nealpo@b1.ism.isc.com (Neal Pollack) (03/06/91)
In article <1991Mar02.031353.12053@jadpc.cts.com> jdeitch@jadpc.cts.com (Jim Deitch) writes: >>Any bugs or problems, serious or trivial, can be reported to: >>support@ism.isc.com >>All mail to this alias has been and will continue to be >>acknowledged. >> >>Interactive Systems Corporation Support > >Is this new? I tried to send mail to this account about 2-3 months >ago and it bounced, saying that user was unknown? If you want I can >probably dig up the headers. > >Jim Mail can bounce for a multitude of reasons. Failure of various leased lines, a corrupted mail alias file after an "Edit Adventure :-)", or occasional name server problems, the list goes on and on. If anyone has any trouble sending mail to accounts at Interactive (support, or any employee), please contact Neal Pollack with a description of the trouble. Please include the full text of the mail header, with the error code and description. Mail problems for ISC can be addressed to: nealpo@ism.isc.com, postmaster@ism.isc.com, uunet!ism!nealpo, or uunet!ism!postmaster. Alternatively, you may call 213-453-8649 and leave voice mail if I am not present. Sincererly, Neal Pollack Network Admin Interactive Systems Corporation
ronald@robobar.co.uk (Ronald S H Khoo) (03/07/91)
nealpo@ism.isc.com (Neal Pollack) writes: > Mail can bounce for a multitude of reasons. Failure of various leased > lines, a corrupted mail alias file after an "Edit Adventure :-)", > or occasional name server problems, the list goes on and on. Heh. Do the mailers at ISC Support support Return-Receipt-To: tickets ? Some of the ones at SCO do. If you have a replyable address, you can gain confidence that your mail to support@sco.com got there because it's mailed you back :-) This can result in a rather full mailbox because you get a separate ack from each of a whole list of recipients. (It would probably be better to set it up so that only the gateway machine ack'd it.) It also helps keep the guys who are meant to deal with the problems on the ball -- they know that the complainant knows that the problem report has got there! -- Ronald Khoo <ronald@robobar.co.uk> +44 81 991 1142 (O) +44 71 229 7741 (H)
nealpo@b1.ism.isc.com (Neal Pollack) (03/09/91)
In article <1991Mar7.102132.15620@robobar.co.uk> ronald@robobar.co.uk (Ronald S H Khoo) writes: > >Heh. Do the mailers at ISC Support support Return-Receipt-To: tickets ? >Some of the ones at SCO do. If you have a replyable address, you can >gain confidence that your mail to support@sco.com got there because >it's mailed you back :-) This can result in a rather full mailbox >because you get a separate ack from each of a whole list of >recipients. (It would probably be better to set it up so that only >the gateway machine ack'd it.) It also helps keep the guys who are meant >to deal with the problems on the ball -- they know that the complainant >knows that the problem report has got there! > >-- >Ronald Khoo <ronald@robobar.co.uk> +44 81 991 1142 (O) +44 71 229 7741 (H) ISC uses sendmail. Sendmail does support the return receipt, however, most user level mail programs that make and send your message do not. The Return-Receipt-To: header must be inserted prior to the Subject: line in order for it to work. While the experienced, Internet connected user can do "telnet ism.isc.com 25", and construct the entire message by hand, this is beyond most users. I do not expect that mail, mailx, or things like elm will put this header in for you, though I could be corrected. Our Ten Plus user level mail software does permit this, so I would assume that there are other packages out there that may permit it as an option. P.S. The return receipt comes back to the user as mail from MAILER-DAEMON, and therefore would probably be confused with a mail bounce unless you noticed the subtle "returned mail: return receipt" on the subject line buried in all those mail headers :-) However, this may be useful for the curious. Sincerely, Neal Pollack Postmaster ism.isc.com
richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) (03/11/91)
