[comp.unix.sysv386] Dell SVR4 on non-Dell hardware?

neils@microsoft.UUCP (Neil SMITH) (01/26/91)

Does anyone have experience running Dell SVR4 on generic ISA bus 386
systems?  I'm particularly interested in:

	1.  motherboard/BIOS combinations
	2.  VGA (or higher res) video adapters

that do/don't work.

I have talked to Dell technical support and the standard line is "well, 
we've tested it on our hardware only...".  Not too helpful, but 
somewhat understandable given they'd like to sell me one of their
systems...

Email me directly; if there's enough interest I'll summarize.

thanks - neil

sblair@upurbmw.dell.com (Steve Blair) (01/30/91)

[Here's some things to keep in mind. I'm not going to flame Neil]
[about calling us...not my style...]

We have a business, like other manufacturers. You're not able
to run *SUNOS* on an Apollo, or visa versa. You *can* port
BSD Tahoe 4.3 to a "X" machine, and in time get it running.

We chose early on to have our SYS V.4 on our machines first.

Then, we agreed(as our *salesfolks will say*) to "see" what
other machines our SYS V.4 will run on.

Since I'm one of the folks that deal with machine issues,
let me see what I can do to clarify our position...

**IF YOU INTEND TO RUN DELL's SYS V.4, on *non-DELL* h/w:
---------------------------------------------------------

1) Disk Controllers: ESDI -- Ultrastor
	 	SCSI -- Adaptec 1542B
*are currently the "supported" controllers*

2) Ethernet cards: WD8003, WD8003e WD8003-10BaseT
*are the currently supported controllers*(3Com, in future)

3) Tape Controllers/Tape Drives: Adaptec *QIC150/250* drive
			Adaptec Tape Controller
*are the *ONLY* supported controller & drive*

4) Video Controllers: VGA -- DELL/Paradise VGA(640x480)
			GPX -- DELL GPX card(1024x768)

5) Memory:  A good recommendation is a *MINIMUM* of 4Mb's
	*for non X Windows based users*
	*FOR X WINDOWS USERS -- 8Mb's or *more*(!!!)*

**As we get more feedback, and customers applying DELL V.4
to *non-DELL* machines, sending email to us will allow us
to be better "able" to publish a listing of what "other"
customers using DELL's SYS V.4 are running it on.
If you've got more questions, you can email us as:

	support@uudell.dell.com
-- 
Steve Blair	DELL	UNIX	DIVISION sblair@upurbmw.dell.com
================================================================
Q: What Do Nagasaki, Hiroshima and Baghdad have in common?
A: Nothing Yet !!

larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (01/31/91)

neils@microsoft.UUCP (Neil SMITH) writes:

>I have talked to Dell technical support and the standard line is "well, 
>we've tested it on our hardware only...".  Not too helpful, but 
>somewhat understandable given they'd like to sell me one of their
>systems...

But then Dell gives a 30 day no questions asked refund -

how many other vendors offer such a policy?

-- 
   Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287 (HST/PEP/V.32/v.42bis)
                        regional UUCP mapping coordinator 
  {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar!larry, larry%nstar@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu}

james@bigtex.cactus.org (James Van Artsdalen) (02/02/91)

In <14656@uudell.dell.com>, sblair@upurbmw.dell.com (Steve Blair) wrote:

> 4) Video Controllers: VGA -- DELL/Paradise VGA(640x480)
> 			GPX -- DELL GPX card(1024x768)

To be more specific, for regular console usage (non-X),

1. the 8 and 16 bit Paradise PVGA1A boards are supported,
2. the Video-7 16 bit board is supported,
3. the Sigma Legend and STB Powergraph ET-4000 boards are supported,
4. the 90c11 in the builtin configuration on our products is supported.
   This should be close enough to any add-on 90c11 product for it to
   work in text mode, but I haven't actually seen it yet.

For X, the list is currently narrower, with the exception that the GPX
is supported.

> 5) Memory:  A good recommendation is a *MINIMUM* of 4Mb's
> 	*for non X Windows based users*
> 	*FOR X WINDOWS USERS -- 8Mb's or *more*(!!!)*

Quick correction: the global minimum, I believe, is 8meg.
-- 
James R. Van Artsdalen          james@bigtex.cactus.org   "Live Free or Die"
Dell Computer Co    9505 Arboretum Blvd Austin TX 78759         512-338-8789

mjhammel@Kepler.dell.com (Michael J. Hammel) (02/02/91)

In article <14656@uudell.dell.com>, sblair@upurbmw.dell.com (Steve
Blair) writes:
> 
> 2) Ethernet cards: WD8003, WD8003e WD8003-10BaseT
> *are the currently supported controllers*(3Com, in future)
> 

Just to clarify:

thats WD8003EB, WD8003EP, WD8013EBT, and WD8005TR (the latter is a token
ring card, although token ring functionality is less than "perfect"). 
The WD8003EBT (twisted pair ethernet, AKA 10BaseT) should also work,
although it hasn't explicitly been tested.

