manufactures don't check them for accuracy, (the same with clock crystals). A friend of mine's father-in-law was presented with a gift in the early 1980's. It was a "cheap" (under $10) LED watch that was accurate to less than a second a month. It was not any different than the others made in the same batch except someone bothered to test it and found out it was that accurate. Obviously some others in the same batch were accurate to one second a month, some probably were accurate to one second a year, and some were (in)accurate to a minute a day or more. The manufacturers only guarentee accuracy within a range. The accuracy of a particular piece within that range is somewhat random, although you can compute the probability of it being a within a specific value. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson (215) 242-8712 uunet!gsm001!gsm