cgwst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) (03/13/91)
Howdy: I got a letter in the mail the other day from an unknown friend Jeff. The note is written on a copied page of the Denver Computer Journal. The copy shows an advertisement for BRU in the middle of an "article" about the backup utility. The note reads: 'CALL THESE GUYS, THIS IS A GREAT PRODUCT -- JEFF' and at the bottom on the page: 'P.S. HAVING A GREAT TIME IN COLORADO. SEE YOU SOON!'. Now, I know very few Jeffs and: a) they would never send me a letter like this, b) I've checked with most of them and none of them have sent me this thing. c) their handwriting is a lot worse than this, Other interested info: a) the Fergus Inn Suites Hotel (P.O. Box 9009, Boulder, Colorado 80301) from which the letter was mailed does not exist according to directory assistance and a guy I talked to in Boulder last night b) The Denver Computer Journal does not exist according to directory assistance although I do admit that the Bolder guy thought he may have heard of it c) the "article" surrounding the BRU add looks like it was written by a BRU employee (right out of a sales brochure). Now, I could be wrong so I am not going to flame BRU til I'm sure. Anyone in Boulder know of the Fergis Inn Suites Hotel? Anyone in Denver heard of the Denver Computer Journal? The add comes from Page 19 (no date). Anyone else get one of these things? I have already asked for mail-fraud paperwork from my local postmaster. We will see what happens. gray p.s. If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm pissed off!!!
scum@virtech.uucp (Steven C. Monroe) (03/20/91)
cgwst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) writes: >Howdy: >I got a letter in the mail the other day from an unknown friend Jeff. The >note is written on a copied page of the Denver Computer Journal. The copy >shows an advertisement for BRU in the middle of an "article" about the backup >utility. *** goofy marketing description deleted *** > 19 (no date). >Anyone else get one of these things? Not from BRU anyway.... >I have already asked for mail-fraud paperwork from my local postmaster. We >will see what happens. What's the fraud? Did they solict money? What's your problem anyway. Gee wiz you just gave their marketing department a good laugh. >gray I assume that this is not the gray between your ears. >p.s. If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm pissed off!!! Does all you junk mail piss you off? Do you file a fraud complaint quite often? Hey, why not post you post office address. I bet you could get some real personalized mail if it would make you feel better! Oh all right, I'm joking here's the smiley faces... ;-} But, be reasonable. -- Steven C. Monroe (703)430-9247 Virtual Technologies, Inc., uunet!virtech!scum 46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160 Sterling, VA 22170
karln@uunet.uu.net (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar20.033349.9539@virtech.uucp> scum@virtech.uucp (Steven C. Monroe) writes: >cgwst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) writes: > >>Howdy: >>I got a letter in the mail the other day from an unknown friend Jeff. The >>note is written on a copied page of the Denver Computer Journal. The copy >>shows an advertisement for BRU in the middle of an "article" about the backup >>utility. > Some people have all the luck ... not me. I have posted a couple of times asking if anyone knows about backup utilities. I'll take any thing !!!! Nobody will send me anything. Please, PLease, PLEase, PLEAse, PLEASe, PLEASE ... would someone send me something ...... karl nicholas karln!karln@uunet.uu.net P.S. I am sorry you cannot 'R'eply to this message. I am still trying to get C-news straightened out. I've used unix for a blazing three months now, and my first open/win project is due next week. After that I'll get this stuff working right ....
