paul@dialogic.com (The Imaginative Moron aka Joey Pheromone) (08/31/90)
In article <1990Aug29.154047.28841@arcturus.uucp> evil@arcturus.uucp (Wade Guthrie) writes: >** Interactive I386 >email address: ? >advantages/features: >disadvantages: > - expensive upgrade policy > Let me expand on this: advantages/features: - Fast File System - uses bitmap to do contiguous freelist block allocation. Noticeably increases FS performance - a 1K FFS is better than standard ATT 2K - HPDD - Very good disk and tape support, including SCSI - X11 support - extensive, EGA thro' Matrox hi-res colour. Motif and Looking Glass, too disadvantages: - Support. Hard to get - theirs is NOT good, and you only get it free if you bought from them - otherwise its $600/yr (approx). Buying through a GOOD dealer/distributor is must. -- Paul Bennett | | "I give in, to sin, because Dialogic Corp. | paul@dialogic.com | You have to make this life 300 Littleton Road | ..!uunet!dialogic!paul | livable" Parsippany, NJ 07054 | | Martin Gore
ac119@cleveland.freenet.edu (09/02/90)
Glad to see Coherent mentioned here, as I would like to learn something about it. I just saw the ad in PC Mag (9/11 issue). This is a $99.95 piece of software that compares itself to a product that costs $1,495. Same issue of PC Mag has an article about disk partitions, and mentions that some XENIX-type operating systems can cause serious damage to users of DOS 4.01 (that's me) by writing bad info to the partition table, or the FAT, or something like that. Does Coherent cause this problem? The ad mentioned that Coherent users will be able to access news and software via UUCP. Does anyone know how that works? -- NEIL PARKS Domain routing: ac119@cleveland.freenet.edu Bang routing: uunet!ncoast!skybridge!cleveland.freenet.edu!ac119 Fidonet: 157/511 (Appleholics) GT: 27/0 (Tardis) "Competition is the backbone of the American free enterprise system."
john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) (09/03/90)
In article <1990Sep2.094338.13563@NCoast.ORG> ac119@cleveland.freenet.edu writes: >Glad to see Coherent mentioned here I'm not. Coherent is neither UNIX, System V, nor a 386-specific product, so comp.unix.sysv386 hardly seems to be the appropriate place to discuss it. There have been discussions of it going on in comp.os.misc, as well as some of the ibm.pc newsgroups. Those seem like better places to take this thread. -- John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)
pjh@mccc.uucp (Pete Holsberg) (09/04/90)
In article <2069@jwt.UUCP> john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes: =In article <1990Sep2.094338.13563@NCoast.ORG> ac119@cleveland.freenet.edu writes: =>Glad to see Coherent mentioned here = =I'm not. Coherent is neither UNIX, System V, nor a 386-specific =product, so comp.unix.sysv386 hardly seems to be the appropriate =place to discuss it. There have been discussions of it going on in =comp.os.misc, as well as some of the ibm.pc newsgroups. Those seem =like better places to take this thread. Uh, John? Coherent *is* UNIX. Not SV not BSD, and not 386-specific. It is fine for learning UNIX usage (not programming) on a 286 or 386 machine. Pete -- Prof. Peter J. Holsberg Mercer County Community College Voice: 609-586-4800 Engineering Technology, Computers and Math UUCP:...!princeton!mccc!pjh 1200 Old Trenton Road, Trenton, NJ 08690 Internet: pjh@mccc.edu Trenton Computer Festival -- 4/20-21/91
ken@dali.gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii) (09/04/90)
In article <1990Sep4.002738.24876@mccc.uucp> pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) writes: > >Uh, John? Coherent *is* UNIX. Not SV not BSD, and not 386-specific. >It is fine for learning UNIX usage (not programming) on a 286 or 386 >machine. > Absolutely wrong. Coherent is not Unix; it is not even close. It is a sorta clone of some of the outward appearance of an ancient flavour of Unix. It contains no Unix source code, nor does it do things that Unix has been doing since the early days of the PDP-11. Coherent is no more Unix than Minix or QNX or Idris or Xinu. If you are interested in discussing Coherent, I would suggest using the Coherent mailing list that was recerntly set up, and not muddy the waters of the already opaque topic of Unix(tm) for the 386, in all it's many varieties. -- ken seefried iii ken@dali.gatech.edu "Vee haf veyz off making you talk...release da veasles..."
