spaf@cs.purdue.EDU (Gene Spafford) (09/07/90)
In article <55@hyprion.ddmi.com> rabbit@hyprion.UUCP (Dr. Roger Rabbit) writes: >If you are trying to exclude some published material because it is >"run off in a basement somewhere", then you are a dangerous man, Mr. >Spafford. I'd like to think I'm dangerous no matter what I believe :-) I'm not trying to exclude anything. I'm trying to find out if someone *knows* (not believes or hopes for) the legal definition of what makes something a publication. Further discussion on the topic is largely meaningless otherwise. Basically, you and I agree. I guess I'm just bad at expressing it and/or you are failing to see it. I don't want any restrictions on the right to publish (after all, I'm in a "publish or perish mode" :-) but I also am against the contention that 1st amendment provides any immunity from fraud prosecutions, or lawsuits for libel. I'm trying to find out what 200 years of legal precedent has done to define the 1st amendment -- not argue against it! For instance, the government stipulated that Phrack was a publication, Mr. Neidorf claimed it was a publication. I claim it was publication. You agree. So does pretty much everybody else who has posted here. So why are so many people posting messages implying I'm some sort of fascist? I claim that I see a difference between a sheet run off on an irregular basis in a basement and the NY Times. I didn't claim it deserves any less protection under the 1st (nor did I claim it deserved the same -- I just said I see a difference). I then asked if there is a legally defined difference, and if there is a legal definition of exactly what consititutes a publication. I'm still waiting for a definitive answer. Personal attacks do not constitute an informed answer. :-) -- "I came here for an argument." "Oh, sorry. This is abuse. Argument is next door over." Gene Spafford
howell@bert.llnl.gov (Louis Howell) (09/07/90)
In article <11622@medusa.cs.purdue.edu>, spaf@cs.purdue.EDU (Gene Spafford) writes: |> I'm not trying to exclude anything. I'm trying to find out if someone |> *knows* (not believes or hopes for) the legal definition of what makes |> something a publication. Further discussion on the topic is largely |> meaningless otherwise. |> |> [...] |> |> I claim that I see a difference between a sheet run off on an |> irregular basis in a basement and the NY Times. I didn't claim it |> deserves any less protection under the 1st (nor did I claim it |> deserved the same -- I just said I see a difference). I then asked if |> there is a legally defined difference, and if there is a legal |> definition of exactly what consititutes a publication. I'm still |> waiting for a definitive answer. Personal attacks do not constitute |> an informed answer. :-) Why does it matter? If somehow something doesn't "qualify" as a publication, due to small print run, no subscribers, passed out free, etc., then it becomes a question of free speech rather than free press. Does it really make a difference whether I make one copy and invoke freedom of speech, or make 50 copies and invoke freedom of the press? Last time I heard, both were mentioned in the First. Who cares where we put the dividing line on what is really a continuous spectrum? I'm not saying there are no or should be no legal differences in other areas such as copyright law. This is strictly a question of freedom from government intrusion. -- Louis Howell "A few sums!" retorted Martens, with a trace of his old spirit. "A major navigational change, like the one needed to break us away from the comet and put us on an orbit to Earth, involves about a hundred thousand separate calculations. Even the computer needs several minutes for the job."
