eli@PWS.BULL.COM (Steve Elias) (10/04/90)
so the media has changed the meaning of the word "hacker". so what? this is VERY old news. please quit whining about it. > brnstnd@KRAMDEN.ACF.NYU.EDU(Dan Bernstein) writes: > Employers have no right to tap phone lines. There is both a technological and > a legal difference between "tapping" and simple in-house monitoring. Further, > as Stoll notes in his book, he did not have authorization for much of this > activity. Nova failed to address these distinctions. The similarities between > Stoll's behavior and the hacker(s) he was pursuing were ignored, and Nova > treated the chase uncritically. similarities between Cliff's "behavior" and the hacker's "behavior"... please cut the bullshit. the hacker dude and his friends were coke addicted dipshits selling info to the KGB. your comparison is obnoxious. recall that Hess said "some freak on the other side has tracked me down", or some such. the comparison ends there! > Many of us have been critical of Stoll's a-moral chase and contemptuous of his > irresponsible and one-sided depiction of "hackers." many of you have been coming across like a bunch of jealous twits when it comes to those who represent our community through the media, such as Cliff Stoll or Gene Spafford. in fact, i'd say it's a bit of the "Carl Sagan" syndrome, wherein many twit astro-geeks like to express their contempt of Sagan. it's immature whining, yall. word. > Judging from the Nova program, it appears that Stoll has remains mired in > the self-righteousness of his quest, and neither he nor the producers of Nova > seem to recognize the affinity he and his quarry have in common: The obsessive > games of both led to violations of privacy, ethics, and perhaps the law. oh, please. > Is it > really permissible for Stoll to "appropriate" equipment and have Nova portray > it as a semi-comedic scene? yes. it's permissible. > How could Nova so glibly pass over the > issue of privacy by making it seem a 'crime' that telecom people in one state > wouldn't give out information on a phone line because the warrant wasn't good > for that state? because if they expressed all the righteous twitlike indignation that i keep seeing in this newsgroup, their documentary would have sucked wind and everyone would think the NOVA staff was as twitlike as those who make usenet an uninhabitable realm o twits. no kidding! > A few months ago I was feeling quite badly for the tone of a review I had > written about Cuckoo's Egg. However, after seeing Nova, one wonders why Stoll > seems to have learned virtually nothing from the critiques of his work? one does not wonder why you and others are so intent on criticizing the gent. > Anybody know if he got paid for the program, and if so, how much?? mind your own business! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH ! bye. /eli
brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) (10/05/90)
In article <16409@know.pws.bull.com> eli@PWS.BULL.COM (Steve Elias) writes: > > brnstnd@KRAMDEN.ACF.NYU.EDU(Dan Bernstein) writes: [ stuff deleted ] > please cut the bullshit. I didn't write that bullshit; somebody at netsys.com did. > > Anybody know if he got paid for the program, and if so, how much?? > mind your own business! Well, that question isn't totally unreasonable. I'd guess that he received a moderate honorarium. NOVA isn't rich. ---Dan
karish@mindcrf.UUCP (Chuck Karish) (10/05/90)
In article <16409@know.pws.bull.com> eli@PWS.BULL.COM (Steve Elias) writes: >> brnstnd@KRAMDEN.ACF.NYU.EDU(Dan Bernstein) writes: >> Employers have no right to tap phone lines. There is both a technological and >> a legal difference between "tapping" and simple in-house monitoring. Further, >> as Stoll notes in his book, he did not have authorization for much of this >> activity. Nova failed to address these distinctions. The similarities between >> Stoll's behavior and the hacker(s) he was pursuing were ignored, and Nova >> treated the chase uncritically. > >similarities between Cliff's "behavior" and the hacker's "behavior"... >please cut the bullshit. the hacker dude and his friends were coke >addicted dipshits selling info to the KGB. your comparison is obnoxious. This brings to mind Gene Spafford's admonition to Mike Godwin that he stop whining about civil liberties and use his energy putting crooks in jail. The assumptions that we can always tell the good guys from the bad guys, and that anything goes when it's time to fight the baddies, are dangerous ones. They embody the same lazy cupidity that forms the intellectual basis for the 'war on drugs'. You can always tell the bad guys in the movies, partly by their hair and clothes and partly by the theme music. It's too bad we don't always have cues like those in real life. -- Chuck Karish karish@mindcraft.com Mindcraft, Inc. (415) 323-9000
len@netsys.NETSYS.COM (Len Rose) (10/05/90)
made by Steve Elias commenting on Jim Thomas' article
which commented on Nova's Cliff Stoll story:
>I didn't write that bullshit; somebody at netsys.com did.
Please.. No one at netsys wrote that.. if you will look back at the
original message, you will see that TK0JUT2@NIU.BITNET (Jim Thomas)
wrote it..It was gatewayed through here, so I suppose that is
what made you believe otherwise. I am extremely paranoid about what I
say, since my every word gets sent to the Secret Service and The US
Attorney in Baltimore. (Thanks Bellcore)
Lenbrnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) (10/06/90)
To get the attributions right once and for all, here's a list in order of the articles that led up to this one. I hope this concludes the metadiscussion. In article <69148@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> howell@grover.llnl.gov (Louis Howell) commented on the NOVA show. In article <20225:Oct319:48:5690@kramden.acf.nyu.edu> I commented on the ethical issues he brought up. In article <185@netsys.NETSYS.COM> niu.bitnet!TK0JUT2@netsys.NETSYS.COM commented on my article. In article <16409@know.pws.bull.com> eli@PWS.BULL.COM (Steve Elias) wrote: + so the media has changed the meaning of the word "hacker". + so what? this is VERY old news. please quit whining about it. + > brnstnd@KRAMDEN.ACF.NYU.EDU(Dan Bernstein) writes: + > Employers have no right to tap phone lines. [ and some more stuff that I didn't write---TK0JUT2 did ] + similarities between Cliff's "behavior" and the hacker's "behavior"... + please cut the bullshit. In article <5728:Oct421:27:4390@kramden.acf.nyu.edu> I wrote: + In article <16409@know.pws.bull.com> eli@PWS.BULL.COM (Steve Elias) writes: + > > brnstnd@KRAMDEN.ACF.NYU.EDU(Dan Bernstein) writes: + [ stuff deleted ] + > please cut the bullshit. + I didn't write that bullshit; somebody at netsys.com did. In article <186@netsys.NETSYS.COM> len@netsys.NETSYS.COM (Len Rose) wrote: + made by Steve Elias commenting on Jim Thomas' article + which commented on Nova's Cliff Stoll story: + >I didn't write that bullshit; somebody at netsys.com did. + Please.. No one at netsys wrote that.. if you will look back at the + original message, you will see that TK0JUT2@NIU.BITNET (Jim Thomas) + wrote it.. And, finally, I apologize for misattributing TK0JUT2's comments. I just glanced at the message-ID, didn't recognize it as a common mailing list concentrator, and assumed that it was accurate. Sorry. ---Dan