dewey@dell.dell.com (Dewey Coffman) (12/04/90)
Vendor: Dell Computer Corp Attn: USENET UNIX Sales, AR2 9505 Arboretuem Blvd. Austin, TX 78759-7299 Product: Dell UNIX System V Release 4.0 Version 2.0 Contact info: uunet!dell!info, info@dell.com (800) 678-UNIX Price: complete (1-2 user)*: $995 unlimited user upgrade: $300 complete (unlimited)*: $1295 Upgrade from Dell UNIX V.3.2.1 ($400) * Includes development system(AT&T ANSI C), DOS Merge Networking, X Window System development(X11R4,Motif 1.1, Xview 2.0), Open Look, X.Desktop 2.0. Packaging: Two Floppies(5.25" or 3.5"), one 150 meg QIC. Factory Installation when purchased with machine. (1-2) user $399.00 per year* (unl) user $500.00 per year* * Note: Bug fixes and the like are free, this fee allows you to talk to phone support. Free uucp access to support distributions. Documentation: Base/Development/X on-line man pages "Getting Started Guide" included. Prentice Hall documentation availble. File System: Berkeley Fast File System(default), Sys V, XENIX Drivers: SCSI(Adaptec 1542),ESDI(WD1007, UltraStore),IDE, Western Digital 80*3E, Westen Digital and IBM TokenRing Stallion(Formerly Anvil) Multiport Serial Cards Computone Multiport Serial Cards. Weitek 3167, 4167 Text: Berkeley versions(in base) nroff, troff,tbl,eqn,neqn(man,me,ms,mn macros) style, diction, spell, refer Networking: TCP/IP NFS/RFS runtime/development/STREAMS bundled SLIP(up to 16 "total" network connections) X11 Support: X11R4 clients and server(VGA, GPX-TI34010) Motif Development 1.1, Xview 2.0 Logitech and Microsoft serial mouse support. Window Managers: mwm,olwm,twm,uwm MS-DOS Support: DOS access commands(dosdir,doscp,... etc) DOS/Merge, PC Interface. Mailers: Sendmail, MMDF, mailx, mh, elm GNU License: emacs,gdb (ie source available for download for customers) Miscellaneous: C shell/Korn shell DOS Merge Multi-User upgrade $299.00 Cnews,nn,rn,nntp, and RCS utils included. Minimum Config: 386SX/ISA 8MB memory, 150 meg drive, one floppy (3.5 or 5.25) 150 Meg tape drive. -- Dewey Coffman Dell Computer Corp. 9505 Arboretum Blvd. DOMAIN: dewey@dell.com Austin, TX 78759-7299 UUCP: dell!dewey, sooner!dewey
oliver@karakorum.berkeley.edu (Oliver Sharp) (12/19/90)
I'm about to upgrade my AT with a 386 motherboard and I would like to bring
up UNIX on it. At school, I use HP and Sun workstations to do parallel
language research; it would be nice to work at home and transfer the
code back and forth with a minimal amount of hassle. I use 4BSD at
school, but I don't mind the BSD/SysV compatibility problem too much
since I'd like the code to work on both platforms anyway. I've been
able to get some work done in MSDOS by using Turbo C and MKS LEX and
YACC, but once I've gone through the trouble of moving the code to UNIX,
I generally don't want to bother moving it back. The system I'm working
on consists of several processes communicating through sockets and needs
a few megs to run, so I can't work on the real thing under MSDOS anyway.
