lethin@ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin) (04/26/91)
We built a custom board for the ISA bus to interface to some research equipment, and have been debugging it using MSDOS. Soon, we would like drop this board into a UNIX-based 386 system that we can access via the ethernet from our SPARCstations. I've considering a few options: The MARS Mariner. These people are hot to sell, and the system received a glowing review in the recent issue of SUNExpert magazine (April'91). It's a SPARCstation with a 386-board included. A reasonably configured system was proced at $11,995. That price was for a color monitor, 207 Mb hard disk, 12 Mb of RAM, etc. This has the advantage that since our lab is has lots of Suns, it should fit right in. We would need to write a device driver to access the ISA bus, and the MARS people seemed really technically adept and they say they have decent documentation. The major disadvantage is price, but we might be able to get an educational discount. Buying a cheap clone and installing UNIX. The important question: who's version of UNIX? It seems that everyone is offering System-V. This is unfortunate, since I am familiar with Berkeley-style UNIX, but I'm told that System V version 4 incorporates lots of Berkeley stuff. Great! But I'm told that the versions I'm seeing "out and about" are Beta releases from AT&T. We still need to write our own device driver. ESIX says that they don't have much documentation, but that someone could "easily buy the book on system V and write their own". But we need a Release 4 book. All we need is a vanilla device driver that would let me "peek" and "poke" into our board's address space. SCO hasn't scheduled a compatible product for release 4; they're "monitoring the situation closely and waiting for a stable release, perhaps 4.1 before they start selling a product". ESIX says their version 4 will be available on May 1. The person I spoke to on the phone seemed reasonably adept regarding UNIX and I was impressed. Dell will sell me a factory-installed version of System-V, release 4. I can also purchase a 3.2 UNIX. Interactive Systems Corp. Version 4 not available until Q1'92. So, some questions: 1. Any opinions on the Mariner? 2. What do people think about going with Release 4? 3. How hard would writing a vanilla device driver be? Has anyone written such a driver that they would be willing to share? 4. Is Dell UNIX a reasonable product? 5. What are the relative sales of SCO, ESIX, and ISC UNIX? 6. Does anyone have any references to review articles for these UNIXes? 7. How horribly un-berkeley is System V, Release 3.2? 8. How much more Berkeley is Release 4? 9. Which UNIX should we buy? Thanks for your opinions! -- Rich
jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) (04/28/91)
In article <15283@life.ai.mit.edu> lethin@ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin) writes: >It seems that everyone is offering System-V. This is unfortunate, >since I am familiar with Berkeley-style UNIX, but I'm told that System >V version 4 incorporates lots of Berkeley stuff. Great! But I'm told "System V Release 4.0 also provides a full BSD environment and source-level compatibility for 4.2 and 4.3 BSD". So they claim ... and it's a little early to tell for sure. But reported results so far seem to be encouraging. >We still need to write our own device driver. ESIX says that they >don't have much documentation, but that someone could "easily buy the >book on system V and write their own". But we need a Release 4 book. >All we need is a vanilla device driver that would let me "peek" and >"poke" into our board's address space. What would you like? Prentice-Hall publishes the official AT&T documentation, which includes "UNIX System V/386 Release 4 Device Driver Interface/Driver- Kernel Interface Reference Manual" (With this manual, experienced C programmers have the reference information needed to create, modify, and maintain device drivers in the UNIX System V Release 4 environment. It describes both the DDI and DKI interfaces in four sections: introduction, driver entry points, kernel functions, and data structures. Portability and scope are addressed and two appendices cover error codes and migration from Release 3.2 to 4. List price is $28). There's also the UNIX System V/386 Release 4 Programmer's Guide: SCSI Interface which lists for $15. >Interactive Systems Corp. Version 4 not available until Q1'92. Is that '92 or '91? I thought that Interactive basically was going to re-label Intel's 4.0. I've seen basically good things about Dell 4.0, and I wouldn't trust Microport or UHC. I just don't think they'll be around in a couple of years, and that's especially true given some of the horror stories about customer support. I like the attitude of ESIX towards customer support: call them, tell them your problem, and they help you fix it. No $500 or $600 support contracts, no reciting of mother's maiden name, or the 25-digit number on the 15th disk that you have locked in the closet. -- Voice: +1 503 646-8257 FAX: +1 503 248-6320 jamesd@techbook.com - or - Public Access UNIX site: +1 503 644-8135 ...!uunet!techbook!jamesd TECHbooks sells technical (and other) books at discounted prices. Authorized SCO and ESIX resellers.