We hope to have 3Com 3C503 support "real soon now". ;-)

Michael J. Hammel        | mjhammel@{Kepler|socrates}.dell.com
Dell Computer Corp.      | {73377.3467|76424.3024}@compuserve.com
#include <disclaim/std>  | zzham@ttuvm1.bitnet | uunet!uudell!feynman!mjhammel
#define CUTESAYING "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way."

davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (02/04/91)

In article <14656@uudell.dell.com> sblair@upurbmw.dell.com (Steve Blair) writes:

  The right hand does not know what the left hand is doing here, Steve.
Let me make some comments based on both personal experience and what the
*Dell manual says*. ("Working with Dell UNIX") What you say seems at
variance to some of that information.

| **IF YOU INTEND TO RUN DELL's SYS V.4, on *non-DELL* h/w:
| ---------------------------------------------------------
| 
| 1) Disk Controllers: ESDI -- Ultrastor
| 	 	SCSI -- Adaptec 1542B
| *are currently the "supported" controllers*

  The manual says "Supported types are integrated drive electronics
(IDE) enhanced small device interface (ESDI), and small systems computer
interface (SCSI). Experience says the WD100X series works, and I'm
running one system with a DTE.

| 2) Ethernet cards: WD8003, WD8003e WD8003-10BaseT
| *are the currently supported controllers*(3Com, in future)

  The manual lists the 8013 and admits it doesn't auto configure.

| 3) Tape Controllers/Tape Drives: Adaptec *QIC150/250* drive
| 			Adaptec Tape Controller
| *are the *ONLY* supported controller & drive*

  My beta stuff said Wangtek PC-36 and EV-811, and experience says they
both work, with the 5099 or 5125 drives.
| 
| 4) Video Controllers: VGA -- DELL/Paradise VGA(640x480)
| 			GPX -- DELL GPX card(1024x768)

  Most VGas work well, although the ET4000 chipset may have a funniness
with the sysadmin menu stuff (haven't gone back to the old VGA to test).

| 5) Memory:  A good recommendation is a *MINIMUM* of 4Mb's
| 	*for non X Windows based users*
| 	*FOR X WINDOWS USERS -- 8Mb's or *more*(!!!)*

  The manual says 4 to run and 8 to install. And at least on an SX you
will find X disgustingly slow until you add the 387. Don't own a 386DX
without FPU, so I can't say how that would work. I have no handle on
finding out what memory is doing on V.4, because the free memory seems
to become disk buffers. When I went from 8 to 12 MB I checked with both
sar and perfmon and saw free memory reported go from 400k to 1200k. I
conclude there's no easy way to tell if you have enough memory, although
you can look at page faults. 12MB doesn't seem much better than 8, so
either "8 is enough" or even 12 is grossly inadequate.
-- 
bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen)
    sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX
    moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list
"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me

mdm@mondy.UUCP (Michael D. Mondy) (02/09/91)

In article <14656@uudell.dell.com> sblair@upurbmw.dell.com (Steve Blair) writes:
steve> [...]
steve> **IF YOU INTEND TO RUN DELL's SYS V.4, on *non-DELL* h/w:
steve> [...]
steve> 3) Tape Controllers/Tape Drives: Adaptec *QIC150/250* drive
steve> 			Adaptec Tape Controller
steve> *are the *ONLY* supported controller & drive*

In article <3085@sixhub.UUCP> davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes:
bill>   My beta stuff said Wangtek PC-36 and EV-811, and experience says they
bill> both work, with the 5099 or 5125 drives.
bill>  

   Dell used to (still does?) sell the Wangtek 5150EQ drive which uses a 
QIC-02 interface (as opposed to a SCSI or QIC-36 interface).  The adaptor
for this drive is the PC-02.  It appears that the device driver also
supports the PC-36 adaptor which uses QIC-36 to the wangtek 5xxxEK and
5xxxEN drives?
   I cannot imagine that Dell would drop support for hardware that they sell
when coming out with a new release of unix!  It would not exactly have a
positive effect on customer upgrades :).
   Anybody know which adaptors are functionally equivalent to each other?
I imagine people would like to run scsi tape drives off of the 1542; perhaps
someone at Dell can comment on when support for this will be available.
BTW: All versions of /usr/include/sys/wtioctl.h that I have seen were
totally bogus.

