pizzi@esacs.UUCP (Riccardo Pizzi) (01/02/91)
We installed recently the new SCO UNIX release, i.e. 3.2.2. I read a *lot* of people on the net saying that this new release is stable and is not buggy like 3.2.0 and 3.2.1. However, my first login on the newly installed system showed a very nasty bug in one of the most used commands, 'ls'. I wonder how it is possible that such a bug was not caught on the OS test phase, and therefore I think maybe it only shows under particular circumstances. Please, look at the output of the 'lc' command on my home directory: AAA house.c mbox remind22.5 sps.2 active.uunet hv@uwasa.fi mte215.zip.1 s.c sps.3 alt.groups hv@uwasa.fi.h mte215.zip.2 sb.1 sucker anonftp.sites i2u.info.h nws sb.2 TTT batchout.c i2u.info.i periodic sb.3 T1500.uunet casa maild prog sb.5 uunet.games ciuccia maild.c remind22.1 sb.6 uunet.unix conq4 Makefila remind22.2 sb.7 uunet.x ftp-server.h makefile remind22.3 sig gifhelp Makefile remind22.4 sps.1 In the ASCII character set, I have always thought the capital (upper case) letters should come *before* the lower case letters, but this seems not true for SCO... If we look at the following files: maild.c, Makefile, makefile e Makefila, we would expect to see the following: Makefila Makefile maild.c makefile now, take a look and see how SCO sorted the files... The first problem that comes to my mind is that the old habit of giving important files an uppercase name (or capitalized, as you prefer) does not work here... what a shame! I thought the bug could depend on the internationalization stuff, but never had the time to dig into it to debug the problem (I don't like SCO UNIX at all, agreeing with most developers out there so I don't want to do it, too). BTW: today I found that the numbers always come *after* all other letters: total 106 drwxr-xr-x 2 bin bin 32 Nov 19 13:22 backupfirst -rw-r--r-- 1 root other 0 Dec 31 23:50 croutPCHa00232 drwxrwxr-x 2 400 other 32 Dec 12 14:44 dd -rw------- 1 pizzi mmdf 12288 Jan 02 16:16 Ex23616 -rw------- 1 nick group 6144 Jan 02 16:16 Ex23751 drwxr-xr-x 20 bin bin 320 Nov 19 13:22 ID drwx------ 3 sys sys 48 Oct 24 18:22 init2 -rw-r--r-- 1 pizzi mmdf 112 Jan 02 15:48 posta23609 -rw------- 1 pizzi mmdf 11264 Jan 02 16:16 Rx23616 -rw------- 1 nick group 10240 Jan 02 16:16 Rx23751 -rw-r--r-- 1 nick group 551 Jan 02 16:06 sh237284 -rw-r--r-- 1 nick group 162 Jan 02 16:06 sh237285 -rw-r--r-- 1 nick group 184 Jan 02 16:06 sh237286 -rw-r--r-- 1 pizzi mmdf 2895 Jan 02 16:04 uffa -rw-r--r-- 1 pizzi mmdf 5 Jan 02 16:16 1st_time Anybody has a solution? Riccardo
sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) (01/03/91)
In article <41@esacs.UUCP> pizzi@esacs.UUCP (Riccardo Pizzi) writes: >We installed recently the new SCO UNIX release, i.e. 3.2.2. >I read a *lot* of people on the net saying that this new release is >stable and is not buggy like 3.2.0 and 3.2.1. >However, my first login on the newly installed system showed a very nasty >bug in one of the most used commands, 'ls'. >I wonder how it is possible that such a bug was not caught on the OS test >phase, and therefore I think maybe it only shows under particular >circumstances. Because it's not a bug. Here is an example showing that it seems to only happen to you: kithrup 4> cd /tmp kithrup 5> lf AAA doit.out post1 sh255895 Ex25602 foobar post2 sh255896 Rx25602 fooblech post3 t.c TTT gatemail* post4 test.log a.out* mono/ sco* trunc.c arb.passwd.203 msg sdbm1 ucscc arb.passwd.204 msg2 sdbm2 uucp/ cn/ out.foo sed.man doit* post sh255894 kithrup 6> lc AAA cn msg post4 sh255896 Ex25602 doit msg2 sco t.c Rx25602 doit.out out.foo sdbm1 test.log TTT foobar post sdbm2 trunc.c a.out fooblech post1 sed.man ucscc arb.passwd.203 gatemail post2 sh255894 uucp arb.passwd.204 mono post3 sh255895 Now, why don't you tell us what country your in, and what your LANG stuff is set to? Internationalisation, and all that, don't you know? Not all countries or languages sort the way English does. I am willing to bet that that's what your "problem" is... (for example, in my /etc/default/lang, I have: LANG=english_us.ascii) >In the ASCII character set, I have always thought the capital (upper case) >letters should come *before* the lower case letters, but this seems not true >for SCO... Who said you were using the ASCII character set? -- Sean Eric Fagan | "I made the universe, but please don't blame me for it; sef@kithrup.COM | I had a bellyache at the time." -----------------+ -- The Turtle (Stephen King, _It_) Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