I experimented with Microsoft's 286 Xenix a number of years ago (when I
worked there), and it just wasn't very convenient to use. It was
crippled on my machine by the small disk. Now that I can put a
reasonable processor and disk in the system, I'm thinking about UNIX
again. Since I haven't gotten any equipment yet, I have a fair amount
of freedom. I'm interested in hearing about:
1) what motherboard/disk/UNIX combination you have used and found to
be both reliable and responsive
2) your impressions about the relative solidity of the different 386 UNIX
implementations (Interactive, SCO, Dell, etc) and how well they
support X Windows application development
3) what you think of 386BSD, if you have had any experience with it
(this is a recent port of BSD that was just written up in DDJ)
I realize these are fairly broad questions, but I have seen other people
ask similar ones so I think the replies will be of general interest. I will
wait a few weeks and then summarize all the responses I get. Perhaps that
will reduce the number of "what's a good UNIX" posts for a while.
Thanks in advance,
- Oliver Sharpevil@arcturus.uucp (Wade Guthrie) (02/02/91)
Sorry about leaving some stuff out -- I've been working a lot lately,
and haven't been able to keep this thing up to date. Here is the
most recent version.
Before I go much further, though, I'd like to thank all of the vendors
for sending me information -- that kind of responsiveness makes this
list much more usable. If any other vendors (Intel, Microport, and UHC
come to mind) would like to send an update to what I have here, I'd
be anxious to include it. Please, send any data in the format
presented here. Thanks.
I submit the following:
----------------------
first, a KEY:
Price: should be the price for which the company itself
sells the product (street prices may be lower),
but no guarantee that this is not the street
price. Only a 2-user price is provided for most.
(base) This is the price for a runtime system
(development) This is the price for the C compiler, etc.
Each vendor may treat this a little differently.
(text) This is the price for nroff, etc.
(complete) This is the price for the whole shebang. It
is only shown when the other packages are not
sold unbundled.
Minimum Config: represents the hardware needed to support
operation of this software product. Alternates are
presented in parenthesis, recommended expansions on
the minimum are noted by "rec." in parens. For example,
for systems that operate with an 80386 but an 80486 is
the recomended configuration, the entry will be
386 (486 rec.)
systems that can use EGA, VGA, Super VGA (800x600) or
Extended VGA (1024x768), the entry will be
(E,V,SV,EV)GA;
systems that can use either the ISA (AT) bus, the EISA
bus, or the Microchannel bus, the entry will be
(E)ISA, MCA.
----------------------
Vendor: Dell Computer Corp
Product: Dell UNIX System V Release 4.0 Version 2.0
Contact info: uunet!dell!info, info@dell.com
(800) 678-UNIX
Attn: USENET UNIX Sales, AR2
9505 Arboretuem Blvd.
Austin, TX 78759-7299
Price: complete (1-2 user)*: $995
unlimited user upgrade: $300
complete (unlimited)*: $1295
Upgrade from Dell UNIX V.3.2.1 ($400)
* Includes development system(AT&T ANSI C), DOS Merge
Networking, X Window System development(X11R4,Motif 1.1,
Xview 2.0), Open Look, X.Desktop 2.0.
Minimum Config: (3,4)86; (E)ISA
8MB mem, 100MB disk, 150MB tape, one floppy (3.5 or 5.25)
Support: (1-2) user $399.00 per year*
(unl) user $500.00 per year*
* Note: Bug fixes and the like are free, this fee
allows you to talk to phone support. Free uucp access
to support distributions.
Documentation: Base/Development/X on-line man pages
"Getting Started Guide" included.
Prentice Hall documentation availble.
File System: Berkeley Fast File System(default), Sys V, XENIX
Drivers: SCSI(Adaptec 1542),ESDI(WD1007, UltraStore),IDE,
Western Digital 80*3E, Westen Digital and IBM TokenRing
Stallion(Formerly Anvil) Multiport Serial Cards
Computone Multiport Serial Cards.
Weitek 3167, 4167
Networking: TCP/IP NFS/RFS runtime/development/STREAMS bundled
NFS, ftp, smtp, telnet, rcmd, rclock, etc, included
SLIP(up to 16 "total" network connections)
X11 Support: X11R4 clients and server(VGA, GPX-TI34010) bundled
Motif Development 1.1, Xview 2.0 bundled
Open Look, X.Desktop 2.0 bundled
Logitech and Microsoft serial mouse support.
