[comp.unix.sysv386] BRU advertisement??

cgwst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) (03/13/91)

Howdy:
I got a letter in the mail the other day from an unknown friend Jeff.  The
note is written on a copied page of the Denver Computer Journal.  The copy
shows an advertisement for BRU in the middle of an "article" about the backup
utility.

The note reads: 'CALL THESE GUYS, THIS IS A GREAT PRODUCT -- JEFF' and at the
bottom on the page: 'P.S. HAVING A GREAT TIME IN COLORADO. SEE YOU SOON!'.

Now, I know very few Jeffs and:
a) they would never send me a letter like this,
b) I've checked with most of them and none of them have sent me this thing.
c) their handwriting is a lot worse than this,

Other interested info:
a) the Fergus Inn Suites Hotel (P.O. Box 9009, Boulder, Colorado 80301) from
   which the letter was mailed does not exist according to directory assistance
   and a guy I talked to in Boulder last night
b) The Denver Computer Journal does not exist according to directory assistance
   although I do admit that the Bolder guy thought he may have heard of it
c) the "article" surrounding the BRU add looks like it was written by a BRU
   employee (right out of a sales brochure).

Now, I could be wrong so I am not going to flame BRU til I'm sure.
Anyone in Boulder know of the Fergis Inn Suites Hotel?
Anyone in Denver heard of the Denver Computer Journal?  The add comes from Page
  19 (no date).
Anyone else get one of these things?

I have already asked for mail-fraud paperwork from my local postmaster.  We
will see what happens.

gray

p.s. If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm pissed off!!!

scum@virtech.uucp (Steven C. Monroe) (03/20/91)

cgwst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) writes:

>Howdy:
>I got a letter in the mail the other day from an unknown friend Jeff.  The
>note is written on a copied page of the Denver Computer Journal.  The copy
>shows an advertisement for BRU in the middle of an "article" about the backup
>utility.

*** goofy marketing description deleted ***

>  19 (no date).
>Anyone else get one of these things?

Not from BRU anyway....

>I have already asked for mail-fraud paperwork from my local postmaster.  We
>will see what happens.

What's the fraud?  Did they solict money?  What's your problem anyway.
Gee wiz you just gave their marketing department a good laugh.

>gray

I assume that this is not the gray between your ears.

>p.s. If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm pissed off!!!

Does all you junk mail piss you off?  Do you file a fraud complaint
quite often?

Hey, why not post you post office address.  I bet you could get some real
personalized mail if it would make you feel better!

Oh all right, I'm joking here's the smiley faces... ;-}

But, be reasonable.
-- 
Steven C. Monroe           (703)430-9247        Virtual Technologies, Inc.,
uunet!virtech!scum                              46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160
                                                Sterling, VA 22170 

karln@uunet.uu.net (03/21/91)

In article <1991Mar20.033349.9539@virtech.uucp> scum@virtech.uucp (Steven C. Monroe) writes:
>cgwst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) writes:
>
>>Howdy:
>>I got a letter in the mail the other day from an unknown friend Jeff.  The
>>note is written on a copied page of the Denver Computer Journal.  The copy
>>shows an advertisement for BRU in the middle of an "article" about the backup
>>utility.
>

	Some people have all the luck ... not me.

	I have posted a couple of times asking if anyone knows about
	backup utilities. I'll take any thing !!!! Nobody will send me
	anything. Please, PLease, PLEase, PLEAse, PLEASe, PLEASE ...

	would someone send me something ......

	karl nicholas

	karln!karln@uunet.uu.net

	P.S. I am sorry you cannot 'R'eply to this message. I am still trying
	to get C-news straightened out. I've used unix for a blazing three months
	now, and my first open/win project is due next week. After that I'll 
	get this stuff working right ....

fnf@fishpond.uucp (Fred Fish) (03/22/91)

Since EST does not get or receive netnews, I am posting the following
message at the request of Jeff Groves.  Note that as a major stock holder
in the company, and the author of the product in question, I have some
interest in this "marketing fiasco", but all questions and comments should
be directed to Jeff.  He does get email at estinc!jeff.

-Fred

--------------------------------------------------------------

Thursday, 21 March 1991

Greetings,

Please direct all flames regarding the "fake" Denver Computer
Journal article to me.  If you're curious about what caused this
brouhaha, I will send you a copy of the infamous mailing piece. 
Call 602-820-0042 or uucp me at estinc!jeff

The letter received by Gray Watson was part of a very small
direct marketing test.  Only 250 letters were mailed.  I selected
names from various Unix mailing lists.  The test was a dud -- no
good leads (or sales) were generated.

