[comp.unix.sysv386] SCO UNIX 3.2.2 and Micronics 486

wmandrus@world.std.com (Wayne R Mandrus) (12/30/90)

Is there anyone who has loaded SCO UNIX 3.2.2 on a Micronics 486-25
based pc? Specifically, sco will not boot up if the internal cache
is enabled. Has anyone seen this or something simular?

-w

davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (12/31/90)

In article <1990Dec30.002048.8203@world.std.com> wmandrus@world.std.com (Wayne R Mandrus) writes:
| 
| Is there anyone who has loaded SCO UNIX 3.2.2 on a Micronics 486-25
| based pc? Specifically, sco will not boot up if the internal cache
| is enabled. Has anyone seen this or something simular?

  I haven't seen this one, but I've seen some boards which won't run in
an EISA slot with the cache on. I have some benchmarks which indicate
that a 486-33 with cache OFF is slower than a 386-25 with 64k cache. I
would not even consider running like that, SCO UNIX will run on
486-{25,33} with cache on, EISA and ISA, and if it won't on your system
you should send the system back.

  I'm assurred by two Micronics distributors that all flavors of SCO
{xenix,unix,odt} run on the board. Since they also distribute other
products I assume they would mention one which works if Micronics
doesn't.

  Slight caution: SCO has been know to ship the same product with
"running changes" in the system. What used to be true may not be so
today, check with the dealer and SCO fast, before they both claim your
support has run out.

  Expect finger pointing. The way to get past this is to call the dealer
(system or SCO) and say something like "will your product work with
so-and-so?" WHen they say yes they you say "that's what you told me and
I just bought it and it doesn't work. This avoids having the support
critter say "I never told you that."

  Keep a log of times and names of people you contact, send confirming
e-mail to support@sco.com with the error report number. This makes sure
they have what you consider to be a statement of the problem rather than
what notes were taken by the being which answers their phones. It also
insures that you have a record that it was reported before the support
died.

  I have found SCO to be pretty good about problems once they believe
you can read simple directions and there is a problem and it's theirs.
-- 
bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen)
    sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX
    moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list
"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me

jim@shograf.UUCP (jim morris) (01/04/91)

From article <1990Dec30.002048.8203@world.std.com>, by wmandrus@world.std.com (Wayne R Mandrus):
> 
> Is there anyone who has loaded SCO UNIX 3.2.2 on a Micronics 486-25
> based pc? Specifically, sco will not boot up if the internal cache
> is enabled. Has anyone seen this or something simular?
> 
> -w

I have had the same problem on the Club AT Hawk 3, 33Mhz 486.
It won't boot unless you start in non-turbo mode. After it has booted
everything (except TCP/IP) works fine when switched to turbo mode.

Of course SCO and Club AT pointed fingers at each other. I still don't
know who is to blame (My bet is the H/W). However someone at SCO
did say that a new boot program is being worked on that will work with
486's. Ask your SCO tech support person for more info.

If someone actually has this new boot program let us know.

My solution was to move the disk to a 33Mhz 386 where it works just fine. The 486
has been relegated to run DOS and windows!!

Jim

jim@shograf.UUCP or motcsd!shograf!jim

wmandrus@world.std.com (Wayne R Mandrus) (01/04/91)

In article <298@shograf.UUCP> jim@shograf.UUCP (jim morris) writes:
>From article <1990Dec30.002048.8203@world.std.com>, by wmandrus@world.std.com (Wayne R Mandrus):
>> 
>> Is there anyone who has loaded SCO UNIX 3.2.2 on a Micronics 486-25
>> based pc? Specifically, sco will not boot up if the internal cache
>> is enabled. Has anyone seen this or something simular?
>> 
>> -w
>
>I have had the same problem on the Club AT Hawk 3, 33Mhz 486.
>It won't boot unless you start in non-turbo mode. After it has booted
>everything (except TCP/IP) works fine when switched to turbo mode.
>
>Of course SCO and Club AT pointed fingers at each other. I still don't
>know who is to blame (My bet is the H/W). However someone at SCO
>did say that a new boot program is being worked on that will work with
>486's. Ask your SCO tech support person for more info.
>
>If someone actually has this new boot program let us know.
>

After 'pushing' at SCO they in fact have a new boot program available
that fixes boot problems on 486 type machines (i.e. micronics). The
boot program did resolve my problem. 

