hpa@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (H. Peter Anvin) (05/28/91)
The subject line says it all. Is any of the quite a few UNIX packages for
386 machines derived from 4.2BSD or 4.3BSD, or are they all AT&T System V?
Oh yes, then there is Coherent...
/Peter
--
MAIL: hpa@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (hpa@nwu.edu after this summer)
"finger" the address above for more information.mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Squires) (05/28/91)
1. See Dr. Dobb's magazine for articles by Jolitz et al on the porting of
BSD UNIX to the 386. My understanding is that this will only be made
available to source code license holders as part of the 4.4 BSD
distribution.
2. Buy a used Sun 386i. They are a drug on the market now (one surplus house
had 386i/150's for sale for $2000, new, for months with apparently few
takers). I'd go for a 386i/250; one with a 19" color monitor and 330MB
HD/60MB tape drive went last year for $5000, and the prices should be
lower now by a good bit.
My experience with a 386i/250 was that it was quite a bit slower than a
386/20 running SCO XENIX, especially when the system loaded up. However,
things like X11R4 apparently compile on the 386i without giant hassles.
--
Mike Squires (mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu) 812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu 546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408
Under construction: mikes@sir-alan.cica.indiana.eduericb@eecs.cs.pdx.edu (Eric Berggren) (05/30/91)
Regarding 386BSD, anyone catch an aproximate release date on this beast? Or is it being suspended until 4.4? -e.b. ============================================================================== Eric Berggren | "Life is a Turing Test; Computer Science/Eng. | We're all automatons!" ericb@eecs.cs.pdx.edu | - (click, whir, buzz, chirp)
jshumate@wrdis01.af.mil ( Shumate Jason) (05/30/91)
I have followed the BSD 386 UNIX story in Dr. Dobb's Journal since Feb. (I missed the 1st article in Jan.) In none of the articles do the authors list any points of contact for the BSD port, yet the articles appear to me to imply that BSD 386 UNIX is a finished product. My organization might be interested in getting BSD 386 UNIX, but who do we contact? Out of desperation, I tried sending email to one of the authors, but no response yet. I would suggest that if the good folks at Berkeley are serious about getting people to use their product, they might make it known how to get it. We'll probably get SCO UNIX now, so Berkeley lost a potential sale. -- CUL8R, | Unknown Actor:"Sounds like a lot of Jason Shumate | supernatural baloney to me." System Administrator, wrdis02 | Bela Lugosi:"Supernatural, perhaps. jshumate@logdis1.wr.aflc.af.mil | Baloney, perhaps not."
del@fnx.UUCP (Dag Erik Lindberg) (06/01/91)
In article <756@wrdis01.af.mil> jshumate@wrdis01.af.mil ( Shumate Jason) writes: >imply that BSD 386 UNIX is a finished product. My organization might be >interested in getting BSD 386 UNIX, but who do we contact? Out of >desperation, I tried sending email to one of the authors, but no response yet. >I would suggest that if the good folks at Berkeley are serious about getting >people to use their product, they might make it known how to get it. We'll >probably get SCO UNIX now, so Berkeley lost a potential sale. All this stuff about 386 BSD was covered in comp.unix.sysv386 not too long ago. The bottom line is this: - Berkeley doesn't make any money on the product, so they don't really care *what* unix you run. - The authors are busy with stuff they consider important, and don't really care to answer most of the external email they receive. - 386 BSD is available in source form only. Furthermore, it is not a complete distribution, i.e. you must already have an AT&T source license in order to build 386BSD. For those of you that are wondering what that costs, source licenses *start* at about $70,000.00. If you are still interested in pursuing 386BSD, get your source license in order, *then* send email to the authors telling them you have the source license and who should you contact to proceed. Allow 6-8 weeks for delivery... -- del AKA Erik Lindberg uunet!pilchuck!fnx!del Who is John Galt?
andyb@stb.info.com (Andy B.) (06/01/91)
mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Squires) writes: > 2. Buy a used Sun 386i. They are a drug on the market now (one surplus house > had 386i/150's for sale for $2000, new, for months with apparently few > takers). I'd go for a 386i/250; one with a 19" color monitor and 330MB > HD/60MB tape drive went last year for $5000, and the prices should be > lower now by a good bit. > > My experience with a 386i/250 was that it was quite a bit slower than a > 386/20 running SCO XENIX, especially when the system loaded up. However, > things like X11R4 apparently compile on the 386i without giant hassles. This caught my eye. Does anyone have a list of the various Suns in order of speed/power/price? 386i/250 would seem to be faster than a 386/20 just from the naming convention. Is this a fluke? Andy -- If it's not broken...your girlfriend will get bored with it anyway.
richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) (06/01/91)
>I have followed the BSD 386 UNIX story in Dr. Dobb's Journal since Feb. (I >missed the 1st article in Jan.) In none of the articles do the authors list >any points of contact for the BSD port, yet the articles appear to me to >imply that BSD 386 UNIX is a finished product. My organization might be >interested in getting BSD 386 UNIX, but who do we contact? Out of >desperation, I tried sending email to one of the authors, but no response yet. It's not ready yet. And contrary to what another poster said, Berkeley's intent is apparently to provide the complete OS completely free of AT&T licensing requirements. Seems like that may take a while... I sent email to one of the addresses provided in the magazine and got the this response: > From: lynne@okeeffe.Berkeley.EDU (Lynne Jolitz) > Message-Id: <9102052002.AA03110@okeeffe.Berkeley.EDU> > To: richard@pegasus.com, william@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU > Subject: Re: 386BSD > > > Thank you for your inquiry on 386BSD. > > 386BSD is distributed by the University of California at Berkeley CSRG. > You should contact them at 415-642-7780 when 386BSD is available. > In the meantime, the February issue will feature several complete and > freely redistributable programs used in the actual 386BSD port. > > BTW, here is the University's official statement on the subject: > " The 386BSD support will be available in February as part of a revision > of the 1989 Networking Release distribution. > One very important fact to remember is, that although the 386BSD itself > support is freely redistributable, much of the rest of the operating system > and utilities require source licenses. > Therefore, the February distribution will NOT be a complete system and > cannot be booted or run on a 386 machine. > The distribution will require only a Berkeley license and distribution fee. > Previous fees were approximately $500, but the actual fee has not yet > been determined. > > The 4.4BSD release is scheduled for the middle of 1991, and additional, > support for the 386 will be made available at that time." > > [...] > > Bill and Lynne Jolitz. > BTW: If you found the article interesting/important you might consider sending a note to the editors of Dr. Dobb's saying so. That's one way to help keep the journals on track. -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com
wagner@chepil.weru.ksu.edu (Larry Wagner) (06/03/91)
andyb@stb.info.com (Andy B.) writes: >mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Squires) writes: >> 2. Buy a used Sun 386i. They are a drug on the market now (one surplus house >> had 386i/150's for sale for $2000, new, for months with apparently few >> takers). I'd go for a 386i/250; one with a 19" color monitor and 330MB >> HD/60MB tape drive went last year for $5000, and the prices should be >> lower now by a good bit. >> >> My experience with a 386i/250 was that it was quite a bit slower than a >> 386/20 running SCO XENIX, especially when the system loaded up. However, >> things like X11R4 apparently compile on the 386i without giant hassles. >This caught my eye. Does anyone have a list of the various Suns >in order of speed/power/price? 386i/250 would seem to be faster >than a 386/20 just from the naming convention. Is this a fluke? Sun sold three versions or models of the 386i: 1) A 5 mips (Sun's numbers) machine (386i/250) that consists of a 25MHz 80386 and 80387 with a cached memory board capable of holding up to 16MB of 80ns ram. 2) A 4 mips machine (386i/150) that consists of a 20MHz 80386 and 80387 with a cached memory board capable of holding up to 16MB of 80ns ram. 3) A 3 mips machine (386i/150) that consists of a 20MHz 80386 and 80387 with a non-cached memory board capable of holding up to 8MB of 100ns ram. There was some type of additional designation between the fast and slow 20MHz versions but I don't remember them. I use a 386i/250 with 16MB at work with OpenWindows (Sun's version of X-windows). It is acceptable for most of the work I do. I have used the slow 20MHz machine with 8MB of ram with MIT's X-windows also. It is actually just as fast as my machine with respect to screen i/o, but significantly slower on cpu intensive tasks. We have several Gateway 2000 386/20 machines here (without cache cards) and the 386i/250 consistently scores higher than they do on DOS cpu intensive benchmarks. The 386i/250 is also noticably faster doing such things as compiling programs with Microsoft C than the 386 PCs, probably because of the faster disks on the 386i. We have just recently ordered an additional 386i/250 (used since SUN no longer makes them). Our best quoted price for a 386i/250 with 8MB of ram, 19 inch monitor, and 155MB disk was $3300. They also matched SUN's original warranty of 90 days. Others bids were around $4000. It's tough to meet that price with a PC when you need the coprocessor, high resolution monitor, ethernet, some form of multi-tasking, and network software. If anyone needs the names, addresses, and/or phone numbers of these vendors just ask. I am at home and do not have that info here. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Larry E. Wagner | wagner@chepil.weru.ksu.edu USDA-ARS Wind Erosion Research Unit | wagner@matt.ksu.ksu.edu 105B East Waters Hall, KSU | ...!{rutgers,texbell}!ksuvax1!weru!wagner Manhattan, KS 66506 |phone (913)532-6807 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