>ISC uses sendmail. Sendmail does support the return receipt, however, >most user level mail programs that make and send your message do not. >The Return-Receipt-To: header must be inserted prior to the Subject: line >in order for it to work. While the experienced, Internet connected user >can do "telnet ism.isc.com 25", and construct the entire message by hand, >this is beyond most users. I do not expect that mail, mailx, or things >like elm will put this header in for you, though I could be corrected. Since ISC's mailx has some really nasty bugs (at least in 2.0.2), I'd imagine that many sites have installed replacement mailers like elm, mush, etc. I think most of these will actually allow you to edit the header fairly easily (unlike mailx). (ISC's mailx produced the first 16-megabyte core dumps I've ever suffered though. Sure slooows the machine down for a while.) >Our Ten Plus user level mail software does permit this, so I would >assume that there are other packages out there that may permit it >as an option. Just so people here don't get the wrong idea, here's one vote that says Ten Plus isn't worth the price of the floppies they ship it on. Just my opinion but, what a waste of time. Too bad you can't return junk software like you can junk books. These are just little morsels that I seemed to have stashed away for the right opportunity. (If ISC's apparent new-leaf on support is for real I may be forced to stop being so hard on them. Who knows, maybe they'll even offer to repay me for the support I was denied a year+ ago when I first bought into their expensive can of worms.) -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com
cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) (03/11/91)
nealpo@b1.ism.isc.com (Neal Pollack) writes: >this is beyond most users. I do not expect that mail, mailx, or things >like elm will put this header in for you, though I could be corrected. You can do this with ELM by adding the line: Return-Receipt-To: your_login_goes_here into the elmheaders file in the ~/.elm directory. -- Conor P. Cahill (703)430-9247 Virtual Technologies, Inc. uunet!virtech!cpcahil 46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160 Sterling, VA 22170
jdeitch@jadpc.cts.com (Jim Deitch) (03/12/91)
In article <1991Mar11.024148.19030@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes: >nealpo@b1.ism.isc.com (Neal Pollack) writes: >>this is beyond most users. I do not expect that mail, mailx, or things >>like elm will put this header in for you, though I could be corrected. > >You can do this with ELM by adding the line: > > Return-Receipt-To: your_login_goes_here > >into the elmheaders file in the ~/.elm directory. > >-- >Conor P. Cahill (703)430-9247 Virtual Technologies, Inc. >uunet!virtech!cpcahil 46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160 > Sterling, VA 22170 I would recommend against putting it in the elmheaders file. I put return receipt in there and then I posted to a mailing list. I got back 250 return receipts. The problem in the elmheaders file is that you cannot edit it out for such things. It gets inserted after you tell Elm to send the mail. A better place would be when elm asks if you want to send the mail, just tell it (u)ser defined header and then insert the line there. I posted about this in comp.mail.elm 2-3 weeks ago. All I got back was a guy saying the above to me. No word from Syd or anyone else. Jim -- ARPANET: jadpc!jdeitch@nosc.mil INTERNET: jdeitch@jadpc.cts.com UUCP: nosc!jadpc!jdeitch
grant@bluemoon.uucp (Grant DeLorean) (03/13/91)
richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes: >>ISC uses sendmail. Sendmail does support the return receipt, however, >>most user level mail programs that make and send your message do not. The sendmail ISC supplied (at least the one I got from them with 2.2) was brain dead. It spawned several copies of itself daily, none of which would go away and after a couple of days crash the system. Thankfully, smail 3.1 is around... >Since ISC's mailx has some really nasty bugs (at least in 2.0.2), I'd >imagine that many sites have installed replacement mailers like elm, >mush, etc. I think most of these will actually allow you to edit the >header fairly easily (unlike mailx). The mailx with 2.2 was OK (as OK as mailx gets...). It doesn't hurt to install ELM anyway, much nicer. :-} >Just so people here don't get the wrong idea, here's one vote that >says Ten Plus isn't worth the price of the floppies they ship it on. >Just my opinion but, what a waste of time. Too bad you can't return >junk software like you can junk books. I'll second that vote. I know at least 3 other folks who agree too (we don't even install it anymore). Hmm, I just realized this is a sort of negative post. It isn't meant that way, I really think ISC is the best game in town at this time. -- Grant DeLorean (grant@bluemoon) {n8emr|nstar}!bluemoon!grant "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating
jim@tct.uucp (Jim Kunzman) (03/18/91)
According to grant@bluemoon.uucp (Grant DeLorean): >richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes: > >>>ISC uses sendmail. Sendmail does support the return receipt, however, >>>most user level mail programs that make and send your message do not. > > The sendmail ISC supplied (at least the one I got from them with 2.2) >was brain dead. It spawned several copies of itself daily, none of which >would go away and after a couple of days crash the system. Thankfully, >smail 3.1 is around... > >>Since ISC's mailx has some really nasty bugs (at least in 2.0.2), I'd >>imagine that many sites have installed replacement mailers like elm, >>mush, etc. I think most of these will actually allow you to edit the >>header fairly easily (unlike mailx). > > The mailx with 2.2 was OK (as OK as mailx gets...). It doesn't hurt >to install ELM anyway, much nicer. :-} > >>Just so people here don't get the wrong idea, here's one vote that >>says Ten Plus isn't worth the price of the floppies they ship it on. >>Just my opinion but, what a waste of time. Too bad you can't return >>junk software like you can junk books. > > I'll second that vote. I know at least 3 other folks who agree too (we >don't even install it anymore). > > Hmm, I just realized this is a sort of negative post. It isn't meant >that way, I really think ISC is the best game in town at this time. Hmmm, a recent article in UNIX World stated that 80% of all installed 80x86 systems were SCO UNIX systems. Given that, and the fact that 80% of all commp.unix.sysv386 problem/bug reports are with ISC UNIX :-(, you might rethink your position! Judging by the traffic here, either ISC UNIX has a lot of problems, poor support and/or documentation, or a huge newbee base. :-) Perhaps a separate ISC newsgroup IS needed to reduce the noise level for non-ISC users. :-^) -- Jim Kunzman at Teltronics/TCT <jim@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!jim> !(This space intentionally left blank.)
sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) (03/20/91)
In article <27E4D211.5B78@tct.uucp> jim@tct.uucp (Jim Kunzman) writes: >Hmmm, a recent article in UNIX World stated that 80% of all installed >80x86 systems were SCO UNIX systems. I haven't read the article in question; however, from what I know of the figures, it should be: 80% of all 80x86 systems running *nix are running SCO XENIX (although I'm told that sco unix is starting to make its mark). -- Sean Eric Fagan | "I made the universe, but please don't blame me for it; sef@kithrup.COM | I had a bellyache at the time." -----------------+ -- The Turtle (Stephen King, _It_) Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) (03/20/91)
jim@tct.uucp (Jim Kunzman) writes: ... > Hmmm, a recent article in UNIX World stated that 80% of all installed > 80x86 systems were SCO UNIX systems. Given that, and the fact that > 80% of all commp.unix.sysv386 problem/bug reports are with ISC UNIX > :-(, you might rethink your position! Judging by the traffic here, > either ISC UNIX has a lot of problems, poor support and/or > documentation, or a huge newbee base. :-) Nah, we've seen this flame before. Truth be known, most of the 80% figure represents Xenix systems. Xenix has its own newsgroup. But hey, it's OK-- as the saying goes, "A cheap shot is a terrible thing to waste!" Perhaps only ISC users are doing anything sophisticated or interesting with their systems! (See, I'll take the cheap shot when it's offered.:-) (tct? You pinch-hitting for Chip S? Usually he gets first shot at these...) -- Dick Dunn rcd@ico.isc.com -or- ico!rcd Boulder, CO (303)449-2870 ...Relax...don't worry...have a homebrew.