larryp@sco.COM (Larry Philps) (01/03/91)
pizzi@esacs.UUCP (Riccardo Pizzi) writes: > >We installed recently the new SCO UNIX release, i.e. 3.2.2. > >Please, look at the output of the 'lc' command on my home directory: > >AAA house.c mbox remind22.5 sps.2 >active.uunet hv@uwasa.fi mte215.zip.1 s.c sps.3 >alt.groups hv@uwasa.fi.h mte215.zip.2 sb.1 sucker >anonftp.sites i2u.info.h nws sb.2 TTT >batchout.c i2u.info.i periodic sb.3 T1500.uunet >casa maild prog sb.5 uunet.games >ciuccia maild.c remind22.1 sb.6 uunet.unix >conq4 Makefila remind22.2 sb.7 uunet.x >ftp-server.h makefile remind22.3 sig >gifhelp Makefile remind22.4 sps.1 > >In the ASCII character set, I have always thought the capital (upper case) >letters should come *before* the lower case letters, but this seems not true >for SCO... >If we look at the following files: maild.c, Makefile, makefile e Makefila, >we would expect to see the following: > > Makefila > Makefile > maild.c > makefile > >now, take a look and see how SCO sorted the files... >The first problem that comes to my mind is that the old habit of giving >important files an uppercase name (or capitalized, as you prefer) does not >work here... what a shame! >I thought the bug could depend on the internationalization stuff, but never Bingo. >had the time to dig into it to debug the problem (I don't like SCO UNIX >at all, agreeing with most developers out there so I don't want to do it, too). > >BTW: today I found that the numbers always come *after* all other letters: This is not a bug, rather a feature :-). Under the ANSI and XPG3 internationalization (I18N for short), practically everything is variable. There are languages out there in which words are sorted by the *first vowel in a word* rather than the first letter. Some letters have to be treated as 2, some strings have to be treated as a single letter. It goes on and on. The whole thing is incredibly complicated. Anyway, what you have done is set your default environment to english_us.8859, rather than english_us.ascii. Thus you have asked for ISO 8859 sorting rules rather than ascii sorting rules, and are getting case independent sorting among other things. I was also confused when this happened the first time. You can do lots of things to solve this (as is typical in I18N) 1) Edit /etc/default/lang, and change the 8859 to ascii. This changes the default behaviour for the *entire* system. 2) Set the environment variable LANG from your shell % setenv LANG english_us.ascii to change just the behaviour you see, but leave everything else alone. 3) Set the environment variable LC_COLLATE (it controls sorting criteria) from your shell % setenv LC_COLLATE english_us.ascii Then your environment will use 8859 rules except for sorting, which will change to the ascii conventions. Have fun. --- I am not an I18N expert, but have actually written code during a project to use this stuff. I found myself confused for months about the *right* way to do things. If anyone else out there has done any I18N programming (under SCO or any other system) and has some *pearls of wisdom* (complaints?) to impart, I would be happy to listen to them. I don't promise to be able to solve, fix or change anything, but I18N is virtually certain to affect my life as a programmer more and more as time goes on, and I would not mind getting a bit of a head start. --- Larry Philps, SCO Canada, Inc (Formerly: HCR Corporation) Postman: 130 Bloor St. West, 10th floor, Toronto, Ontario. M5S 1N5 InterNet: larryp@sco.COM or larryp%scocan@uunet.uu.net UUCP: {uunet,utcsri,sco}!scocan!larryp Phone: (416) 922-1937 Fax: (416) 922-8397
walter@mecky.UUCP (Walter Mecky) (01/04/91)
In article <41@esacs.UUCP> pizzi@esacs.UUCP (Riccardo Pizzi) writes:
< We installed recently the new SCO UNIX release, i.e. 3.2.2.
< []
< However, my first login on the newly installed system showed a very nasty
< bug in one of the most used commands, 'ls'.
[ Shows that the filenames or not sorted in ASCII sequence but upper
case and lower case a sorted together. ]
<
< Anybody has a solution?
Reading the manual from the International Supplement you can read
someting about "locales". The default locale is ISO 8859. I bet,
after installing you find something with ".8859" in your
/etc/default/lang file, Riccardo, don't you?
If you look in /usr/lib/lang.src/col.8859.src, you find the sorting
sequence for this character set. Here it is defined that upper and
lower case letter sorts equal.