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (04/28/91)
lethin@ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin) writes: >SCO hasn't scheduled a compatible product for release 4; they're >"monitoring the situation closely and waiting for a stable release, >perhaps 4.1 before they start selling a product". yep - I was told by their rep that R4 is too buggy and they have no plans to issue a R4 product for at least the next 2 years Heck, if it is so buggy - why don't they fix the bugs? They didn't have any hesitations releasing buggy code in ODT and Xenix in their original releases. If they want R4, they could turn their programming efforts (again) in that direction. >Dell will sell me a factory-installed version of System-V, release 4. >I can also purchase a 3.2 UNIX. yes - with a 30 day no questions asked return policy (which by the way is unheard of in the industry) >Interactive Systems Corp. Version 4 not available until Q1'92. ISC will have R4 this summer (beta) >2. What do people think about going with Release 4? currently, the way to go if you care about the future -- have you checked into support? ISC and SCO are in excess of $1200/year (for package support) - Dell is $500. ESIX is free. -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (04/28/91)
jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes: >>Interactive Systems Corp. Version 4 not available until Q1'92. >Is that '92 or '91? I thought that Interactive basically was going to re-label >Intel's 4.0. I thought the same thing. ISC actually obtained complete source code from AT&T (SVR4 3.0) and is doing a complete port (without using the Intel code). Their first release is due out this summer, with production release due out 1Q 92 >I've seen basically good things about Dell 4.0, and I wouldn't trust Microport >especially true given some of the horror stories about customer support. I Ditto. >like the attitude of ESIX towards customer support: call them, tell them your >problem, and they help you fix it. No $500 or $600 support contracts, no >reciting of mother's maiden name, or the 25-digit number on the 15th disk >that you have locked in the closet. In regards to ESIX, I have heard stories of long waits getting to tech support, and getting support folks who don't know the answers and don't return phone calls. -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) (04/28/91)
In article <1991Apr27.180658.18160@techbook.com> jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes: >I like the attitude of ESIX towards customer support: call them, tell them >your problem, and they help you fix it. There's one thing I find very disconcerting about ESIX tech support. When you call the tech support number, a tech support person answers the phone. I'm just so programmed into expecting to go through seven levels of synthesized female voice menus, followed by "please wait while your call is transferred" followed by "all of our representatives are busy now, please hold," I just seem to freeze up when a real person answers the phone. :) -- John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)
cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) (04/28/91)
jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes: >I've seen basically good things about Dell 4.0, and I wouldn't trust Microport >or UHC. I just don't think they'll be around in a couple of years, and that's coming from someone who is an >Authorized SCO and ESIX resellers. Sounds like marketing BS to me. Statements like this, without a basis in facts are likely to result in lawsuits from the companies whose products you are not selling and chose to bash. Yes, I know you made a postive comment about Dell, but they are not really competing in the general (i.e. non-dell hardware) unix reselling market. -- Conor P. Cahill (703)430-9247 Virtual Technologies, Inc. uunet!virtech!cpcahil 46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160 Sterling, VA 22170
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) (04/28/91)
In article <1991Apr28.022947.24970@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: >In regards to ESIX, >I have heard stories of long waits getting to tech support, and getting >support folks who don't know the answers and don't return phone calls. Funny, I've heard the SAME thing regarding ISC :-) I've never had a problem getting thru to Esix. The folks there seem interested and willing to help. My gripe is that they don't offer to go off and research the problem. The resolution ends when you hang up the phone. The one time I called ISC, they were unable to solve my problem. The person did call me back the next day, though, even though it was with 'we don't know what the problem is' ... It is pretty tough to get "really good" tech support from any vendor. -- bill@unixland.uucp The Think_Tank BBS & Public Access Unix ...!uunet!think!unixland!bill ...!{uunet,bloom-beacon,esegue}!world!unixland!bill 508-655-3848 (2400) 508-651-8723 (9600-HST) 508-651-8733 (9600-PEP-V32)
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (04/28/91)
john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes: >There's one thing I find very disconcerting about ESIX tech support. It their tech support available using an 800 number? -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (04/28/91)
cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes: >Yes, I know you made a postive comment about Dell, but they are not really >competing in the general (i.e. non-dell hardware) unix reselling market. Yes they are - and their UNIX runs in many installations with non-dell hardware. Heck, with Dell's SVR4 (for $1295 list) you get Dos Merge - how many other SVR4 packages for $1295 give you the works - including Dos Merge? Not only that - the 30 day no questions asked refund policy (if you aren't happy for any reason with any Dell product, you are entitled for a complete refund).. Watch out for some exciting things from Dell SVR4! -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (04/28/91)
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) writes: >In article <1991Apr28.022947.24970@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: >>In regards to ESIX, >>I have heard stories of long waits getting to tech support, and getting >>support folks who don't know the answers and don't return phone calls. >Funny, I've heard the SAME thing regarding ISC :-) Oh, I'm not saying the "grass is greener" with ISC. I tried calling Multiuser Systems (or whatever they call themselves these days - the ISC distributor in Hollis, NH) and their support was the pits. If I wanted support for ISC - I would sign up with ISC directly (I'm not saying they are any better than the outfit in Hollis - since I haven't delt with them.) On the other hand, I have called Dell and talked to the engineers doing the work. There support is quite good, and my call's aren't filtered through others. Also, the net here is an excellent way for technical support since many of us have been through situations and installation problems that are of use to others. -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) (04/28/91)