Window Managers: mwm,olwm,twm,uwm
only 640x480x16 screen support, free update promised
MS-DOS Support: DOS access commands(dosdir,doscp,... etc)
DOS/Merge (works under X), PC Interface.
$299: DOS Merge Multi-User upgrade
Miscellaneous: Berkeley versions(in base)
nroff, troff,tbl,eqn,neqn(man,me,ms,mn macros)
Two Floppies(5.25" or 3.5"), one 150 meg QIC.
Factory Installation when purchased with machine.
GNU stuff: emacs,gdb (ie source available for download for customers)
EISA Support
C shell/Korn shell
Cnews,nn,rn,nntp, and RCS utils included.
----------------------
Vendor: Everex
Product: ESIX 3.2
Contact info: uunet!zardoz!everex!jde
(415) 683-ESIX
Price: complete (*): $825
* Includes unlimited user, development system,
network, xwindows
Minimum Config:
Support: Free lifetime (currently). reported to be pretty good
Documentation: no on-line man pages
$345: poor paper documentation
File System: fast file system (not Berkely?)
Drivers:
Networking: TCP/IP runtime and development and STREAMS bundled
$525: NFS
X11 Support: X11R3 client and server is bundled, Motif is extra
MS-DOS Support:
Miscellaneous: inexpensive upgrade policy
no EISA or MCA
----------------------
Vendor: Intel
Product: UNIX System V 3.2
Contact info: (800) 548-4725
Price: base (2 user): $595
development: $665
Minimum Config: (3,4)86; ISA, SCSI; 4MB mem; 40MB disk
Support:
Documentation:
File System:
Drivers: various Tape, (E,V,EV)GA, SCSI, ESDI, Ethernet
Networking: RFS, Streams, Network Services Extension, Open Systems
Networking Interfaces;
$695: NFS; $495: TCP/IP
X11 Support: $495: supports Hercules, (C,E,V)GA
MS-DOS Support: $895: Merge/386
Miscellaneous: full/real AT&T unix
----------------------
Vendor: Intel
Product: UNIX System V 4
Contact info: (800) 548-4725
Price: base (2 user): $1119
development: included
Minimum Config: ?
Support:
Documentation:
File System:
Drivers: ?
Networking: Streams, NFS included
X11 Support: included
MS-DOS Support: ?
Miscellaneous: full/real AT&T unix
----------------------
Vendor: Interactive Corporation
Product: 386ix 3.2
Contact info: support@isc.com
(213) 453-8649
Price: base (2 user): $495
development: $795
text: $395
Minimum Config: 386; ISA, MCA, Multibus; 2MB mem (4MB rec.); 5.25, 3.5 floppy;
?MB disk
Support: (reportedly) NOT good. 30 days free, after that, its $600/year
(Interactive provides free support if you buy it from them, and
will support by mail, even if you don't pay the big bux).
Documentation:
File System: Sys V accelerated with a bitmap of free/used blocks in memory.
Drivers: HPDD - Very good disk and tape support, including SCSI
2.2 SCSI drivers have extremely good performance
(especially with bus mastering controllers.)
Sun River Fiber Optic workstation driver
Ethernet: MICOM Interlan or StarLAN
Networking: $495: TCP/IP, Sockets, TELNET, FTP
X11 Support: $795 ($295 X11 runtime): Xlib, XT toolkit, EGA thru' Matrox
hi-res color. Reportedly best performing in 386 market.
$495 ($295 runtime): Motif
$595: Looking Glass (X11 desktop).
