chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) (10/04/90)
[ Followups to comp.unix.misc ] According to russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto): >In article <270897A8.6F6C@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >>A true wizard is not only well-informed and experienced. She is also >>gracious and generous. She patiently answers questions that lesser >>beings might consider to be too "simple" or even "stupid" to bother >>with. > >Sounds more like a 'slave consultant' than a wizard. People of real stature need not be slaves to be helpful. >Why do you use 'she'? A better question is, "Why not?" -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip>
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (10/06/90)
In article <270B296A.17D3@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >[ Followups to comp.unix.misc ] > >According to russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto): >>In article <270897A8.6F6C@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >>>A true wizard is not only well-informed and experienced. She is also >>>gracious and generous. She patiently answers questions that lesser >>>beings might consider to be too "simple" or even "stupid" to bother >>>with. >> >>Sounds more like a 'slave consultant' than a wizard. > >People of real stature need not be slaves to be helpful. Right-- and they have time to constantly answer the same simple (or stupid) questions over and over and over again. Say, how do you delete a file which beings with '-'? > >>Why do you use 'she'? > >A better question is, "Why not?" Why did you delete my answer to that question (which I anticipated)-- because NONE of the regular posters to c.u.w seemed to be female, and in fact no unix wizards on the net seem to be female... Using 'she' to refer to what, for whatever reason, is an exclusively male group, seems to be dead wrong. If you know of any female unix wizards on the net, please tell me. I'd bet that you could count them on one hand. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus.
lerman@stpstn.UUCP (Ken Lerman) (10/09/90)
In article <1990Oct6.050950.16265@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: [...] >If you know of any female unix wizards on the net, please tell me. I'd bet >that you could count them on one hand. [...] From what I've read recently, I could count the number of wizards (regardless of gender) on the net on no hands. Ken
brtmac@maverick.ksu.ksu.edu (Brett McCoy) (10/09/90)
In <5660@stpstn.UUCP> lerman@stpstn.UUCP (Ken Lerman) writes: >In article <1990Oct6.050950.16265@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: >[...] >>If you know of any female unix wizards on the net, please tell me. I'd bet >>that you could count them on one hand. >[...] >From what I've read recently, I could count the number of wizards >(regardless of gender) on the net on no hands. Any true wizard would be ashamed to post anything to this mockery of unix newsgroups so I don't think that you could calculate the number of wizards in existance by the amount of posting from wizards. -- Too bad the universe doesn't run in a segmented environment with protected memory. -- Wiz from "Wizards Bane" by Rick Cook Brett McCoy | Kansas State University brtmac@maverick.ksu.ksu.edu | UseNet news manager.
james@dlss2.UUCP (James Cummings) (10/09/90)
In article <5660@stpstn.UUCP> lerman@stpstn.UUCP (Ken Lerman) writes: >From what I've read recently, I could count the number of wizards >(regardless of gender) on the net on no hands. OUCH!
chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) (10/09/90)
According to russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto): >In article <270B296A.17D3@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >>People of real stature need not be slaves to be helpful. > >Right-- and they have time to constantly answer the same simple (or stupid) >questions over and over and over again. Say, how do you delete a file which >beings with '-'? Prefix it with "./". Any more questions? >Using 'she' to refer to what, for whatever reason, is an exclusively >male group, seems to be dead wrong. "Posters to c.u.wizards" are not the same group as "wizards." You refer to the former; I was (and still am) talking about the latter. -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip> "I've been cranky ever since my comp.unix.wizards was removed by that evil Chip Salzenberg." -- John F. Haugh II
wendy@jove.cs.pdx.edu (Wendy Wilhelm) (10/10/90)
>>Right-- and they have time to constantly answer the same simple (or stupid) >>questions over and over and over again. Say, how do you delete a file which >>beings with '-'? Yes.... I must agree.... It is getting a *little* old... >>Using 'she' to refer to what, for whatever reason, is an exclusively >>male group, seems to be dead wrong. Why.... What's wrong with that..... And who are you to say that it's an "exclusively" male group...... Not to challenge you, but females do manage to do *all* sorts of things... However, I'm not an adament feminist, so, I don't really want to get into this male/female superiority kick... I'm not into that... >"Posters to c.u.wizards" are not the same group as "wizards." You >refer to the former; I was (and still am) talking about the latter. As far as wizard status goes, only in rogue, moria, and DND. As far as c.u.wizards, I don't know.... What is the job contract??? As far as being unix literate, I believe that I pass... I've answered the above question no less than the 100 times that it's been asked in the last month (factious, yes..... :) ) although I must admit that I too, have pretty much given up on this group... Female, last time I looked and I don't believe that it could change since then.... Don't sweat it... Life's not worth worrying so much over little details.... (me) Just my $.02 Wendy Wendy Wilhelm Portland State University Portland Center for Advanced Technology LOCAL: wendy NTERNET: wendy%{cs,ee}.pdx.edu UUCP:{ucbvax,uunet,gatech}!tektronix!pdxgate!{ee,cs}.pdx.edu!wendy
klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) (10/11/90)
In article <1990Oct6.050950.16265@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: > >Why did you delete my answer to that question (which I anticipated)-- because >NONE of the regular posters to c.u.w seemed to be female, and in fact no >unix wizards on the net seem to be female... Using 'she' to refer to what, for >whatever reason, is an exclusively male group, seems to be dead wrong. > >If you know of any female unix wizards on the net, please tell me. I'd bet >that you could count them on one hand. Why don't you just put a target on your back and walk across the archery range? Or maybe hold up a TV antenna in a thunderstorm? -- -Kevin L. Gross Systems Mgr. klg@Summation.WA.COM As long as the systems are up, my employers don't care what I think "Obviously, I am dealing with inferior mentalities." - Daffy Duck
paul@actrix.co.nz (Paul Gillingwater) (10/11/90)
In article <1990Oct6.050950.16265@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: >If you know of any female unix wizards on the net, please tell me. I'd bet >that you could count them on one hand. Start counting with Rebecca Thomas, PhD. who runs "Wizard's Grab Bag" in UNIX Today. If she's not a wizard(ess), she certainly runs quite a good column. I also have her book "ADVANCED PROGRAMMER'S GUIDE TO UNIX SYSTEM V", published by McGraw Hill. It shows a sound grasp of UNIX theory. The other authors are Lawrence R. Rogers and Jean L. Yates (Jean could count for number two). -- Paul Gillingwater, paul@actrix.co.nz
dave@viper.Lynx.MN.Org (David Messer) (10/11/90)
In article <270B296A.17D3@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >[ Followups to comp.unix.misc ] > >According to russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto): >>In article <270897A8.6F6C@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >>>A true wizard is not only well-informed and experienced. She is also >>>gracious and generous. She patiently answers questions that lesser >>>beings might consider to be too "simple" or even "stupid" to bother >>>with. > >>Why do you use 'she'? > >A better question is, "Why not?" To which the answer is: "To avoid confusing the reader by using a gender-specific pronoun where proper English usage is to use a gender-unspecified pronoun, namely 'he.'" This is a a good example of the damage caused by trying to change the language to suit a political adgenda -- here we are totally sidetracked from the point you made about wizards. -- Spelling is for computers. | David Messer dave@Lynx.MN.Org -or- | Lynx Data Systems ...!bungia!viper!dave
asylvain@felix.UUCP (Alvin "the Chipmunk" Sylvain) (10/12/90)
