[comp.unix.sysv386] VPix & Dos partition

erast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Evan R Aussenberg) (02/04/91)

In article <1991Feb03.210343.18244@chinet.chi.il.us> les@chinet.chi.il.us
(Leslie Mikesell) writes:

>I haven't done any formal timing but the general feeling I get is that
>VP/ix disk operations tend to be faster than native DOS due to the
>better performance of the unix disk cache.

>Les Mikesell
> les@chinet.chi.il.us

I've been using pkunzip alot under ISC/VPix lately.  While the
program seems to work at the same speed as native DOS, writing
to our Micropolis 320meg scsi is noticably slower than if I access
the DOS partition via native DOS.  This was true even if I was
the only login.  In fact, I installed some commercial software
(about 10megs worth) on the dos partition by booting DOS from
floppy because disk writing seemed faster to me than doing the
same from VPix.

Any comments?  For your reference, the computer is an Intel 
model 302, 25mhz, 8meg.

BTW- the above is not true when VPix is writing to the unix
partitions.


Evan
-- 
Evan Ron Aussenberg
erast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
IN%"erast1@pittunix"

les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) (02/07/91)

In article <87004@unix.cis.pitt.edu> erast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Evan R Aussenberg) writes:

>I've been using pkunzip alot under ISC/VPix lately.  While the
>program seems to work at the same speed as native DOS, writing
>to our Micropolis 320meg scsi is noticably slower than if I access
>the DOS partition via native DOS.  This was true even if I was
>the only login.  In fact, I installed some commercial software
>(about 10megs worth) on the dos partition by booting DOS from
>floppy because disk writing seemed faster to me than doing the
>same from VPix.

>Any comments?  For your reference, the computer is an Intel 
>model 302, 25mhz, 8meg.

On mine, there is only a slight difference, but I'm running a Conner
IDE drive which has on-board buffering.  Perhaps you are close to
missing the interleave on the disk and the overhead of VP/ix is
enough to miss and require another disk revolution.

Les Mikesell
 les@chinet.chi.il.us

erast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Evan R Aussenberg) (02/07/91)

In article <1991Feb07.011850.19550@chinet.chi.il.us> les@chinet.chi.il.us
(Leslie Mikesell) writes:

|[I say]:
| >writing [ with VPix & ISC ] to our Micropolis 320meg scsi is
| >noticably slower than if I access the DOS partition via native DOS...

| >For your reference, the computer is an Intel model 302, 25mhz, 8meg.

|On mine, there is only a slight difference, but I'm running a Conner
|IDE drive which has on-board buffering.  Perhaps you are close to
|missing the interleave on the disk and the overhead of VP/ix is
|enough to miss and require another disk revolution.

|Les Mikesell
|les@chinet.chi.il.us

The Micropolis we have is a voice coil hd with on-board cache as
well.  The interleave of the whole drive is 1:1 because our adaptec
scsi board supports it.  It may well be that the drive is too fast
at 1:1 for VPix.  I don't think you can change the interleave of 
a partition?

The slowdown is typically in the writing.  Reading the DOS partition
under VPix is at least as fast as naitive DOS.

On a semi-related note.  The adaptec 154xB scsi board we have supports
synchronous data transfers to/from its peripherals.  The Mircropolis
drive has a jumper which puts it in "synchronous mode" if available
(that's the best I gather from the docs).  Is there any way to know
for sure that the two are talking synchronously?

Also, how high has anyone set the transfer rate on the adaptec board.
From memory, I think I put the shunt on the 6.x transfer rate.
(It goes to 10ish I think).

Thankyou for all the replies, here and email.  For those interested,
my email replies have concurred with the public posts.


Evan
-- 
Evan Ron Aussenberg
erast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
IN%"erast1@pittunix"

larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (02/08/91)

erast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Evan R Aussenberg) writes:

>Also, how high has anyone set the transfer rate on the adaptec board.
>From memory, I think I put the shunt on the 6.x transfer rate.
>(It goes to 10ish I think).

those jumpers don't matter - the transfer rate is set in the kernel 
which overrides the jumpers on the board --

-- 
   Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287 (HST/PEP/V.32/v.42bis)
                        regional UUCP mapping coordinator 
  {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar!larry, larry%nstar@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu}

allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery KB8JRR) (02/10/91)

As quoted from <87004@unix.cis.pitt.edu> by erast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Evan R Aussenberg):
+---------------
| I've been using pkunzip alot under ISC/VPix lately.  While the
| program seems to work at the same speed as native DOS, writing
| to our Micropolis 320meg scsi is noticably slower than if I access
| the DOS partition via native DOS.  This was true even if I was
| the only login.  In fact, I installed some commercial software
| (about 10megs worth) on the dos partition by booting DOS from
| floppy because disk writing seemed faster to me than doing the
| same from VPix.
+---------------

This depends on the implementation.  If the DOS filesystem is emulated by
VP/ix, then it'll be slow.  If a DOS filesystem type has been added to the
kernel via the File System Switch mechanism (SCO supports this, at least under
SCO UNIX) then you get fast access... and you can mount the DOS partition and
use it from UNIX as well.  (Arguably, a silly thing to do.)  It also depends
on whether the VP/ix code uses the UNIX disk cache (it's not dependent on UNIX
file systems, at least on the systems I've used) or the "raw" device.