storch@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Matthew Storch) (06/05/91)
Larry, Could you please post or email me the name and phone number of the place where you bought you latest 386i? Also, do you which issue of Byte (or any other major magazine) has a review of the machine, back when it first came out? I mentioned Byte because I think the 386i was on the cover...but I'm not sure. In case I have difficulty locating an article, do you happen to know if the 19" monitor is any sort of standard display (i.e. might it be useable on another machine someday, and is it replaceable if it breaks?). Also, do you know if the hard drive is SCSI, ST506/412 or some other standard? The machine sounds like a good buy IF it's not full of proprietary parts... Thanks, Matt
wagner@chepil.weru.ksu.edu (Larry Wagner) (06/05/91)
storch@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Matthew Storch) writes: >Larry, > Could you please post or email me the name and phone number of the >place where you bought you latest 386i? Also, do you which issue of Byte (or >any other major magazine) has a review of the machine, back when it first came >out? I mentioned Byte because I think the 386i was on the cover...but I'm not >sure. > In case I have difficulty locating an article, do you happen to know >if the 19" monitor is any sort of standard display (i.e. might it be useable >on another machine someday, and is it replaceable if it breaks?). Also, do >you know if the hard drive is SCSI, ST506/412 or some other standard? > The machine sounds like a good buy IF it's not full of proprietary >parts... > Thanks, > Matt Don't remember anymore which magazines had reviews of the 386i. The 386i's I know of here (around KSU campus) all have the color 16" SONY monitors. These all work with Sun's 1152x900 pixel 8-plane frame buffer. I have not yet seen the 19" color monitor (since I have not received the machine yet). I think it is an Hitachi. Since it uses the same 1152x900 frame buffer as the 16" monitor, was only $50 more from this vendor, and we were interested in having a machine with more surface area to reduce the amount of window overlap without selecting fonts that were unreadable, we went for it. Hopefully, we won't be disappointed. The 16" monitor is very good and hopefully we will feel the same way about the 19" monitor. Since both monitors use the same frame buffer, the cabling will be the same. Ours has three separate (RCA?) connectors for the red, green, and blue inputs, and a sync connector on the back of the monitor. This sort of connections are common for many workstations and image analysis equipment, so the monitor should be replaceable and/or useable on other machines. The hard drives are SCSI drives. The basic machine contains proprietary parts in the sense that if the machine itself fails or has problems that need repair, you will need to go to Sun to have it fixed or to a third-party vendor who can repair Sun workstations. This is typical of workstation machines. Thus, if such a problem occurs, it will probably be more expensive to repair than a comparable problem with a PC. However, all of the add-on devices such as disk drives, extra serial ports, etc. can be handled through other vendors. The 386i is a workstation running SunOS with the capability of running DOS (multiple sessions) simultaneously using the 386's virtual 8086 mode. It cannot run DOS only since it does not have a PC compatible rom. It comes with one serial and parallel port, a SCSI port, and an ethernet port. It has 3 AT/XT compatible slots and one XT compatible slot, therefore PC-compatible peripherals can be installed in the machine. The peripherals can be accessed under Unix (if you have the appropriate drivers) and/or under DOS. As with all used equipment, you should not rush out and purchase it without knowing what you are getting into. Since we currently have a 386i and are familiar with what it can and can't do, we felt that it was the right thing for us to do in our situation. We know that Sun is not going to come out with any OS upgrades for the machine and will be dropping hardware and software support in 1995. Well, here is the compiled list my student worker put together on vendors selling 386i's. Vendor Contact Phone # price Color Sz Disk VGA !GR Accel Ram tape manuals os warranty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Electro Rent Ed Dorn 415.964.5500 4400 16 91 NO NO 8 NO 386i yes 120day Spectron Corp Chuck Hughes 206.827.9317 ????? n/a Marathon Computers -- BEST Tom Hastings 408.395.7354 4295 16 327 NO NO 8 NO 386i yes 30 day Cal Tech gsb@bach.caltech.edu 818.356.4574 2500 obo 16 0 NO NO 8 NO FULL yes as-is GenStar Jerry Backzkowski 800.422.3300 4500 16 n/a? 155 556 NO 8 629 FULL yes 90days Univ. Washington Joe Picciano 206.543.3666 4600 16 155 NO NO 12 NO FULL yes as-is Minicomputer Exchange Brandon 408.733.4400 4100 16 91 NO NO 8 NO NO yes 30day eligible for SUN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And the one that gave the lowest bid for our specified configuration: Solar Systems -- Steve Johnston -- 8220 154th Ave, N.E. Westpark Building K Redmond, WA 98052 1.800.253.5764 1.206.869.9354 1.206.869.2345 (FAX) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Larry E. Wagner | wagner@chepil.weru.ksu.edu USDA-ARS Wind Erosion Research Unit | wagner@matt.ksu.ksu.edu 105B East Waters Hall, KSU | ...!{rutgers,texbell}!ksuvax1!weru!wagner Manhattan, KS 66506 |phone (913)532-6807 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------