>In article <14656@uudell.dell.com> Steve also writes:
steve> 
steve> 4) Video Controllers: VGA -- DELL/Paradise VGA(640x480)
steve> 			GPX -- DELL GPX card(1024x768)

In article <3085@sixhub.UUCP> Bill also writes:
bill>  Most VGas work well, although the ET4000 chipset may have a funniness
bill>with the sysadmin menu stuff (haven't gone back to the old VGA to test).
bill>

   I purchased a Paradise Vga Professional before Dell started selling that
card or selling unix.  I bought it because it was 100% HARDWARE compatible
with the IBM.  Since it works, I'd IMAGINE that any other 100% hardware
compatible would work - at least at standard resolutions.

Mike Mondy - mdm@mondy.uucp

davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (02/11/91)

In article <290@mondy.UUCP> mdm%mondy@ralph.lafayette.la.us writes:

|    I purchased a Paradise Vga Professional before Dell started selling that
| card or selling unix.  I bought it because it was 100% HARDWARE compatible
| with the IBM.  Since it works, I'd IMAGINE that any other 100% hardware
| compatible would work - at least at standard resolutions.

  I ripped the code out of fractint to put a standard IBM VGA (and all
the goof CGA clones I ever tried) into 800x600 mode, and I E-mailed it
to Dell V.4 development. I suggested that it would be a great thing to
put in their X server. I guess they're not doing that (although I
expect a new X server, possibly two) out of Dell by the end of the
month. The comment was made that interlaced mode is not "visually
acceptable" for X. I am really unhappy with any vendor who tells me that
something wouldn't be acceptable to customers, when other programs use
the feature and are accepted.

  I have been assurred that the Rowell server will be out, an enhanced
version of the current server is also being developed, and that the AT&T
X and NeWS server will come out eventually. Note that Dell decided to go
with X11R4 and give up NeWS, rather than stay with X11R3, and I think
that's a reasonable decision.

-- 
bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen)
    sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX
    moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list
"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me

tim@dell.co.uk (Tim Wright) (02/11/91)

In <290@mondy.UUCP> mdm@mondy.UUCP (Michael D. Mondy) writes:

>In article <14656@uudell.dell.com> sblair@upurbmw.dell.com (Steve Blair) writes:
>steve> [...]
>steve> **IF YOU INTEND TO RUN DELL's SYS V.4, on *non-DELL* h/w:
>steve> [...]
>steve> 3) Tape Controllers/Tape Drives: Adaptec *QIC150/250* drive
>steve> 			Adaptec Tape Controller
>steve> *are the *ONLY* supported controller & drive*

>In article <3085@sixhub.UUCP> davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes:
>bill>   My beta stuff said Wangtek PC-36 and EV-811, and experience says they
>bill> both work, with the 5099 or 5125 drives.
>bill>  

>   Dell used to (still does?) sell the Wangtek 5150EQ drive which uses a 
>QIC-02 interface (as opposed to a SCSI or QIC-36 interface).  The adaptor
>for this drive is the PC-02.  It appears that the device driver also
>supports the PC-36 adaptor which uses QIC-36 to the wangtek 5xxxEK and
>5xxxEN drives?
>   I cannot imagine that Dell would drop support for hardware that they sell
>when coming out with a new release of unix!  It would not exactly have a
>positive effect on customer upgrades :).
>   Anybody know which adaptors are functionally equivalent to each other?
>I imagine people would like to run scsi tape drives off of the 1542; perhaps
>someone at Dell can comment on when support for this will be available.

I'm not really a hardware guru but I *think* that QIC-02 is a subset of
QIC-36 i.e. yes QIC-02 drives do indeed work. Having fooled around with a
few Quarter Inch Cartridge drives under V4 (including the 5150EQ), I have
yet to find one that won't work.
Your mileage may vary :-)
Tim
--
Tim Wright, Dell Computer Corp. (UK) | Email address
Bracknell, Berkshire, RG12 1RW       | Domain: tim@dell.co.uk
Tel: +44-344-860456                  | Uucp: ...!ukc!delluk!tim
"What's the problem? You've got an IQ of six thousand, haven't you?"