++Brandon
-- 
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Internet: allbery@NCoast.ORG		    Packet: KB8JRR @ WA8BXN
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tmh@bigfoot.FOKUS.GMD.DBP.DE (Thomas Hoberg) (02/19/91)

In article <88612@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, erast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Evan R
Aussenberg) writes:
|> In article <1991Feb07.011850.19550@chinet.chi.il.us> les@chinet.chi.il.us
|> (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
|> 
|> |[I say]:
|> | >writing [ with VPix & ISC ] to our Micropolis 320meg scsi is
|> | >noticably slower than if I access the DOS partition via native DOS...
|> 
|> | >For your reference, the computer is an Intel model 302, 25mhz, 8meg.
|> 
|> |On mine, there is only a slight difference, but I'm running a Conner
|> |IDE drive which has on-board buffering.  Perhaps you are close to
|> |missing the interleave on the disk and the overhead of VP/ix is
|> |enough to miss and require another disk revolution.
|> 
|> |Les Mikesell
|> |les@chinet.chi.il.us
|> 
|> The Micropolis we have is a voice coil hd with on-board cache as
|> well.  The interleave of the whole drive is 1:1 because our adaptec
|> scsi board supports it.  It may well be that the drive is too fast
|> at 1:1 for VPix.  I don't think you can change the interleave of 
|> a partition?
I did once on an MFM drive. 2:1 was ideal for DOS, but Micoport Unix 286 was
too slow for that. So I wrote a small Turbo Pascal program and reformatted the
Unix partition 3:1. Once Microport added RLL support, an Adaptec 2372 made it
at 1:1. I don't think you can and in any case you wouldn't want to do that on
a SCSI drive.
|> 
|> The slowdown is typically in the writing.  Reading the DOS partition
|> under VPix is at least as fast as naitive DOS.
|> 
I don't think it's interleaving but ISC's super careful approach to writing
on a DOS file system. It's not a VPIX problem but a DOS-file-system problem
as writing times deteriorate just as badly when the writing is done via Unix.
VPIX talks to Unix for all file i/o and cannot tell a DOS partition from a 
Unix file system.
I had planned to back up my DOS partitions under UNIX with a streamer. Backing
up is no problem, but the restores are too slow to be useful.
I believe that ISC immediately writes back any changes to the FAT and all data
blocks. This incurrs lots of seeks for every data block written and causes 
write rates to drop below floppy values.
Since changing this behavior for the DOS file system seems to be a major effort
the only solution here is to use the Unix file system even under VPIX, but then
some people need to use native DOS on their data, too...
|> On a semi-related note.  The adaptec 154xB scsi board we have supports
|> synchronous data transfers to/from its peripherals.  The Mircropolis
|> drive has a jumper which puts it in "synchronous mode" if available
|> (that's the best I gather from the docs).  Is there any way to know
|> for sure that the two are talking synchronously?
|> 
Roy Neese's SCSI tools will tell you. For me sync vs. async changed the
performance from 1295KB/s to 1300KB/s, so it's not really worth it. You should
not set the sync mode on both the Adaptec and the drive as least if the 'sync'
jumper on the drive means 'negociate for sync mode' rather than 'enable sync
mode'. That would cause conflicts.
|> Also, how high has anyone set the transfer rate on the adaptec board.
|> From memory, I think I put the shunt on the 6.x transfer rate.
|> (It goes to 10ish I think).
|> 
According to what I remember from one of Roy's comments, 6.7 MB is considered
ideal. By the way, the best tool I found to measure the effects of all that
jumpering and bus tuning is called 'bonnie'. I am quite happy to be faster in
all cases than a Sparc 470...
|> 
|> Evan
|> -- 
|> Evan Ron Aussenberg
|> erast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
|> IN%"erast1@pittunix"
--tom
----
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marz@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.zam) (02/20/91)

:From: les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell)
:
:>I've been using pkunzip alot under ISC/VPix lately.  While the
:>program seems to work at the same speed as native DOS, writing
:>to our Micropolis 320meg scsi is noticably slower than if I access
:>the DOS partition via native DOS.  This was true even if I was
:>the only login.  In fact, I installed some commercial software
:>(about 10megs worth) on the dos partition by booting DOS from
:>floppy because disk writing seemed faster to me than doing the
:>same from VPix.
:
:>Any comments?  For your reference, the computer is an Intel 
:>model 302, 25mhz, 8meg.
:
:On mine, there is only a slight difference, but I'm running a Conner
:IDE drive which has on-board buffering.  Perhaps you are close to
:missing the interleave on the disk and the overhead of VP/ix is
:enough to miss and require another disk revolution.
:
:Les Mikesell
: les@chinet.chi.il.us
:
When I run Norton Advanced v4.5 on my 33Mhz 386 with 320Mbyte ESDI,
I get the following figures:

	PURE DOS 4.01			VPIX under UNIX
	CI = 39.7			CI = 34.3
	DI = 21.5			DI = 332.5
	PI = 33.6			PI = 133.7

I figure the difference in Computing Index (CI) accounts for
emulation overhead.  The difference in Disk Index (DI) may
indicate that all of my C: drive fits into UNIX buffer cache.
The Performance Index (PI) indicates the composite throughput.

Anybody else with interesting performance stats?

						Martin Zam
						(201)564-2554