In article <1991Apr28.022947.24970@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: >In regards to ESIX, I have heard stories of long waits getting to tech support A tech support person has always answered my calls on the second ring. I've probably called them four or five times in the last four months. >and getting >support folks who don't know the answers and don't return phone calls. The one time someone wasn't able to resolve my problem on the spot, I got a fax back with the answer a few hours later. Unfortunately, the answer was, "that's a known bug with no scheduled fix..." -- John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)
john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) (04/28/91)
In article <1991Apr28.125403.1787@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: >It their tech support available using an 800 number? Not that I'm aware of. -- John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) (04/28/91)
In article <1991Apr28.130239.2062@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: > >Oh, I'm not saying the "grass is greener" with ISC. I tried calling >Multiuser Systems (or whatever they call themselves these days - the >ISC distributor in Hollis, NH) and their support was the pits. I ran into the same problem with a company in Marlboro Mass. I was getting ready to buy Esix, and the salesman there was among the most obnoxious people I've ever met. He actually came out and said something like "well, you're lucky I spent the time to show you this product." If they treat me that way before I've even bought the product, imagine how they'd be for support later on!! For either ISC or ESIX products and support, I recommend you call: Burt Janz Complete Computing Solutions of New England, Inc. Nashua, NH (603) 880-0842 voice, (603) 889-6154 FAX Burt is very knowledgable about both products and provides good support. I hope this doesn't sound too commercial; I'm not affiliated with this co. >On the other hand, I have called Dell and talked to the engineers >doing the work. There support is quite good, and my call's aren't >filtered through others. What is the cost of Dell support? Do they support their OS if it is running on non-Dell hardware? >Also, the net here is an excellent way for technical support since >many of us have been through situations and installation problems >that are of use to others. Yup, I sure agree on that one. I've gotten lots of help from lots of knowledgable and helpful people on the net. -- bill@unixland.uucp The Think_Tank BBS & Public Access Unix ...!uunet!think!unixland!bill ...!{uunet,bloom-beacon,esegue}!world!unixland!bill 508-655-3848 (2400) 508-651-8723 (9600-HST) 508-651-8733 (9600-PEP-V32)
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) (04/28/91)
In article <1991Apr28.125712.1870@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: > >Yes they are - and their UNIX runs in many installations with non-dell >hardware. Heck, with Dell's SVR4 (for $1295 list) you get Dos Merge - >how many other SVR4 packages for $1295 give you the works - including >Dos Merge? Here you're getting into one of those gray areas that you described when talking about ESIX vs ISC. The Dell OS may well install and appear to work on some no-name non-Dell clone ... but a year from now when you want to install East-Osh-Kosh Super-Duper-Spreadsheet&Combination Sink Cleaner, and it doesn't run properly, or if you want to install something common like WP, and some obscure function doesn't work right, you'll be up the famous creek. >Not only that - the 30 day no questions asked refund policy (if you aren't >happy for any reason with any Dell product, you are entitled for a complete >refund).. I do like that idea! What comes with the Dell SYSVR4 for $1295? NFS? Motif? X11R4? Do they have an "upgrade from ANY sysvr3" like Esix does? How much is the upgrade? -- bill@unixland.uucp The Think_Tank BBS & Public Access Unix ...!uunet!think!unixland!bill ...!{uunet,bloom-beacon,esegue}!world!unixland!bill 508-655-3848 (2400) 508-651-8723 (9600-HST) 508-651-8733 (9600-PEP-V32)
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (04/29/91)
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) writes: >What is the cost of Dell support? Do they support their OS if it is >running on non-Dell hardware? $500 per year for support -- officially, they only support it on Dell hardware (I think) - but many of the problems I've encountered with ISC are not hardware specific and have more to do with the operating system utilities and such.. -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (04/29/91)
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) writes: >What comes with the Dell SYSVR4 for $1295? NFS? Motif? X11R4? all of the above plus much more -- for information send a request to info@dell.com and you'll get complete details >Do they have an "upgrade from ANY sysvr3" like Esix does? How much is the >upgrade? I don't believe so - the upgrade is from Dell 3.2 to 4.0 only -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) (04/29/91)
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: >cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes: >>Yes, I know you made a postive comment about Dell, but they are not really >>competing in the general (i.e. non-dell hardware) unix reselling market. >Yes they are - and their UNIX runs in many installations with non-dell >hardware. Heck, with Dell's SVR4 (for $1295 list) you get Dos Merge - >how many other SVR4 packages for $1295 give you the works - including >Dos Merge? Try calling them with a problem, even within the first 30 days. Like AT&T, the first question will be "what is the serial number of the Dell computer that is having the problem?" I'm not bashing Dell. It sounds like a good product and the decision to only support thier own hardware is a basic business decision. If I was in their shoes I would probably have made the same decision. -- Conor P. Cahill (703)430-9247 Virtual Technologies, Inc. uunet!virtech!cpcahil 46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160 Sterling, VA 22170
huver@amgraf.UUCP (Huver) (04/29/91)
On the subject of AT&T SVR4 docs on kernel and drivers... In article <1991Apr27.180658.18160@techbook.com>, jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes: > ... Prentice-Hall publishes the official AT&T documentation, ^ missing "some of" > which includes "UNIX System V/386 Release 4 Device Driver Interface/Driver- > Kernel Interface Reference Manual" (With this manual, experienced C > programmers have the reference information needed to create, modify, and > maintain device drivers in the UNIX System V Release 4 environment. It > describes both the DDI and DKI interfaces in four sections: introduction, > driver entry points, kernel functions, and data structures. Portability > and scope are addressed and two appendices cover error codes and migration > from Release 3.2 to 4. List price is $28). Sounds like a quote from P-H sales brochure. To be clear, DDI/DKI is the equivalent of old (V3) BCI (Block and Character Interface) Driver Ref. Manual, just the dry manual pages stuff. To someone new to System V, the companion volume BCI Driver Development Guide tells a lot more. Other than the V3 character device clists are now trashed (V4 uses streams instead), lots of V3 info still applies (actually the V4 DDI/DKI book "suggests" you read the V3 BCI Driver Development Guide). It was ~$100 as I remember. > ... There's also the UNIX System V/386 Release 4 Programmer's > Guide: SCSI Interface which lists for $15. This thing, again, is just the manual pages. Without what AT&T calls the AT&T SCSI Definition, one cannot even write applications to use the SCSI driver, let alone roll your own driver. In fact, the $15 SDI book says "You must obtain the AT&T SCSI Definition, Select Code 305-013". The catch, though, is that AT&T wants ~$200 for it (this quote came from their 800- number ordering center, twice; and no, I did not buy it because I think it is an outrage). -huver