MS-DOS Support: DOS/UNIX file transfer utilities, directly access MS-DOS
filesystem;
$495: VP/ix (2-user)
Miscellaneous: Support for AT, MCA, Multibus busses
includes C-shell and Sendmail
upgrade policy ($700 to upgrade a $3000 system)
----------------------
Vendor: Mark Williams Company
Product: Coherent
Contact info: (800) MARK WMS
Price: base: $99.95
Minimum Config: (2,3)86; ISA (NO MCA)
Support:
Documentation: A single manual. Pretty good for $99
File System:
Drivers: won't work on systems w/ SCSI or ESDI Controllers
Networking:
X11 Support:
MS-DOS Support:
Miscellaneous: C compiler, uucp, yacc/lex bundled,
executables limited to 64K
really only a 286 product
won't run UNIX V/386 ABI executables
----------------------
Vendor: Microport
Product: System V/386 R4
Contact info: ?@mport.com
(800) FOR-UNIX or (408) 438-8649
Price: base: $329
development: $598 (includes Korn shell)
text: $259
complete: ($1500 ?)
Minimum Config: (2,3)86; ISA; 1.5MB mem (640K for 286); ?MB disk;
Support:
Documentation:
File System:
Drivers:
Networking: $299: Network Services Extention (no nfs?)
X11 Support: none?
MS-DOS Support: $399: DOSMerge (2-user)
Miscellaneous: Saw in ad: Distribution Royalties Apply
full/real AT&T unix
----------------------
Vendor: Prentice-Hall
Product: MINIX 1.5
Contact info: books@prenhall.com
(800) 624-0023 or (201) 767-5969
Price: complete (3 user): $169
Minimum Config: (-,2,3)86; 512MB mem; (C,E)GA, herc, mono; floppy (hard rec)
Support:
Documentation:
File System:
Drivers:
Networking: Distributed computing on Ethernet (remote login, etc.)
X11 Support:
MS-DOS Support:
Miscellaneous: no AT&T UNIX code.
delivered with source code
Versions are also available for the Atari ST, Macintosh, and Amiga.
Kernighan and Ritchie compatible C compiler
Support for extended memory up to 16M on 286 and 386
32-bit versions of MINIX 386 is in works
POSIX compliance anticipated in 1992 as well as ANSI C Compiler
won't run UNIX V/386 ABI executables
----------------------
Vendor: The Santa Cruz Operation
Product: SCO XENIX System V Release 2.3
Contact info: info@sco.com
(408) 425-7222
(800) 726-8649 sales and dealer referral
Price: base (2 user): $595
development: $795
text proc. sys: $195
Minimum Config: 286, 386, 486; ISA, MCA;
1MB mem (286) 2MB (386), 20MB disk
Support: 30 days free warranty phone support upon registration
Free anonymous uucp access to support distributions
Variety of extra-cost support options
Special programs for software/hardware developers
Documentation: Excellent hard-copy; on-line man pages bundled in the text pkg
File System: XENIX System V filesystem
Drivers: Adaptec SCSI, SMS OMTI ESDI, plain ST-506
Many misc. drivers for serial cards, tapes, mouses
Networking: $395 (+$395 develop): TCP/IP (2-user, not for 286)
$695 ($595 for 286): XENIX-NET
X11 Support: $395 (+$395 develop): Xsight (not avail for 286)
MS-DOS Support: Ability to xfer files between DOS and *nix
can compile to DOS from *nix
$495: VP/ix (2-user, 386 only)
Miscellaneous: (relative) ease of system administration
most common 386 *nix on the market
----------------------
Vendor: The Santa Cruz Operation
Product: SCO UNIX System V Release 3.2 Version 2
Contact info: info@sco.com
(408) 425-7222
(800) 726-8649 sales and dealer referral
Price: base (2 user): $595
development: $995
Minimum Config: (3,4)86; (E)ISA, MCA, MPX;
4MB mem, 40MB disk
Support: 30 days free warranty phone support upon registration
Free anonymous uucp access to support distributions
Variety of extra-cost support options
Special programs for software/hardware developers
Documentation: excellent, online man pages included in OS,
Extensive Development System docs, Device Driver Writer Guide
File System: AFS (Acer File System) -- fast filesystem,
System V 1K; DOS and XENIX partitions can be mounted also
Drivers: Adaptec SCSI, SMS OMTI ESDI, plain ST-506,
EISA and MPX special drivers, CDROM
80387 and Weitek
Many misc. drivers for serial cards, tapes, mouses
Networking: Streams bundled,
$395: NFS (2-user); $395 (+$395 develop): TCP/IP (2-user)
X11 Support: $395 (+$395 develop): Xsight
MS-DOS Support: Ability to mount DOS partition as a filesystem
File transfer utilities
can compile to DOS from *nix
$495: VP/ix (2-user)
Miscellaneous: (relative) ease of system administration
most common 386 *nix on the market,
C2 security, Codeview, runs XENIX applications,
The 3.2 Vers.2 product is much faster
(reportedly) still a bit buggy
----------------------
Vendor: The Santa Cruz Operation
Product: Open Desktop, release 1.0
Contact info: info@sco.com
(408) 425-7222
(800) 726-8649 sales and dealer referral
Price: base: $995
development: $1495
server upgrade: $1495
Minimum Config: (3,4)86; (E)ISA, MCA; (E,V,SV,EV)GA, Herc.