There are some possiblities to get the good old ASCII sorting order:
1. Replace the "8859" in your /etc/default/lang with "asci".
2. Set the LANG environment variable to something that ends with "asci".
3. Change /usr/lib/lang.src/col.8859.src to meet your style. Run
chrtbl(C) and move the output file in the correct directory under
/usr/lib/lang.
--
Walter Mecky [ walter@mecky.uucp or ...uunet!unido!mecky!walter ]pizzi@esacs.UUCP (Riccardo Pizzi) (01/07/91)
>Now, why don't you tell us what country your in, and what your LANG stuff >is set to? Internationalisation, and all that, don't you know? Not all >countries or languages sort the way English does. I am willing to bet that >that's what your "problem" is... (for example, in my /etc/default/lang, I >have: LANG=english_us.ascii) Well, I checked that file and found the following: # # @(#) lang 1.1 89/06/30 # # Copyright (C) The Santa Cruz Operation, 1987, 1988. # This Module contains Proprietary Information of # The Santa Cruz Operation, Microsoft Corporation # and AT&T, and should be treated as Confidential. # # Specification of system default locales # LANG=english_us.8859 LANG=french_france.8859 LANG=german_germany.8859 Now, why the f***ing installation script decided to set up the 8859 collating sequence? Do we expect to get a similar default behaviour? I think *no*. The system asked me *nothing* about internationalization during the installation. Anyway, commenting out the above lines and adding LANG=english_us.ascii solved the problem. Thanks for the hints (damn locale stuff!) Rick -- Riccardo Pizzi @ ESA Software, Rimini, ITALY e-mail: pizzi%esacs@relay.EU.NET -or- root@xtc.SUBLINK.ORG << Object Oriented is an Opaque Disease >>
pizzi@esacs.UUCP (Riccardo Pizzi) (01/07/91)
In article <1991Jan03.143742.23436@sco.COM> larryp@sco.COM (Larry Philps) writes: >internationalization (I18N for short), practically everything is >variable. There are languages out there in which words are sorted by the >*first vowel in a word* rather than the first letter. Some letters have >to be treated as 2, some strings have to be treated as a single letter. >It goes on and on. The whole thing is incredibly complicated. Agree. >Anyway, what you have done is set your default environment to >english_us.8859, rather than english_us.ascii. Thus you have asked for >ISO 8859 sorting rules rather than ascii sorting rules, and are getting >case independent sorting among other things. I was also confused when >this happened the first time. Wait! I have *not* chosen explicitly the 8859 collating sequence. SCO did it!! I think the correct default would better be 'ascii'. >You can do lots of things to solve this (as is typical in I18N) Well, thank you, a guy on the net already explained it to me. >If anyone else out there has done any I18N programming What does exactly I18N stand for? Ciao Rick -- Riccardo Pizzi @ ESA Software, Rimini, ITALY e-mail: pizzi%esacs@relay.EU.NET -or- root@xtc.SUBLINK.ORG << Object Oriented is an Opaque Disease >>
larryp@sco.COM (Larry Philps) (01/12/91)
In <46@esacs.UUCP> pizzi@esacs.UUCP (Riccardo Pizzi) writes: > In article <1991Jan03.143742.23436@sco.COM> larryp@sco.COM (Larry Philps) writes: > >Anyway, what you have done is set your default environment to > >english_us.8859, rather than english_us.ascii. Thus you have asked for > >ISO 8859 sorting rules rather than ascii sorting rules, and are getting > >case independent sorting among other things. I was also confused when > >this happened the first time. > > Wait! I have *not* chosen explicitly the 8859 collating sequence. > SCO did it!! I think the correct default would better be 'ascii'. In my opinion, their is *no* correct default. Everybody wants something different, and the locale stuff tries to please everyone. Actually, you do get prompted for the locales you want to use when you install the International Supplement. You can pick ascii. However, I agree that all the consequences of the various choices are not spelled out. Probably because that would require an entire book :-( > What does exactly I18N stand for? It is a short form for internationalization, an I, 18 dumb letters, and an N. :-) --- Larry Philps, SCO Canada, Inc (Formerly: HCR Corporation) Postman: 130 Bloor St. West, 10th floor, Toronto, Ontario. M5S 1N5 InterNet: larryp@sco.COM or larryp%scocan@uunet.uu.net UUCP: {uunet,utcsri,sco}!scocan!larryp Phone: (416) 922-1937 Fax: (416) 922-8397
digersj@zooid (Jeff Digers) (03/24/91)
I'm an experienced (well, pretty much) DOS user, but I am REALLY interested in SCO UNIX system V/386. Can someone tell me of its advantages over other PC-based UNIX alternatives?