a577@mindlink.UUCP (Curt Sampson) (10/02/90)
Does anybody know how computer crime across international boundaries is going
to be dealt with? With the current telecommunications system, it's become
obvious that you could be halfway across the world from the "scene of the
crime."
Say I break into the US Secret Service's computer and subtly alter all of their
payroll and information files (gee, I wonder where a fantasy like THAT could
come from? :-)). What could they do about it, since I'm a Canadian citizen and
reside in Canada? What if I did it from a country that has no laws at all
related to "crimes of information?"
cjs
--
Curt_Sampson@mindlink.UUCP (Vancouver, B.C., Canada)
{uunet|ubc-cs}!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!Curt_Sampson Data: (604) 687-6736
Curt_Sampson@p0.f740.n153.z1.fidonet.org Voice: (604) 687-3227jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) (10/04/90)
In article <3398@mindlink.UUCP> a577@mindlink.UUCP (Curt Sampson) writes: >Does anybody know how computer crime across international boundaries is going >to be dealt with? With the current telecommunications system, it's become >obvious that you could be halfway across the world from the "scene of the >crime." I would assume this is dealt with in extradtion (sic) treaties. The Nova special mentioned that the German crackers had to be tried in Germany. Now that I think about it, that might have been because they really didn't do too much here (proveable in court) that they could be charged with. (ie: breaking into a university computer and not damaging anything.) -- J. Eric Townsend Internet: jet@uh.edu Bitnet: jet@UHOU Systems Manager - University of Houston Dept. of Mathematics - (713) 749-2120 "It's not the bullet that kills you, it's the hole." Skate UNIX(r) -- Laurie Anderson
craig@b11.ingr.com (Craig Presson) (10/04/90)
In article <1990Oct3.230442.21336@lavaca.uh.edu>, jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) writes: |> In article <3398@mindlink.UUCP> a577@mindlink.UUCP (Curt Sampson) writes: |> >Does anybody know how computer crime across international boundaries is going |> >to be dealt with? With the current telecommunications system, it's become |> >obvious that you could be halfway across the world from the "scene of the |> >crime." |> |> I would assume this is dealt with in extradtion (sic) treaties. The |> Nova special mentioned that the German crackers had to be tried in |> Germany. Now that I think about it, that might have been because they |> really didn't do too much here (proveable in court) that they could be |> charged with. |> (ie: breaking into a university computer and not damaging anything.) |> -- |> J. Eric Townsend Internet: jet@uh.edu Bitnet: jet@UHOU |> Systems Manager - University of Houston Dept. of Mathematics - (713) 749-2120 |> "It's not the bullet that kills you, it's the hole." |> Skate UNIX(r) -- Laurie Anderson 1) The German authorities chose not to allow extradition, probably the applicability of extradition treaties to the new area of law was unclear. In general, the alleged acts have to be illegal in both countries and covered by an extradition treaty. 2) Markus Hess & co. were using a node at Mitre in Reston VA to connect to Lawrence Berkeley Lab (NOT UCB) and thence to various .mil sites. However, they sold their gleanings to the KGB in Hannover, so you could say the most serious crime was committed there. That's a bit more than "cruising" a University computer without permission AND WHO SAID DOING THAT WAS OK ANYWAY? 3) I don't think there is the same expectation of privacy on a publicly funded computer as there is on a corporation's or private individual's systems. Topic to revive on misc.legal, if someone wants. 4) The previous poster misinterpreted the reference to the need for a Virginia search warrant. The operator in Va. DID the trace but did not release the results, pending a court order valid in Va. Stoll was frustrated by this, understandably, but nothing implied he thought it was a "crime". 5) Stoll "liberated" printers and PCs on a Friday afternoon and returned them Saturday morning. After that he got more formal about his scrounging. In some organizations this would get you fired and in others it would make you a quasi-hero. In any case it was internal to LBL.
meissner@osf.org (Michael Meissner) (10/05/90)
In article <1990Oct3.230442.21336@lavaca.uh.edu> jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) writes: | Path: paperboy!snorkelwacker!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!karazm.math.uh.edu!jet | From: jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) | Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk | Date: 3 Oct 90 23:04:42 GMT | References: <3398@mindlink.UUCP> | Sender: nntppost@lavaca.uh.edu (NNTP Posting Service) | Organization: University of Houston -- Department of Mathematics | Lines: 17 | | In article <3398@mindlink.UUCP> a577@mindlink.UUCP (Curt Sampson) writes: | >Does anybody know how computer crime across international boundaries is going | >to be dealt with? With the current telecommunications system, it's become | >obvious that you could be halfway across the world from the "scene of the | >crime." | | I would assume this is dealt with in extradtion (sic) treaties. The | Nova special mentioned that the German crackers had to be tried in | Germany. Now that I think about it, that might have been because they | really didn't do too much here (proveable in court) that they could be | charged with. | (ie: breaking into a university computer and not damaging anything.) I just watched the special last night, and they said that 1) there was no current extradition for computer crimes between USA & Germany; and 2) the German laws were tougher than the USA's. -- Michael Meissner email: meissner@osf.org phone: 617-621-8861 Open Software Foundation, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA, 02142 Do apple growers tell their kids money doesn't grow on bushes?
sblair@synoptics.com (Steven Blair) (10/05/90)
>>I just watched the special last night, and they said that 1) there was >>no current extradition for computer crimes between USA & Germany; and >>2) the German laws were tougher than the USA's. That's why the crackers from Germany only got between *probation* or a 2 year sentence. And I thought that criminals got away with .................. -- -- Steven C. Blair Network Operations Center SynOptics Communications Inc. Mountain View, California INTERNET: sblair@synoptics.com sblair@excalibur.synoptics.com PROBLEMS/EMAIL: HOSTMASTER@SYNOPTICS.COM postmaster@synoptics.com ---->>RIP Stevie Ray Vaughan 1954-1990 You Will Be *Missed*<<----