6MB mem (8 rec.), 100 MB disk (150 rec.).
Support: 30 days free warranty phone support upon registration
Free anonymous uucp access to support distributions
Variety of extra-cost support options
Special programs for software/hardware developers
Documentation: 2 manuals, complete on-line man pages, optional doc pkg avail.
File System: AFS (Acer File System) -- fast filesystem
System V 1K; DOS and XENIX partitions can be mounted also
NFS - Network File System
Drivers: Ethernet: 3Com and Western Digital
SCSI: Adaptec; ESDI: SMS; Others.
EISA and MPX special drivers, CDROM
Video: many VGA, super VGA
80387 or Weitek 1167
Various mice, tape, serial cards
Networking: TCP/IP, NFS (server and client) and LAN Manager client bundled,
Streams, NFS & TCP/IP devel. w/development system
X11 Support: SCO X/Sight with Motif bundled
X lib, X toolkit, Motif, Xhibit desktop w/devel. system
MS-DOS Support: ODT-DOS included (cf. Merge) - runs DOS as UNIX process
DOS partition as filesystem, or emulated DOS partition
Can compile to DOS from *nix, file transfer utilities
Miscellaneous: SCO UNIX + X11R3 + TCP/IP + NFS + Ingres + Merge
Ingres RDBMS included (except for ABF)
(relative) ease of system administration
Tape version available
----------------------
Vendor: UHC
Product: UNIX System V Release 4.0
Contact info: ...!uunet!uch!sam
(713) 782-2700
Price: base (2 user): $895
development: $995
complete: $1995
Minimum Config:
Support:
Documentation:
File System: standard System V filesystem
Drivers: SCSI, ESDI, Mouse
Networking: $695
X11 Support: $795
MS-DOS Support:
Miscellaneous:
----------------------
* PLEASE NOTE: This list does not speak for any of the vendors (or
* anybody else, for that matter), prices and support subject to change.
* This is for informational purposes only. Noone should buy based
* solely upon the information here -- actual details should be gathered
* from the manufacturer.
--
Wade Guthrie (evil@arcturus.UUCP) | "The likelihood of one individual being
...uunet!ccicpg!felix!arcturus!evil | right increases with direct proportion to
Rockwell International; Anaheim, CA | the intensity with which others are trying
My opinions, not my employer's. | to prove him wrong", Mr. Jordanpatrick@whistle.kai.com (Patrick Wolfe) (02/04/91)
evil@arcturus.uucp (Wade Guthrie) writes: >Vendor: Intel >Product: UNIX System V 4 Electronic News from last week reported that Intel has dropped out of the Unix operating system business. They apparently "gave" their SVR4 to Interactive, which will be releasing the ready to sell OS package in April (probably after printing all new boxes and documentation with their name on it). Since Intel dropped out of the Unix workstation market (because of complaints from their processor chip customers), which would have used their own brand of OS, and they only had a few hundred other Unix OS customers, they gave up on the OS business altogether. Patrick Wolfe, System Programmer, Kuck and Associates Internet: patrick@whistle.kai.com UUCP: uunet!kailand!whistle!patrick