witr@rwwa.COM (Robert Withrow) (04/29/91)
In article <418@amgraf.UUCP> huver@amgraf.UUCP (Huver) writes: |To be clear, DDI/DKI is the equivalent of old (V3) BCI (Block and |Character Interface) Driver Ref. As one who has both, I'd call it an aspiring equivalent. |Other than the V3 character device clists are now trashed (V4 uses |streams instead). The old CLISTS are still ``in there''. And as best as I can tell, there is no internals documentation of the new streams based line disciplines. |It was ~$100 as I remember. The BCI set can be had for about $225/US. There are those who would say it is the buyer being had. If you write drivers for a living, however, you just pay it and smile. The bottom line is that the SVR4 documentation is spotty. It goes on at great length about things (IMHO) no one gives a damn about (like FMLI) and is annoyingly silent about things that matter (like streams-based terminal drivers). -- --- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA 01907 USA Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430, Net: witr@rwwa.COM
dave@pmafire.inel.gov (Dave Remien) (04/30/91)
In article <1991Apr28.235013.8239@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes: >Try calling them with a problem, even within the first 30 days. Like >AT&T, the first question will be "what is the serial number of the Dell >computer that is having the problem?" I've simply told them that I'm running on hardware other than their own, and Dell has responded quite well to most of the problems I've encountered. if the issue finally comes down to a particular piece of hardware (that they don't support), then they waffle, but that's understandable. I'm running a '486-25 OPTI chipset MB, 16MB RAM, Adaptec 1540 + Maxtor 8760S + Seagate 41200N + Archive SCSI, Dell GPX + VGA daughterboard, and WD8013. My biggest headaches to date have been the power supply (the motherboard I've got is pretty sensitive), the fact that Dell V.4 showed up on 3.5" disks, and brain fade from too many versions of UNIX 8-). I did talk to Dell before going with this configuration; they told me pretty much what was and was not supported; that's why I'm running with what I have. > >I'm not bashing Dell. It sounds like a good product and the decision >to only support thier own hardware is a basic business decision. If I >was in their shoes I would probably have made the same decision. Wwweeellll, if you talk to them, they do support more than just their stuff; you just have to find out what they do support. It's certainly a smaller collection of hardware than say Interactive, but some of the hardware aftermarket folks (Equinox for one) support Dell V.4 anyway. The product itself is good to very good; much more complete and better (more robust) than the early versions of other V386 UNIXen I've used (Microport, Bell Tech, ESIX, Interactive, SCO....). I expect it to improve with age. -- Dave Remien +*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+ WINCO Computer Engineering Group dave@pmafire.inel.gov or rzd@inel.gov "Dave Barry for President"
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) (04/30/91)
In article <1991Apr28.225907.10568@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: >bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) writes: > >>What is the cost of Dell support? Do they support their OS if it is >>running on non-Dell hardware? > >$500 per year for support -- officially, they only support it >on Dell hardware (I think) - but many of the problems I've encountered WoW!!!! I seriously doubt many people with HOME systems are going to jump for that one! That doesn't sound too bad, though, for companies. Does the $500 per year include free patches (as required to fix problems) and unlimited telephone support? -- bill@unixland.uucp The Think_Tank BBS & Public Access Unix ...!uunet!think!unixland!bill ..!{uunet,bloom-beacon,esegue}!world!unixland!bill 508-655-3848 (2400) 508-651-8723 (9600-HST) 508-651-8733 (9600-PEP-V32)
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) (04/30/91)
In article <1991Apr28.235013.8239@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes: > >Try calling them with a problem, even within the first 30 days. Like >AT&T, the first question will be "what is the serial number of the Dell >computer that is having the problem?" > >I'm not bashing Dell. It sounds like a good product and the decision >to only support thier own hardware is a basic business decision. If I >was in their shoes I would probably have made the same decision. > Sterling, VA 22170 I agree that their philosophy makes sense. By supporting only their own hardware, they have a better sense of what works and what doesn't work. This being the case, though, it pretty much makes Dell Unix's existence irrelevent to a large percentage of comp.unix.sysv386 readers. I'd be willing to bet that a pretty small percentage of us has Dell hardware. Bringing up DELL unix as a comparison to Esix, ISC or SCO doesn't amount to much I guess. -- bill@unixland.uucp The Think_Tank BBS & Public Access Unix ...!uunet!think!unixland!bill ..!{uunet,bloom-beacon,esegue}!world!unixland!bill 508-655-3848 (2400) 508-651-8723 (9600-HST) 508-651-8733 (9600-PEP-V32)
jde@everex.uucp (-Jeff Ellis()) (04/30/91)
In article <1991Apr28.043309.4137@unixland.uucp> bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) writes: >In article <1991Apr28.022947.24970@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: > >>In regards to ESIX, >>I have heard stories of long waits getting to tech support, and getting >>support folks who don't know the answers and don't return phone calls. I have never heard of long waits to get to talk to Esix support. (BTW I am biasd ...... I am Esix Tech support :-) This is the standard MO for Esix support for the people who have not called... Support for Esix customers and dealers is Free but you have to pay for the call. We can not afford to pay for return calls right now. When you call in we try to handle you problem in the FIRST call. If it is a complex problem we will research the problem and try to find a answer. If we can get a answer in a few minutes we put you on hold it, if we have to set up hardware to recreate it we ask you to call back later that day or the next day for a answer. Some problems become offical bugs and get put in a data base to be assigned a priority