[comp.unix.sysv386] Is >16MB possible on ISA box

leo@aai.com (05/10/91)

The EISA support update says it's ONLY for EISA bus computers.  The kconfig
options only mention 4M, 8M, and 16M.  Will ISC use any memory over 16M on
an ISA machine, or is it ignored?  Is there some other update that
addresses this?  Will the EISA update work on an ISA machine?

Thanks for any info!
-- 
Leo	leo@aai.com   leo%aai@uunet.uu.net   ...uunet!aai!leo

cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) (05/11/91)

leo@aai.com writes:

>The EISA support update says it's ONLY for EISA bus computers.  The kconfig
>options only mention 4M, 8M, and 16M.  Will ISC use any memory over 16M on
>an ISA machine, or is it ignored?  Is there some other update that
>addresses this?  Will the EISA update work on an ISA machine?

No.  The problem is that DMA will not work from a device on the ISA bus
to memory above 16MB.

-- 
Conor P. Cahill            (703)430-9247        Virtual Technologies, Inc.
uunet!virtech!cpcahil                           46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160
                                                Sterling, VA 22170 

richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) (05/13/91)

>>The EISA support update says it's ONLY for EISA bus computers.  The kconfig
>>options only mention 4M, 8M, and 16M.  Will ISC use any memory over 16M on
>>an ISA machine, or is it ignored?  Is there some other update that
>>addresses this?  Will the EISA update work on an ISA machine?
>
>No.  The problem is that DMA will not work from a device on the ISA bus
>to memory above 16MB.

Okay, so ISC blew it.  It IS possible to run ISA bus Unix with greater
than 16 megs of memory.  DMA is not a necessity.  I've seen people
reporting 24 megs and more, in this forum, on ISA bus machines.

So what is the real situation today?  Which 386 ports of Unix will support
greater than 16 megs on the ISA bus?  (Did the MEMRANGE spec actually
vaporize with ISC's 2.2, or is it just hiding somewhere else?)


-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com

cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) (05/13/91)

richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes:

>Okay, so ISC blew it.  It IS possible to run ISA bus Unix with greater
>than 16 megs of memory.  DMA is not a necessity.  I've seen people
>reporting 24 megs and more, in this forum, on ISA bus machines.

I wouldn't say ISC blew it.  The original System V 3.2 only supports up to
16 MB and requires changes to support additional memory.  Somewhere along
the way ISC decided that the market for >16MB on an ISA bus is too small
to justify the additional effort required to support it.

As far as I know, SCO is the only vendor to support > 16 MB (although I
don't know if it will work on ISA bus systems, but I think it will). SCO
did this by using the "epanded memory" trick that is used by many dos
systems (it copies a page down below 16MB whenever a page is accessed
by a bus operation).  This works the same way under EISA systems, even 
though it isn't necessary there.

On the other hand, ISC has committed to supporting > 16MB on many EISA systems
in full native mode in release 2.3. (An update disk that works for several
EISA MBs, but fails on some others is available.  A more general one is 
in the works - no word on the actual release date).

>So what is the real situation today?  Which 386 ports of Unix will support
>greater than 16 megs on the ISA bus?  (Did the MEMRANGE spec actually
>vaporize with ISC's 2.2, or is it just hiding somewhere else?)

The MEMRANGE spec went away in 2.2, but I don't think it worked correctly
in 2.0.2.  We set up a system with 32MB of memory and a 12MB ram disk.  When
we went above 4MB of processes, the system crashed.  One of my distributors
told me that they did a similar test with no ram disk and the system 
crashed when they went above 16MB of processes/kernel.  So while the 
system said it saw more than 16MB, it appears that it did not use it 
correctly.

-- 
Conor P. Cahill            (703)430-9247        Virtual Technologies, Inc.
uunet!virtech!cpcahil                           46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160
                                                Sterling, VA 22170 

urban@cbnewsl.att.com (john.urban) (05/13/91)

In article <1991May13.004012.18572@pegasus.com> richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes:
	DELETED STUFF
>						I've seen people
>reporting 24 megs and more, in this forum, on ISA bus machines.
>
>So what is the real situation today?  Which 386 ports of Unix will support
>greater than 16 megs on the ISA bus?  (Did the MEMRANGE spec actually
>vaporize with ISC's 2.2, or is it just hiding somewhere else?)

AT&T UNIX System V/386 Release 3.2 Version 2.2 (and higher, ie 3.2 2.3 and 4.0)
support greater than 16 Meg on the ISA bus.  When more than 16 meg is available
it "moves" the DMA which would of occured above 16 meg to below 16 meg so that
the ISA bus (DMA chip) can do the DMA successfully.

Sincerely,

John Ben Urban
att!garage!jbu

scf@statware.UUCP ( Steve Fullerton) (05/14/91)

In article <1991May13.115029.14295@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes:
>richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes:
>>...
>As far as I know, SCO is the only vendor to support > 16 MB (although I
>don't know if it will work on ISA bus systems, but I think it will). SCO
>did this by using the "epanded memory" trick that is used by many dos
>systems (it copies a page down below 16MB whenever a page is accessed
>by a bus operation).  This works the same way under EISA systems, even 
>though it isn't necessary there.

We are running SCO UNIX 3.2V2 on an ISA system with 32 MB of memory and
haven't had many problems.  We run X (from ODT) with TCP/IP, NFS, and
Ingres with additional swap on a second disk (2 760 MB ESDI).  The boot
message is

mem: total = 32384k, kernel = 5740k, user = 26644k

The average number of processes hovers around 120 with only 5-6 users
(lot's of X though).  The only memory related problem is that we seem
to have maxed out some of the kernel parameters; e.g., NREGION.  We get
"region table overflow" messages, but trying to push it up with configure
warns us that the maximum is 350 and exceeding it will result in SEVERE
system problems.

-- 
Steve Fullerton                        Statware, Inc.
scf%statware.uucp@cs.orst.edu          260 SW Madison Ave, Suite 109
orstcs!statware!scf                    Corvallis, OR  97333
                                       503/753-5382

randy@chinet.chi.il.us (Randy Suess) (05/14/91)

In article <1991May13.115029.14295@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes:
>As far as I know, SCO is the only vendor to support > 16 MB (although I
>don't know if it will work on ISA bus systems, but I think it will). SCO
>                                                Sterling, VA 22170 
	AT&T SysvR3.2? runs on their 6386 box's (ISA) with up to
	40 megs memory just fine.  They use their own DMA controller
	on a 32 bit bus.  I guess the kernel must have special
	support for over 16 megs, because when I try to run
	QEMM (a 386 memory manager) under dos on the same machine,
	it goes nuts.  Bring it down to 16 megs, and everything runs
	fine.


-- 
Randy Suess
randy@chinet.chi.il.us