Here's what happened:

I was looking for a new way to promote our Unix Backup and
Restore Utility called BRU.  We've been selling it for over six
years (mostly through ads in Unix World and Unix Review). I
wanted to send out a copy of our review from the December 1990
issue of Unix World magazine (which was very positive).

Copyright restrictions prevented me from making copies of the
Unix World article.   They prefer to sell us reprints at 40 cents
per copy, which is too expensive for a mass mailing.

So I wrote my own "article" and created my own publication, the
"Denver Computer Journal."  Obviously, I could not use the name
of an existing publication, that would be illegal.  Everything I
wrote in my article was accurate.  Of course, I made our product
sound good.  An ad for BRU was also on the same page.

A few handwritten notes were written on the page in blue ink
(they were actually printed, but they looked handwritten).  They
said "CALL THESE GUYS, THIS IS A GREAT PRODUCT -- JEFF" and a
line pointed to the ad.  I also added the following at the bottom
of the page, "P.S. HAVING A GREAT TIME IN COLORADO, SEE YOU
SOON!"

I got this idea from several direct mail promotions that I have
received.  Usually, they consisted of a "fake" article printed on
newsprint, along with a handwritten note signed by John or Bob or
somebody.

This method has worked very successfully for other products,
notably for promoting seminars.  I think that Chase Revel (who
started Entreprenuer magazine) came up with the idea, or maybe he
stole it from someone else.

In direct marketing, you have to test to see if it works.  So my
secretary and I spent several hours hand-addressing and stamping
about 250 envelopes.  This promotional method may have worked for
others ... but it was a real dud for our product.

When sending direct mail letters, the goal is to first get the
attention of the reader, and then try to make a sale (or generate
a lead).  I seemed to accomplish the first goal, but I failed on
the second.  I got only one inquiry and two complaints -- not the
kind of results I like.

I mailed the letters from Colorado because I was planning a trip
there.  The trip was postponed, so I mailed a big envelope full
of stamped letters to the Boulder postmaster with instructions to
postmark them in Boulder.  I used a Boulder P.O. Box as the
return address in order to get any bad address returns (usually
about 5% to 10% for most mailing lists).  The box belonged to a
friend of mine name Jeff Fergus -- so the letter was actually
mailed by a guy named Jeff (which is also my name).

My "brilliant" marketing idea did not work.  Like most direct
marketing test mailings, it failed.  I think I underestimated the
intelligence of my readers and made them mad ... which is not a
good way to sell.  So now it's back to the drawing board for the
next marketing idea.

I am sorry to anyone who was offended by this mailing.  If you
have any additional questions, complaints or comments, please
direct them to me.

Sincerely,



Jeff Groves
Director of Marketing (ex-Marketing Genius?)
Enhanced Software Technologies


-- 
# Fred Fish, 1835 E. Belmont Drive, Tempe, AZ 85284,  USA
# 1-602-491-0048               asuvax!mcdphx!fishpond!fnf

timj@maynhbd.UUCP (Tim Jones) (03/24/91)

In article <10246@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, cgwst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) writes:
> Howdy:
> I got a letter in the mail the other day from an unknown friend Jeff.  The
> note is written on a copied page of the Denver Computer Journal.  The copy
>    (Stuff deleted)
> Now, I could be wrong so I am not going to flame BRU til I'm sure.

Gray, did you ever think that this was maybe just a direct mail marketing
campaign?  About a year ago, the folks that make _Smart Food Popcorn_ did
something similar with a series of postcards from a 'Ken' in Boston.  There
is nothing fraudulent about this.  Apparently your name is on some UNIX
related mailing list that EST purchased.

Do you complaign when UNIX Today sends you a bingo card for a free
subscription?  How about when Ed McMahon tells you (via unsolicited mail)
that you may have won ten gadzillion dollars?  The folks at EST are just
trying to be a little more creative in making market contacts than with 
a simple 'This is our product - It does this well - tastes great - lasts a
long time - won't kill your dog if he sniffs it!' type of ad.

Oh yes, the _Smart Food_ white cheddar popcorn is great!  Also, BRU is
one of the most complete, across platform, data retrieval and recovery
utilities that I've ever tested, so maybe this fictitious 'Jeff' has
a good idea.

Not all direct mail campaigns are as straight-forward and boring as the
last grouping I received from an self-centered 4GL manufacturer!