and assigned a engineer. If you find a "offical" bug it can take anywhere from a few days on up to fix. >I've never had a problem getting thru to Esix. The folks there seem >interested and willing to help. My gripe is that they don't offer to >go off and research the problem. The resolution ends when you hang up >the phone. >It is pretty tough to get "really good" tech support from any vendor. Bill is right.... it is very tough to get "really good" tech support from any vender, but here at Esix we try very hard to give you the best support possible. As we start with 4.0 much of the support knowledge must be re-learned. I ask Esix customers to please be patient with support. I have being doing 90% of all support in the last two years. We are hiring new people to help with the work load. My main priority at Esix support is to give you personal support. You are a customer not a number. BTW You can use our fax number or email for support to cut you phone bill. If you use these options Please give us full system information! I am sorry for taking soo much space...... -- Jeff Ellis ESIX SYSTEM/V UUCP:uunet!zardoz!everex!jde US Mail: 1923 St. Andrew Place, Santa Ana, CA 92705
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (05/01/91)
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) writes: >>$500 per year for support -- officially, they only support it >>on Dell hardware (I think) - but many of the problems I've encountered >WoW!!!! I seriously doubt many people with HOME systems are going to >jump for that one! that's cheap - both ISC and SCO are well above $1200 >That doesn't sound too bad, though, for companies. Does the $500 per >year include free patches (as required to fix problems) and unlimited >telephone support? yes - with Dell, but no on the others - which limit you to X number of calls -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (05/01/91)
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) writes: >I agree that their philosophy makes sense. By supporting only their own >hardware, they have a better sense of what works and what doesn't work. >This being the case, though, it pretty much makes Dell Unix's existence >irrelevent to a large percentage of comp.unix.sysv386 readers. I'd be >willing to bet that a pretty small percentage of us has Dell hardware. >Bringing up DELL unix as a comparison to Esix, ISC or SCO doesn't amount >to much I guess. yes - but if Dell's base machine is a 386/33 with AMI bios and Adaptec 1542B - which is standard hardware in my book - who cares? -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
rwhite@nusdecs.uucp (Robert White) (05/01/91)
Eh, I dont *write* device drivers for a living, but I have been screwed by my fair share (or more 8-)... In article <1991Apr29.131717.21093@rwwa.COM> witr@rwwa.COM (Robert Withrow) writes: >The bottom line is that the SVR4 documentation is spotty. It goes on >at great length about things (IMHO) no one gives a damn about (like >FMLI) and is annoyingly silent about things that matter (like >streams-based terminal drivers). The AT&T authorized manuals from prentice hall seemed prety detailed. I saw them at my local book store. One of the books was a how-to for kernel modules which included the structures for STREAMS Terminal drivers and like that. It also had things like how to add poll(2) capibility to a non- STREAMS driver, with programming examples. It was a deep and muddy green set of books whose titles were taken directly from the manual set offered by AT&T (or so it seemed) but it had some of the information that I have only been able to get form AT&T in the Xroxed-sheaf-of-papers format. Hey, Id Est. Rob.
lethin@raisin-scone.ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin) (05/01/91)
In article <15283@life.ai.mit.edu> lethin@ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin) writes: > >We built a custom board for the ISA bus to interface to some research >equipment, and have been debugging it using MSDOS. Soon, we would >like drop this board into a UNIX-based 386 system that we can access >via the ethernet from our SPARCstations. > >I've considering a few options: >... I decided to go with a complete Dell system (hardware+UNIX) 1) Their phone salespeople are sharp, always return calls, and are really on top of things. Very pleasant to deal with. 2) Their prices are competitive. They offer an educational discount. 3) 30-day return policy on the operating system. 4) They'll factory-install the OS. Very nice, saves us a lot of trouble. However, they won't factory-install both UNIX and DOS; if we need to do this I guess we're going to need to figure it out ourselves. 5) I bought the service contract. I chatted with some of the people in the UNIX shop before making the decision and they seemed knowledgeable. 6) It's pricey (when you include the service contract, developer's toolkit, and required tape drive) but I'm hoping the convenience will justify the decision. For a home system, it is too expensive. 7) The MIT microcomputer center supports Dell. (The 1-2 user vs. multiuser pricing is something that drives me nuts - it reminds me of trying to login to a DECstation 3100 and to be kept out due to a similar restriction. AT&T should do themselves a favor and remove this extremely negative licensing relic.) The complete system looks something like this (remember that this is with the Educational discount) Dell 333D 386-33 Mhz computer $2380 8 Mb RAM $759 3.5 inch floppy disk drive $94 200 Mb Hard Disk $854 VGA Color Plus Video Monitor $379 150 Mb Tape drive $759 16-bit ethernet card $265 DOS, Windows, Mouse $95 UNIX System V Release 4 $945 Developer's Tool Kit $522 Software Support Contract $333 ----- $7385
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) (05/01/91)
In article <1991Apr30.173134.11376@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: >yes - but if Dell's base machine is a 386/33 with AMI bios and Adaptec 1542B >- which is standard hardware in my book - who cares? > Every motherboard is different. Every combination of disk drives is different. Just for example, I am using SCSI because I thought I could just plunk any ole scsi drive on the bus and build up a daisy chain of drives. As it turns out, with one combination of drives I just happen to have, I can't run SCSICNTL or debug on one of the drives! To do so, I need to disconnect one of the drives. This is just one example of subtle little incompatibilities. -- bill@unixland.uucp The Think_Tank BBS & Public Access Unix ...!uunet!think!unixland!bill ..!{uunet,bloom-beacon,esegue}!world!unixland!bill 508-655-3848 (2400) 508-651-8723 (9600-HST) 508-651-8733 (9600-PEP-V32)
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) (05/01/91)
In article <15444@life.ai.mit.edu> lethin@raisin-scone.ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin) writes: > >(The 1-2 user vs. multiuser pricing is something that drives me nuts - >it reminds me of trying to login to a DECstation 3100 and to be kept >out due to a similar restriction. AT&T should do themselves a favor That *IS* annoying! It must be an Ultrix thing in general, because we have the same problem on the 5000. Ahhhh, isn't it great to be 'root' :-) -- bill@unixland.uucp The Think_Tank BBS & Public Access Unix ...!uunet!think!unixland!bill ..!{uunet,bloom-beacon,esegue}!world!unixland!bill 508-655-3848 (2400) 508-651-8723 (9600-HST) 508-651-8733 (9600-PEP-V32)