To get it call sosco and get the file sosco!~/tmp/boot16.Z
The file is not for general release yet, it's strictly a beta product,
but again it fixed my problem.

-w

debra@wsinis03.info.win.tue.nl (Paul de Bra) (01/04/91)

In article <298@shograf.UUCP> jim@shograf.UUCP (jim morris) writes:
>...
>I have had the same problem on the Club AT Hawk 3, 33Mhz 486.
>It won't boot unless you start in non-turbo mode. After it has booted
>everything (except TCP/IP) works fine when switched to turbo mode.
>...

Sounds like the old boot/speed problem again.
A vanilla sVr3.1 unix would not boot on my 25Mhz 386 box unless I slowed
it down to 8Mhz. sVr3.2 solved this problem.
Since the boot program cannot use real timers or something like that
to wait for asynchronous events it just loops a while, and on a 33Mhz 486
this loop may be over too soon for whatever it is the boot program
wants to wait for.

Once Unix has booted I could switch to 25Mhz with sVr3.1 and everything
was fine. Your problem is very similar...

Paul.
(debra@research.att.com, debra@win.tue.nl)

james@bigtex.cactus.org (James Van Artsdalen) (01/05/91)

In <1662@svin02.info.win.tue.nl>, debra@info.win.tue.nl wrote:

> Since the boot program cannot use real timers or something like that
> to wait for asynchronous events it just loops a while, and on a 33Mhz
> 486 this loop may be over too soon for whatever it is the boot program
> wants to wait for.

First of all, the boot program can use the 8254 timer on an AT to get
an accurate time base for any delay.

Secondly, there are other ways to get a fairly constant time base,
independent of CPU speed.  Remember that only the CPU complex is
running that fast: all of the bus devices run on an 8MHz bus (this
suggests several general solutions).  To fail merely because the CPU
is fast is sloppy programming.
-- 
James R. Van Artsdalen          james@bigtex.cactus.org   "Live Free or Die"
Dell Computer Co    9505 Arboretum Blvd Austin TX 78759         512-338-8789

davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (01/09/91)

In article <1991Jan3.195954.10767@world.std.com> wmandrus@world.std.com (Wayne R Mandrus) writes:

| After 'pushing' at SCO they in fact have a new boot program available
| that fixes boot problems on 486 type machines (i.e. micronics). The
| boot program did resolve my problem. 

  Let me say that ODT boots fine on Dell and HP 486's. That suggests
that the problem is in the hardware, and SCO just found a way to get by
it without breaking other machines.
-- 
bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen)
    sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX
    moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list
"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me

wmandrus@world.std.com (Wayne & Betsy Mandrus) (01/09/91)

In article <2839@sixhub.UUCP> davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes:
>
>  Let me say that ODT boots fine on Dell and HP 486's. That suggests
>that the problem is in the hardware, and SCO just found a way to get by
>it without breaking other machines.
>-- 

Actually, the individual I spoke with at SCO indicated that the problem 
was most likely a result of the Phoenix/486 combo in certain motherboards.
The problem exists is several other manufactures products as well, or in
the case of micronics, certain revs of the motherboard. You could point
to the hardward and say that's the problem and you would be right. On the
other hand, ISC does not suffer from the problem indicating to some
extent that there probably is a 'good' generic way to handle the bios/486
that SCO didn't use. So again whose doorstep do you lay this problem on?

-w

md@sco.COM (Michael Davidson) (01/12/91)

In article <2839@sixhub.UUCP> davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes:
>In article <1991Jan3.195954.10767@world.std.com> wmandrus@world.std.com (Wayne R Mandrus) writes:
>| After 'pushing' at SCO they in fact have a new boot program available
>| that fixes boot problems on 486 type machines (i.e. micronics). The
>| boot program did resolve my problem. 
>  Let me say that ODT boots fine on Dell and HP 486's. That suggests
>that the problem is in the hardware, and SCO just found a way to get by
>it without breaking other machines.

The problem with the Micronics 486/25 is that the original memory sizing
code in /boot thought that it could detect the presence of a 4K page of
memory immediately above 16Meg (even though this memory did not in fact
exist). Unfortunately, memory sizing on machines with caches can be tricky
depending on precisely how the cache is implemented. The new version of
/boot avoids this problem.