rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) (10/31/90)
larry@nstar.uucp (Larry Snyder) writes: > Interactive has on-line manuals as well - but they use a non-standard format > for them (at least none of the other software packages get their man pages > installed correctly)... Hey, it's not "non-standard" - it's just a different standard! (that's as in "The nice thing about standards is there are so many to choose from.":-) Actually, there's a reason for the change, and it's not just Interactive's doing. >...I've had to manually pipe the man pages for cnews, > smail3, nn, elm and other packages through nroff using "nroff -man < in > out". The current (Sys Vish) distribution style for man pages has them pre- formatted for a relatively generic device (fixed pitch, boldface by over- striking, etc.) and packed (.z format). While this may seem unfortunate in that you can't reformat and print them on whatever random printer is sitting in the hallway, it became necessary when DWB was unbundled: the old manual-page format was n/troff input, hence you needed at least nroff and the -man macros. > Is that the same for SCO? Yes. -- Dick Dunn rcd@ico.isc.com -or- ico!rcd Boulder, CO (303)449-2870 ...but Meatball doesn't work that way!
palowoda@fiver (Bob Palowoda) (11/01/90)
From article <1990Oct30.202322.8350@ico.isc.com>, by rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn): > larry@nstar.uucp (Larry Snyder) writes: > >> Interactive has on-line manuals as well - but they use a non-standard format >> for them (at least none of the other software packages get their man pages >> installed correctly)... > > Hey, it's not "non-standard" - it's just a different standard! (that's as > in "The nice thing about standards is there are so many to choose from.":-) > Actually, there's a reason for the change, and it's not just Interactive's > doing. Ok, I'll bite. Whats the reason. ---Bob -- Bob Palowoda palowoda@fiver | *Home of Fiver BBS* Home {sun}!ys2!fiver!palowoda | 415-623-8809 1200/2400 {pacbell}!indetech!fiver!palowoda | An XBBS System Work {sun,pyramid,decwrl}!megatest!palowoda| 415-623-8806 1200/2400/19.2k TB+
news@macuni.mqcc.mq.oz (USENET News System) (11/07/90)
In article <1990Oct30.202322.8350@ico.isc.com> rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes: >larry@nstar.uucp (Larry Snyder) writes: > ... > >The current (Sys Vish) distribution style for man pages has them pre- >formatted for a relatively generic device (fixed pitch, boldface by over- >striking, etc.) and packed (.z format). While this may seem unfortunate >in that you can't reformat and print them on whatever random printer is >sitting in the hallway, it became necessary when DWB was unbundled: the >old manual-page format was n/troff input, hence you needed at least nroff >and the -man macros. > It would be nice if they could supply nroff with the standard system and put the troff stuff in the DWB. Otherwise, they should ship the proper manual sources with DWB. One of the strengths of early UNIX was that the doco. could be maintained. We have lost this, but there seems to be no reason why we couldn't have it back. These days, nroff isn't much use for anything other than the online manual (and perhaps as a cheap demo. for DWB). Put nroff in the base system and sell more DWB! b++
cy5@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Conway Yee) (01/11/91)
In article <52585@bigtex.cactus.org> james@bigtex.cactus.org (James Van Artsdalen) writes: > >It is the case that AT&T strongly discourages this for some reason. Why does AT&T discourage it? >It's very expensive for a vendor to offer the man pages on line, but >it's also pretty popular with end users. Why is it so expensive? Presumably, all the documentation is already online somewhere so that it can be easily updated. Nobody uses typewriters anymore. Everything is word processed. >This is probably a good catagory for the monthly product comparison >chart, if it's not already there. True. Conway Yee, N2JWQ yee@ming.mipg.upenn.edu (preferred) 231 S. Melville St. cy5@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (forwarded to above) Philadelphia, Pa 19139 yee@bnlx26.nsls.bnl.gov (rarely checked) (215) 386-1312