john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) (05/01/91)
In article <15444@life.ai.mit.edu> lethin@raisin-scone.ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin) writes: >[Dell] UNIX System V Release 4 $945 >Developer's Tool Kit $522 What is the "Developer's Tool Kit"? I thought Dell SVR4 was complete. -- John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (05/02/91)
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) writes: >the bus and build up a daisy chain of drives. As it turns out, with >one combination of drives I just happen to have, I can't run SCSICNTL >or debug on one of the drives! To do so, I need to disconnect one of >the drives. This is just one example of subtle little incompatibilities. what drive gives you the problems with scsicntl? -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (05/02/91)
john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes: >In article <15444@life.ai.mit.edu> lethin@raisin-scone.ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin) writes: >>[Dell] UNIX System V Release 4 $945 >>Developer's Tool Kit $522 >What is the "Developer's Tool Kit"? I thought Dell SVR4 was complete. it is - $1295 for everything - I don't know what the poster is talking (writing) about... -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
lethin@raisin-scone.ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin) (05/02/91)
In article <15444@life.ai.mit.edu> lethin@raisin-scone.ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin) writes: >I decided to go with a complete Dell system (hardware+UNIX) >UNIX System V Release 4 $945 >Developer's Tool Kit $522 <--- OOPS *Correction* - there's no need to buy a developer's toolkit with V.4; Dell's V.4 is complete. (Interesting story: I was on the phone with our Dell 800 sales representative a few minutes ago, and she told me that she had just heard from one of their UNIX folks about my posting and that it was incorrect... she patched him in, and he saved me $522. Impressive service.) Sorry for the confusion.
bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) (05/02/91)
In article <1991May01.172734.10760@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: >bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) writes: > >>the bus and build up a daisy chain of drives. As it turns out, with >>one combination of drives I just happen to have, I can't run SCSICNTL >>or debug on one of the drives! To do so, I need to disconnect one of >>the drives. This is just one example of subtle little incompatibilities. > >what drive gives you the problems with scsicntl? I have the following configuration. The bus is terminated correctly (at each end), and all drives/host adapter are configured for parity. I experimented with various methods of providing scsi terminating power, to no avail. CDC Wren IV SCSI ID 1 --| | Archive | Viper 2150S | SCSI ID 4 --| When running SCSICNTL in this configuration, | it reports something like "drive did not respond Adaptec | to drive size query" (or something along those 1542b HA | lines). The Toshiba drive info doesn't show up SCSI ID 7 --| in the "select unit" menu. When running with | either the Toshiba or Maxtor disconnected, and | terminations/scsi ids changed as appropriate, Toshiba | everything is fine. MK-156FB | SCSI ID 2 --| This configuration has been running with Esix for | several weeks now. The only anomaly I've noticed Maxtor | so far (aside from not being able to properly use 8760S | SCSICNTL or DEBUG) is that my UUCP *INBOUND* rates SCSI ID 0 --| have fallen from 1250 CPS to 700 CPS !!! VERY ODD! To answer your question, I'm not sure which drive causes the problem. It seems to be some incompatibility problem between the Toshiba and Maxtor drives. Someone suggested that these two drives don't implement SCSI protocol very well, so they wouldn't be happy co-existing. -- bill@unixland.uucp The Think_Tank BBS & Public Access Unix ...!uunet!think!unixland!bill ..!{uunet,bloom-beacon,esegue}!world!unixland!bill 508-655-3848 (2400) 508-651-8723 (9600-HST) 508-651-8733 (9600-PEP-V32)
dewey@dell.dell.com (Dewey Coffman) (05/02/91)
In article <NY=+6.=@jwt.UUCP> john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes: >In article <15444@life.ai.mit.edu> lethin@raisin-scone.ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin) writes: >>[Dell] UNIX System V Release 4 $945 >>Developer's Tool Kit $522 > >What is the "Developer's Tool Kit"? I thought Dell SVR4 was complete. >-- >John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john) Dell SVR4 is complete. The "Developers Tool Kit" was for our V.3.2 version of UNIX. I talked to Richard Lethin and his sales rep today and let him know, he didn't need the Developer's Tool Kit. Dell UNIX V.4 includes all the Development tools, including X11R4 development tools. He had been pricing a V.3.2 UNIX System from us and switched to V.4., Hence, the confusion. dewey -- Dewey Coffman UUCP: dell!sooner!dewey, cs.utexas.edu!dell!sooner!dewey
jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) (05/04/91)
In article <1991Apr28.024726.24206@jwt.UUCP> john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes: >In article <1991Apr27.180658.18160@techbook.com> jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes: >>I like the attitude of ESIX towards customer support: call them, tell them >>your problem, and they help you fix it. > >There's one thing I find very disconcerting about ESIX tech support. >When you call the tech support number, a tech support person answers >the phone. I'm just so programmed into expecting to go through seven >levels of synthesized female voice menus, followed by "please wait >while your call is transferred" followed by "all of our representatives >are busy now, please hold," I just seem to freeze up when a real person >answers the phone. :) True. It seems like even companies that consist of one programmer (part- time) and his cat are using those telecomm systems. I was very surprised when somebody told me his experience when calling ESIX. The conversation went something like this: (ring, ring) "Hello, ESIX tech support. This is somebody." "Hi, I have a problem." "What is it?" "I'm having problems with configuring my Logitech mouse." "Well, what you need to do is ... blah, blah." Very nice. Things down there seem to be kind of confused, which I think there are two reason for: one is the pressure to get 4.0 out the door (it's still in the "Real Soon Now" stage), and the other is that they moved their marketing people into the same people as the techies. One can hope that they'll cross- pollinate the right way, with the techies influencing the marketing people and not the other way 'round. -- Voice: +1 503 646-8257 FAX: +1 503 248-6320 jamesd@techbook.com - or - Public Access UNIX site: +1 503 644-8135 ...!uunet!techbook!jamesd TECHbooks sells technical (and other) books at discounted prices. Authorized SCO and ESIX resellers.
jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) (05/04/91)
In article <1991Apr28.025344.27664@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes: >jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes: > >>I've seen basically good things about Dell 4.0, and I wouldn't trust Microport >>or UHC. I just don't think they'll be around in a couple of years, and that's > >Sounds like marketing BS to me. Statements like this, without a basis in >facts are likely to result in lawsuits from the companies whose products you >are not selling and chose to bash. They know where to find me. "Statements like this" are made on the basis of what I've seen in this newsgroup, on other electronic networks, reports from people I've talked to, and first-hand experience. If you'd like to show me something that indicates that I'm wrong, I'll change my tune. But that's not what I've heard, read, or experienced. >Yes, I know you made a postive comment about Dell, but they are not really >competing in the general (i.e. non-dell hardware) unix reselling market. Were I developing a product for resale in the UNIX market, I would grit my teeth and use SCO. To most of the market, "UNIX on a PC" is equivalent to SCO. They're the market leader, and you have to take account of that fact. Were I to develop a product for internal use at my (theoretical) hundred sites, I would again go with SCO. They have the training and support at many more locations than anyone else. They have more products written for them than anybody else. Etc., etc. (And I've just seen a compliment for good SCO support.) I keep hearing from Larry about the Interactive FFS and SCSI support, and they've pioneered some neat innovations. And writing their 4.0 from the ground up shows that they want to (at the very least) want to make their own mistakes or (best case) have some genuinely better ideas on how to do it. It's probably harder for (relatively) big companies like SCO to provide good support and keep close contact with their customers. I'm disappointed in ESIX for not shipping when they said they would. Maybe they are having problems with packaging, or maybe the problems with "packaging" are that they don't want to ship something that still has a few fatal bugs in it. But they've been promising to ship in April for quite a while, and didn't make it. Bottom line: there's no solution perfect for everyone. -- Voice: +1 503 646-8257 FAX: +1 503 248-6320 jamesd@techbook.com - or - Public Access UNIX site: +1 503 644-8135 ...!uunet!techbook!jamesd TECHbooks sells technical (and other) books at discounted prices. Authorized SCO and ESIX resellers.
bir7@ypig.stanford.edu (Ross Biro) (05/04/91)
In article <1991May3.203044.10456@techbook.com> jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes: >the "Real Soon Now" stage), and the other is that they moved their marketing >people into the same people as the techies. One can hope that they'll cross- Say it ain't so. 8-( -- Ross Biro bir7@leland.stanford.edu
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (05/04/91)
jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes: >SCO. They're the market leader, and you have to take account of that fact. they are the market leader based on XENIX sales - not UNIX SVR3.2 sales -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
Pochi@cup.portal.com (Hideya Pochi Yoshida) (05/06/91)
I'm a just UNIX beginner planning to set up a SVR4 on any 486ISA machine. In the article on 4/28/91, larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: |cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes: |>Yes, I know you made a postive comment about Dell, but they are not really |>competing in the general (i.e. non-dell hardware) unix reselling market. |Yes they are - and their UNIX runs in many installations with non-dell |hardware. Heck, with Dell's SVR4 (for $1295 list) you get Dos Merge - |how many other SVR4 packages for $1295 give you the works - including |Dos Merge? And on 4/29/91, dave@pmafire.inel.gov (Dave Remien) writes: |I'm running a '486-25 OPTI chipset MB, 16MB RAM, Adaptec 1540 + Maxtor |8760S + Seagate 41200N + Archive SCSI, Dell GPX + VGA daughterboard, and |WD8013. [deleted] |I did talk to Dell before going with this configuration; they told me |pretty much what was and was not supported; that's why I'm running with |what I have. Thank you for your informations about Dell's SVR4. The product seems very attractive to me, since it includes GNU Emacs, news systems, and other useful goods, as well as development tool kits. 1) Does anyone know whether Dell's SVR4 can run on a Gateway 2000 486/33 Cache with the following configuration or not ? Gateway 486/33[*] + Adaptec 1540x + Wangtek or Archive QIC-150 SCSI tape drive [*] Feature of Gateway 486/33: i486/33 ISA (Phoenix BIOS) + 8MB RAM + 64k read/write back cache Western Digital 200MB IDE HDD w/ 64K multi segmented cache 5 1/4" + 3.5" FDD (EPSON) Diamond SpeedStar SVGA adapter w/ 1MB (using Tseng's chip) 1 parallel / 2 serial ports 2) Which is the most appropreate SCSI adapter of Adaptec 1540x's ? 3) Can additional SCSI HDD drives be used with the IDE drive ? Thanks in advance. Hideya Yoshida | hyoshida@ddbj.nig.ac.jp (Internet) Res. Inst. for Bioresources, | yoshida@chino.it.okayama-u.ac.jp Okayama University, JAPAN | pochi@cup.portal.com FAX:+81-864-21-0699 | 72071,326 (CompuServe)
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (05/06/91)