In article <1990Oct6.050950.16265@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: ::In article <270B296A.17D3@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: ::>[ Followups to comp.unix.misc ] ::> ::>According to russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto): ::>>In article <270897A8.6F6C@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: ::>>>A true wizard is not only well-informed and experienced. She is also ::>>>gracious and generous. She patiently answers questions that lesser ::>>>beings might consider to be too "simple" or even "stupid" to bother ::>>>with. ::>> ::>>Sounds more like a 'slave consultant' than a wizard. ::> ::>People of real stature need not be slaves to be helpful. [...] ::>>Why do you use 'she'? ::> ::>A better question is, "Why not?" [...] ::If you know of any female unix wizards on the net, please tell me. I'd bet ::that you could count them on one hand. =>Ah hem.<= It occurs to me that mayhaps female wizards know better! =>Cough cough<= =>Hack!<= (I'm straining, really I am, to keep from making any sexist remarks here! Shall we change the subject, please? Before somebody puts their foot into their mouth and brings down the wrath of feminists?) -- =======================Standard Disclaimers Apply======================= "We're sorry, but the reality you have dialed is no | Alvin longer in service. Please check the value of pi, | "the Chipmunk" or pray to your local diety for assistance." | Sylvain = = = = = =I haven't the smoggiest notion what my address is!= = = = = =
gilham@csl.sri.com (Fred Gilham) (10/13/90)
David Messer writes: ---------------------------------------- > >>Why do you use 'she'? > >A better question is, "Why not?" To which the answer is: "To avoid confusing the reader by using a gender-specific pronoun where proper English usage is to use a gender-unspecified pronoun, namely 'he.'" This is a a good example of the damage caused by trying to change the language to suit a political adgenda -- here we are totally sidetracked from the point you made about wizards. ---------------------------------------- I've always thought the best solution was to use something like the English do when they refer to children etc.: it. As in ``A true wizard is not only well-informed and experienced. It is also gracious and generous. It patiently answers questions that lesser....'' If people say it (`it', that is) often enough, the ear will adapt. Much more literary than he/she, (s)he, or whatever. Much less distracting than `he' to feminists or `she' to non-feminists. This discussion is getting awfully miscelleneous, though. -- Fred Gilham gilham@csl.sri.com I am professionally trained only in computer science, which is to say (in all seriousness) that I am extremely poorly educated. --Joseph Wiezenbaum
chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) (10/15/90)
According to dave@viper.Lynx.MN.Org (David Messer): >"To avoid confusing the reader by using a gender-specific pronoun where >proper English usage is to use a gender-unspecified pronoun, namely 'he.'" Did I use "proper English"? Strictly speaking, I did not. Someday, though -- perhaps due to people like myself who are willing to be "confusing" -- proper English usage may change to the optional use of "she" or "he" according to the whim of the writer. Such change won't happen on its own. A few must be first... -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip> "I've been cranky ever since my comp.unix.wizards was removed by that evil Chip Salzenberg." -- John F. Haugh II
gdh@calmasd.Prime.COM (Gerald Hall) (10/16/90)
In article <2719D550.51BE@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >According to dave@viper.Lynx.MN.Org (David Messer): >>"To avoid confusing the reader by using a gender-specific pronoun where >>proper English usage is to use a gender-unspecified pronoun, namely 'he.'" >proper English usage may change to the optional >use of "she" or "he" according to the whim of the writer. > Like it or not, the proper gender-unspecified singular pronoun is "they". Various 'grammar fascists' have tried to suppress this usage over the years by insisting that it is plural, however, the usage by native speakers is the proper definition of 'correct' grammar and there are pervasive examples in English literature where "they" is used as the singular "he or she" equivalent. Just think of "they" as number- unspecified (possibly or specifically singular from context) as well as gender-unspecified. -- / / Jerry CalmaSD UNIX SysAdmin +1 619 587-3065 /
mjd@saul.cis.upenn.edu (Mark-Jason Dominus) (10/19/90)
In article <1882@calmasd.Prime.COM> gdh@calmasd.Prime.COM (Gerald Hall) writes:
Like it or not, the proper gender-unspecified singular pronoun is "they".
Various 'grammar fascists' have tried to suppress this usage over the
years by insisting that it is plural...
It may be worth noting that this usage is well-established.
The Grammar Fascists have been after us to stop using it
for five hundred (!) years.
(Ref.: Oxford English Dictionary, 1st Ed.)
--
In some sense a stochastic process can do better; at least it has a chance.
Mark-Jason Dominus mjd@central.cis.upenn.edu