vjs@calcite.UUCP (Vernon Schryver) (01/12/91)
In article <1991Jan10.212820.19557@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, cy5@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Conway Yee) writes: > Why [are AT&T on line manuals] so expensive? Presumably, all the > documentation is already > online somewhere so that it can be easily updated. Nobody uses > typewriters anymore. Everything is word processed. The same arguement applies to (other) software. Few of us still use card punches or rotory reperforators, but we want more than media cost for our programing efforts. (Weren't roff or nroff used for the first UNIX technical reports?) Maybe the AT&T lisense fees for manuals are high for the same reason the AT&T lisense fees for System V are non-trivial. (Last I heard their starting negoiating point for SVR4 was a significant percentage of the list cost of the hardware.) Maybe AT&T is trying to find a way to make money on computers, or to at least meet a rather awesome payroll. There's been a bit of that going around since the first commercial machines. Vernon Schryver, vjs@calcite.uucp
steve@trashy.UUCP (Steve Talmage) (01/13/91)
Posted for a friend with no news feed... James Van Artsdalen (james@bigtex.cactus.org) responded ... >>> It's very expensive for a vendor to offer the man pages on line, but >>> it's also pretty popular with end users. >> Why is it [MAN PAGES] so expensive? > Licensing fees. The up front fee is so large that most vendors > probably have a tough time believing that they'll get enough extra > sales to pay for it. In response to the net chatter during the past few weeks, below is some of the key information concerning the licensing fees for SVR4. Schedule For The 386(tm) Implementation of UNIX System V Release 4.0 (November 1, 1989) Page 2 of 12 Paragraph 2 Right to Use and Distribution Fees ... (a) Right-To-Use Fees (i) Initial DESIGNATED CPU US$100,000 (ii) Initial DESIGNATED CPU for LICENSEEs who have licensed another implementation of SVR4 US$ 50,000 (iii) Each add'l DESIGNATED CPU US$ 5,000 (iv) Upgrade from previous UNIX SVR? US$ 3,000 (v) Each NETWORK OF CPU's US$ 50,000 Page 3 of 12 Paragraph 3 Sublicensing Fees (a) Initial Sublicensing Fee US$ 25,000 (All UNIX SVR4 implementations) Page 9 of 12 Paragraph 10 (Sub B) Materials Which May Be Included In A Sublicensed Product (b) One hard copy and a formatted on-line version of the non- proprietary documentation that describes only the software components in the SUBLICENSED PRODUCT may be reproduced and distributed with each SUBLICENSED PRODUCT. Additional copies may be reproduced and distributed only upon execution of a Supplement for UNIX System V Release 4.0 Documentation Reproduction Provision and payment of the appropriate fees ... The DRP base fee for a licensee to produce and distribute documentation and man pages to its sublicensees is $ 13,000. In order for a vendor (licensee) to produce extra sets of documentation and man pages (other than the non-royalty fee set which may be shipped with each OS) the charges per set are: 20% of the list price of the documentation; or $ 81 for documentation (written) and/or $111 for man pages For further licensing information, contact the staff of AT&T UNIX Software Operations Greensboro, NC 800-828-UNIX ...uunet!gcss20!gccab -- |-----------------------------------------|..|----------------------| | Ed Presnall |..| The best selling non | | XXPRESS TECHNOLOGY, INC. |..| fiction book of 1990 | | uucp: ...!uhnix1!lobster!trashy!xxpress |..| was "Millie's Book", | | inet: xxpress%trashy@lobster.hou.tx.us |..| dictated by Millie, | | usps: 21418 Highland Knolls |..| the President's Dog. | | Katy, Texas 77450 |..| Proceeds are to sup- | | (713) 578-8919 or (713) 578-8902 |..| port literacy. | |-----------------------------------------|..|----------------------| -- Steve | uucp: ...!uhnix1!lobster!trashy!steve | "Do or do not. There is Talmage | inet: steve%trashy@lobster.hou.tx.us | no 'try'." | usps: 12630 Ashford Pt. Dr. #419 | | Houston, TX 77082 | - Yoda, Jedi Knight