gl8f@astsun9.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) (09/08/90)
In article <11622@medusa.cs.purdue.edu> spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford) writes: >but I also am against the contention that 1st amendment provides any >immunity from fraud prosecutions, or lawsuits for libel. I haven't seen anyone say that the 1st amendment provides this immunity. Perhaps we're all on utterly different wavelengths. Let's not argue about straw men when there are plenty of interesting issues. -- "Perhaps I'm commenting a bit cynically, but I think I'm qualified to." - Dan Bernstein
emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) (09/08/90)
In article <1990Sep7.091041@bert.llnl.gov> howell@bert.llnl.gov (Louis Howell) writes: Spaf says: |> I claim that I see a difference between a sheet run off on an |> irregular basis in a basement and the NY Times. I didn't claim it |> deserves any less protection under the 1st (nor did I claim it |> deserved the same -- I just said I see a difference). I then asked if |> there is a legally defined difference, and if there is a legal |> definition of exactly what consititutes a publication. I'm still |> waiting for a definitive answer. Personal attacks do not constitute |> an informed answer. :-) Why does it matter? If somehow something doesn't "qualify" as a publication, due to small print run, no subscribers, passed out free, etc., then it becomes a question of free speech rather than free press. I'm not a lawyer, etc. Let me provide an argument by analogy. Most publications in the US have ISSN codes (International Standard Serial Number) which is assigned by the National Serials Data Program of the Library of Congress. The Sept. 1990 issue of NetMonth, a monthly publication of the BITNET Services Library, has an article on "Getting an ISSN for an Electronic Journal" which I include for you below. If a periodic is eligable for an ISSN, even if it doesn't actually apply for and get such a registration, it's a periodical just the same way the New York Times is. (Or that's what I'd argue if I had to.) --Ed Edward Vielmetti, U of Michigan math dept <emv@math.lsa.umich.edu> moderator, comp.archives Subject: [bit.listserv.govdoc-l] ISSN for electronic magazine Message-ID: <1990Aug27.230701.26931@math.lsa.umich.edu> Followup-To: bit.listserv.govdoc-l Reply-To: Discussion of Government Document Issues <GOVDOC-L@PSUVM.BITNET> References: <GOVDOC-L%90082716545575@PSUVM.BITNET> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 90 23:07:01 GMT X-Original-Newsgroups: bit.listserv.govdoc-l Archive-name: issn/27-Aug-90 Original-posting-by: BFU@NIHCU.BITNET (Roger Burns) Original-subject: ISSN for electronic magazine Reposted-by: emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) The following is excerpted from the September 1990 issue of the electronic magazine NETMONTH. - Roger Burns BFU@CU.NIH.GOV BFU@NIHCU.BITNET ==================================================================== NetMonth is a network service publication distributed free of charge to students and professionals in BITNET and other networks. This magazine and its companion file, BITNET SERVERS, are the work of the BITNET Services Library (BSL) staff and contributors from around the network. ********* * *** * Getting an ISSN for an Electronic Journal * *** * * *** * by Charles W. Bailey, Jr. *** *** * *** * University of Houston * *** * * *** * LIB3@UHUPVM1 ********* [Thanks to Ted Werntz for bringing this to my attention. - Ed.] The International Standard Serial Number (ISSN) is a unique eight-digit number that identifies a particular serial. For serials published in the U.S., ISSN numbers are assigned by the National Serials Data Program (NSDP) of the Library of Congress. Recently, NSDP assigned an ISSN to The Public-Access Computer Systems Review, an electronic journal that complements the Public-Access Computer Systems Forum (PACS-L@UHUPVM1). The PACS Forum is a moderated BITNET list that deals with all computer systems that libraries make available to their users, and it currently has over 1,100 subscribers in 25 countries. The PACS Review, which is published three times a year, deals with the same subject matter as the PACS Forum. When an issue is published, PACS Forum users are notified by a table of contents message, which describes that issue's article files and provides instructions for retrieving the files. NSDP also created a bibliographic record for the PACS Review in the OCLC Online Union Catalog, a twenty-million-record database that is widely used by libraries for cataloging, interlibrary loan, reference, and other purposes. (A more powerful, user- friendly version of the OCLC Online Union Catalog called EPIC has just been made available for fee-based searching.) A bibliographic record describes a serial (or other work) in a standard machine-readable format according to established cataloging rules. It is noteworthy and commendable that NSDP took the initiative to assign the PACS Review an ISSN number and to catalog it; I never contacted them requesting that they do so. NSDP staff learned of the PACS Review as the result of two speeches I made about the publication at a recent national library conference. The assignment of an ISSN number and the creation of a bibliographic record on OCLC makes an electronic journal more accessible to libraries and their users. Electronic publishers are fortunate that NSDP has taken a progressive, proactive stand on electronic journals, and it is treating them seriously. I would urge other electronic publishers to contact NSDP and obtain ISSN numbers for their electronic journals. The appropriate application form is contained in a brochure called "ISSN is for Serials," which is available from NSDP. For further information about getting an ISSN number contact: Library of Congress National Serials Data Program Washington, D.C. 20540 (202) 707-6452