fnf@fishpond.uucp (Fred Fish) (03/22/91)
Since EST does not get or receive netnews, I am posting the following message at the request of Jeff Groves. Note that as a major stock holder in the company, and the author of the product in question, I have some interest in this "marketing fiasco", but all questions and comments should be directed to Jeff. He does get email at estinc!jeff. -Fred -------------------------------------------------------------- Thursday, 21 March 1991 Greetings, Please direct all flames regarding the "fake" Denver Computer Journal article to me. If you're curious about what caused this brouhaha, I will send you a copy of the infamous mailing piece. Call 602-820-0042 or uucp me at estinc!jeff The letter received by Gray Watson was part of a very small direct marketing test. Only 250 letters were mailed. I selected names from various Unix mailing lists. The test was a dud -- no good leads (or sales) were generated. Here's what happened: I was looking for a new way to promote our Unix Backup and Restore Utility called BRU. We've been selling it for over six years (mostly through ads in Unix World and Unix Review). I wanted to send out a copy of our review from the December 1990 issue of Unix World magazine (which was very positive). Copyright restrictions prevented me from making copies of the Unix World article. They prefer to sell us reprints at 40 cents per copy, which is too expensive for a mass mailing. So I wrote my own "article" and created my own publication, the "Denver Computer Journal." Obviously, I could not use the name of an existing publication, that would be illegal. Everything I wrote in my article was accurate. Of course, I made our product sound good. An ad for BRU was also on the same page. A few handwritten notes were written on the page in blue ink (they were actually printed, but they looked handwritten). They said "CALL THESE GUYS, THIS IS A GREAT PRODUCT -- JEFF" and a line pointed to the ad. I also added the following at the bottom of the page, "P.S. HAVING A GREAT TIME IN COLORADO, SEE YOU SOON!" I got this idea from several direct mail promotions that I have received. Usually, they consisted of a "fake" article printed on newsprint, along with a handwritten note signed by John or Bob or somebody. This method has worked very successfully for other products, notably for promoting seminars. I think that Chase Revel (who started Entreprenuer magazine) came up with the idea, or maybe he stole it from someone else. In direct marketing, you have to test to see if it works. So my secretary and I spent several hours hand-addressing and stamping about 250 envelopes. This promotional method may have worked for others ... but it was a real dud for our product. When sending direct mail letters, the goal is to first get the attention of the reader, and then try to make a sale (or generate a lead). I seemed to accomplish the first goal, but I failed on the second. I got only one inquiry and two complaints -- not the kind of results I like. I mailed the letters from Colorado because I was planning a trip there. The trip was postponed, so I mailed a big envelope full of stamped letters to the Boulder postmaster with instructions to postmark them in Boulder. I used a Boulder P.O. Box as the return address in order to get any bad address returns (usually about 5% to 10% for most mailing lists). The box belonged to a friend of mine name Jeff Fergus -- so the letter was actually mailed by a guy named Jeff (which is also my name). My "brilliant" marketing idea did not work. Like most direct marketing test mailings, it failed. I think I underestimated the intelligence of my readers and made them mad ... which is not a good way to sell. So now it's back to the drawing board for the next marketing idea. I am sorry to anyone who was offended by this mailing. If you have any additional questions, complaints or comments, please direct them to me. Sincerely, Jeff Groves Director of Marketing (ex-Marketing Genius?) Enhanced Software Technologies -- # Fred Fish, 1835 E. Belmont Drive, Tempe, AZ 85284, USA # 1-602-491-0048 asuvax!mcdphx!fishpond!fnf
timj@maynhbd.UUCP (Tim Jones) (03/24/91)
In article <10246@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, cgwst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) writes: > Howdy: > I got a letter in the mail the other day from an unknown friend Jeff. The > note is written on a copied page of the Denver Computer Journal. The copy > (Stuff deleted) > Now, I could be wrong so I am not going to flame BRU til I'm sure. Gray, did you ever think that this was maybe just a direct mail marketing campaign? About a year ago, the folks that make _Smart Food Popcorn_ did something similar with a series of postcards from a 'Ken' in Boston. There is nothing fraudulent about this. Apparently your name is on some UNIX related mailing list that EST purchased. Do you complaign when UNIX Today sends you a bingo card for a free subscription? How about when Ed McMahon tells you (via unsolicited mail) that you may have won ten gadzillion dollars? The folks at EST are just trying to be a little more creative in making market contacts than with a simple 'This is our product - It does this well - tastes great - lasts a long time - won't kill your dog if he sniffs it!' type of ad. Oh yes, the _Smart Food_ white cheddar popcorn is great! Also, BRU is one of the most complete, across platform, data retrieval and recovery utilities that I've ever tested, so maybe this fictitious 'Jeff' has a good idea. Not all direct mail campaigns are as straight-forward and boring as the last grouping I received from an self-centered 4GL manufacturer! Tim Jones My opinions are my own (unless my wife's ...!uunet!maynhbd!timj around when I write them ;-). ) or timj@maynhbd.UUCP
rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) (03/26/91)
fnf@fishpond.uucp (Fred Fish) writes about hearing of the "interesting" way BRU was marketed... This is material forwarded by Fred... > The letter received by Gray Watson was part of a very small > direct marketing test... ... > I was looking for a new way to promote our Unix Backup and > Restore Utility called BRU... ... > So I wrote my own "article" and created my own publication, the > "Denver Computer Journal." Obviously, I could not use the name > of an existing publication, that would be illegal. Everything I > wrote in my article was accurate. Of course, I made our product > sound good. An ad for BRU was also on the same page. The result of this was that some of us here in Boulder, CO (where the "Jeff" of the ad had supposedly visited when he mailed the ads) got an inquiry about the contents of the ad. It made reference to a nonexistent journal, as noted above; we verified that as best we could. > A few handwritten notes were written on the page in blue ink > (they were actually printed, but they looked handwritten). They > said "CALL THESE GUYS, THIS IS A GREAT PRODUCT -- JEFF" and a > line pointed to the ad. I also added the following at the bottom > of the page, "P.S. HAVING A GREAT TIME IN COLORADO, SEE YOU > SOON!" And it was somehow associated with the "Fergus Arms" (I think that was the name they chose) hotel. On request, we checked for that in the Boulder phone book. No such animal, but we *did* happen on a "Jeff Fergus" listed in the business section!... > I mailed the letters from Colorado because I was planning a trip > there. The trip was postponed, so I mailed a big envelope full > of stamped letters to the Boulder postmaster with instructions to > postmark them in Boulder. I used a Boulder P.O. Box as the > return address in order to get any bad address returns (usually > about 5% to 10% for most mailing lists). The box belonged to a > friend of mine name Jeff Fergus -- so the letter was actually > mailed by a guy named Jeff (which is also my name). Now, there aren't many hotels/motels in Boulder; most of us know which ones exist and even which ones have been proposed or granted permits. But at this point we had a pair of names (Jeff and Fergus) which matched the hand-written part of the note and the supposed hotel name. The ZIP on the mail covered the area in which Jeff Fergus' business address is listed (80301), so at this point we figured it was pretty likely that this Jeff Fergus was somehow involved in the dummied-up ad. At this point I think it's more funny than anything...I didn't see any fraud in it (from where I sit, not having received the ad but having answered some questions about whether the places were real). But it seemed like a dumb idea to invent a journal and a hotel, in a place where it would be easy for the marketing targets to check them or ask someone to check. (Boulder is small, but it gets a lot of tourists, and it's got a large university with significant EE and CS departments.) The most fun comes out of how little time it took for someone on USENET to cross-check it with us here. -- Dick Dunn rcd@ico.isc.com -or- ico!rcd Boulder, CO (303)449-2870 The Official Colorado State Vegetable is now the "state legislator".
wolf@equinox.UUCP (Wolf Kozel) (03/29/91)
In article <1991Mar20.180343.1032@uunet.uu.net> karln@karln.UUCP () writes: >In article <1991Mar20.033349.9539@virtech.uucp> scum@virtech.uucp (Steven C. Monroe) writes: >>cgwst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) writes: >> >>>Howdy: >>>I got a letter in the mail the other day from an unknown friend Jeff. The >>>note is written on a copied page of the Denver Computer Journal. The copy >>>shows an advertisement for BRU in the middle of an "article" about the backup >>>utility. >> > > Some people have all the luck ... not me. > > I have posted a couple of times asking if anyone knows about > backup utilities. I'll take any thing !!!! Nobody will send me > anything. Please, PLease, PLEase, PLEAse, PLEASe, PLEASE ... > I like CTAR. I'd tried others (including BRU and a company-developed backup utility), but CTAR was by far the best. CTAR is easy to use and can do a lot, like verify and compress that tar, cpio won't do. You can specify what files/directories to be backed up or you can just list was files/directories you want excluded. CTAR is sold by Micro-lite (412) 771-4901. Call 'em and I'm sure they'll send you some more information... _________________________________________________________________ Arf, Yipe, Grrrrrrrr Equinox Systems (305) 255-3500 x289 Death to the Shah! 14260 SW 119th Ave, Miami FL 33186 WolF Kozel : Computers,kali,chess & beer