Tim Jones			My opinions are my own (unless my wife's
...!uunet!maynhbd!timj          around when I write them ;-). )
or   timj@maynhbd.UUCP

rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) (03/26/91)

fnf@fishpond.uucp (Fred Fish) writes about hearing of the "interesting" way
BRU was marketed...

This is material forwarded by Fred...
> The letter received by Gray Watson was part of a very small
> direct marketing test...
...
> I was looking for a new way to promote our Unix Backup and
> Restore Utility called BRU...
...
> So I wrote my own "article" and created my own publication, the
> "Denver Computer Journal."  Obviously, I could not use the name
> of an existing publication, that would be illegal.  Everything I
> wrote in my article was accurate.  Of course, I made our product
> sound good.  An ad for BRU was also on the same page.

The result of this was that some of us here in Boulder, CO (where the
"Jeff" of the ad had supposedly visited when he mailed the ads) got an
inquiry about the contents of the ad.  It made reference to a nonexistent
journal, as noted above; we verified that as best we could.

> A few handwritten notes were written on the page in blue ink
> (they were actually printed, but they looked handwritten).  They
> said "CALL THESE GUYS, THIS IS A GREAT PRODUCT -- JEFF" and a
> line pointed to the ad.  I also added the following at the bottom
> of the page, "P.S. HAVING A GREAT TIME IN COLORADO, SEE YOU
> SOON!"

And it was somehow associated with the "Fergus Arms" (I think that was the
name they chose) hotel.  On request, we checked for that in the Boulder
phone book.  No such animal, but we *did* happen on a "Jeff Fergus" listed
in the business section!...

> I mailed the letters from Colorado because I was planning a trip
> there.  The trip was postponed, so I mailed a big envelope full
> of stamped letters to the Boulder postmaster with instructions to
> postmark them in Boulder.  I used a Boulder P.O. Box as the
> return address in order to get any bad address returns (usually
> about 5% to 10% for most mailing lists).  The box belonged to a
> friend of mine name Jeff Fergus -- so the letter was actually
> mailed by a guy named Jeff (which is also my name).

Now, there aren't many hotels/motels in Boulder; most of us know which ones
exist and even which ones have been proposed or granted permits.  But at
this point we had a pair of names (Jeff and Fergus) which matched the
hand-written part of the note and the supposed hotel name.  The ZIP on the
mail covered the area in which Jeff Fergus' business address is listed
(80301), so at this point we figured it was pretty likely that this Jeff
Fergus was somehow involved in the dummied-up ad.

At this point I think it's more funny than anything...I didn't see any
fraud in it (from where I sit, not having received the ad but having
answered some questions about whether the places were real).  But it seemed
like a dumb idea to invent a journal and a hotel, in a place where it would
be easy for the marketing targets to check them or ask someone to check.
(Boulder is small, but it gets a lot of tourists, and it's got a large
university with significant EE and CS departments.)  The most fun comes out
of how little time it took for someone on USENET to cross-check it with us
here.
-- 
Dick Dunn     rcd@ico.isc.com -or- ico!rcd       Boulder, CO   (303)449-2870
   The Official Colorado State Vegetable is now the "state legislator".

wolf@equinox.UUCP (Wolf Kozel) (03/29/91)

In article <1991Mar20.180343.1032@uunet.uu.net> karln@karln.UUCP () writes:
>In article <1991Mar20.033349.9539@virtech.uucp> scum@virtech.uucp (Steven C. Monroe) writes:
>>cgwst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) writes:
>>
>>>Howdy:
>>>I got a letter in the mail the other day from an unknown friend Jeff.  The
>>>note is written on a copied page of the Denver Computer Journal.  The copy
>>>shows an advertisement for BRU in the middle of an "article" about the backup
>>>utility.
>>
>
>	Some people have all the luck ... not me.
>
>	I have posted a couple of times asking if anyone knows about
>	backup utilities. I'll take any thing !!!! Nobody will send me
>	anything. Please, PLease, PLEase, PLEAse, PLEASe, PLEASE ...
>
I like CTAR. I'd tried others (including BRU and a company-developed
backup utility), but CTAR was by far the best. CTAR is easy to use and
can do a lot, like verify and compress that tar, cpio won't do. You
can specify what files/directories to be backed up or you can just
list was files/directories you want excluded.

 CTAR is sold by Micro-lite (412) 771-4901. Call 'em and I'm sure they'll
send you some more information...


_________________________________________________________________
Arf, Yipe, Grrrrrrrr          Equinox Systems (305) 255-3500 x289
Death to the Shah!            14260 SW 119th Ave, Miami FL 33186
                  WolF Kozel : Computers,kali,chess & beer