Pochi@cup.portal.com (Hideya Pochi Yoshida) writes: >1) Does anyone know whether Dell's SVR4 can run on a Gateway 2000 486/33 > Cache with the following configuration or not ? I do believe you have 30 days to try it on your hardware, but quite honestly, I see no reason why it shouldn't work. >2) Which is the most appropreate SCSI adapter of Adaptec 1540x's ? 1542B >3) Can additional SCSI HDD drives be used with the IDE drive ? I would suggest replacing the IDE since more than likely that will need to be your boot device (since it is set in CMOS and the drives on the 1542 aren't). -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
paulz@sco.COM (W. Paul Zola) (05/07/91)
In article <1991Apr30.172955.11199@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: [discussion of Support costs deleted] } }that's cheap - both ISC and SCO are well above $1200 } }>That doesn't sound too bad, though, for companies. Does the $500 per }>year include free patches (as required to fix problems) and unlimited }>telephone support? } }yes - with Dell, but no on the others - which limit you to X number }of calls I can't speak for ISC, of course, but this information is incorrect for SCO Support. 1) SCO Support offers a variety of support packages, the cheapest of which costs about $100/yr. $1200/yr sounds about right for our highest level of support (1 hour turnaround, guaranteed escalation to Engineering, etc.). Most people - certainly all owners of home machines - don't need this level of support, which was designed for VARs and large resellers. I believe our "standard" support package costs about $500/yr. (Don't quote me on this - I've never even seen a price list!) 2) All SCO Support packages are "unlimited calls" - you can call in as many times as you like for as many problems as you have with your particular supported product. } }-- } Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 } HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis } regional UUCP mapping coordinator } {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry} By all means, examine every '386 *NIX vendor. Just be sure to make your decision based on accurate information about costs and services. - Paul Zola Support Technical Lead, Operating System paulz@sco.COM Gotta tend the earth if you want a rose. - Emily Saliers DISCLAIMER: I speak for myself, and not for SCO.
larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) (05/08/91)
paulz@sco.COM (W. Paul Zola) writes: >1) SCO Support offers a variety of support packages, the cheapest of >which costs about $100/yr. $1200/yr sounds about right for our >highest level of support (1 hour turnaround, guaranteed escalation to >Engineering, etc.). Most people - certainly all owners of home >machines - don't need this level of support, which was designed for >VARs and large resellers. I believe our "standard" support package >costs about $500/yr. (Don't quote me on this - I've never even seen >a price list!) well I have, and the price for VAR support is between $3000 and $5000 per year (according to your Chicago sales office) >2) All SCO Support packages are "unlimited calls" - you can call in >as many times as you like for as many problems as you have with your >particular supported product. and the more you pay - the quicker the return call -- Larry Snyder, NSTAR Public Access Unix 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 HST/PEP/V.32/v.32bis/v.42bis regional UUCP mapping coordinator {larry@nstar.rn.com, ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!larry}
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (05/08/91)
In article <1991May05.214956.27289@nstar.rn.com> larry@nstar.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: | >3) Can additional SCSI HDD drives be used with the IDE drive ? | | I would suggest replacing the IDE since more than likely that | will need to be your boot device (since it is set in CMOS and | the drives on the 1542 aren't). I agree. I think it can be done with two controllers, but there's something funny in the Dell handling of multiple drives, and I can't find it in my notes. Something like you must have a UNIX partition on every drive, or must have DOS on the first if you have it anywhere, or... something unintuitive. -- bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen) sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
wes@harem.clydeunix.com (Barnacle Wes) (05/13/91)
In article <1991May1.222239.16203@unixland.uucp>, bill@unixland.uucp (Bill Heiser) writes: > To answer your question, I'm not sure which drive causes the problem. It > seems to be some incompatibility problem between the Toshiba and Maxtor > drives. Someone suggested that these two drives don't implement SCSI > protocol very well, so they wouldn't be happy co-existing. At my last job, we had a bunch of SGI Iris-4D workstations with SCSI drives. We needed to add a lot of disk space to about half the workstations, so we bought a bunch of Seagate/CSC/Imprimus 4766 drives in SGI-style enclosures, 3 to each machine. Half of the workstations were shipped by SGI with Toshiba drives, half with Maxtor. The Seagate drives work fine on the Maxtor equipped workstations, but attempting to add more than one Seagate to any machine with a Toshiba drive results in NONE of the Seagate drives repsonding. SGI's 'fx' disk utility complains of timeouts on the SCSI bus. The same Seagate drives work fine on a machine with a Maxtor drive. Are the Toshiba MK series drives causing this problem somehow? I'm going to buy a 486 machine and Esix Vr4 later this summer and I want to use the Adaptec 1542b with several :-) Seagate 1000 series drives, i.e. 1096N. Can anybody give me reports of their experiences with these devices? Prices on the Seagates seem to be pretty reasonable (read: cheap!) lately. Thanks in advance. Wes Peters -- #include <std/disclaimer.h> The worst day sailing My opinions, your screen. is much better than Raxco had nothing to do with this! the best day at work. Wes Peters: wes@harem.clydeunix.com ...!sun!unislc!harem!wes