eli@PWS.BULL.COM (Steve Elias) (10/05/90)
> > i mis-teco'd that brnstnd@KRAMDEN.ACF.NYU.EDU(Dan Bernstein) wrote: [ ...mean stuff about suave frontier dude, Cliff Stoll... ] Dan replies, "I didn't write that bullshit; somebody at netsys.com did." yikes! sowwy about that, chief! that posting was gatewayed from bitnet. shoulda known. BIFF! not.dan>> > Anybody know if he got paid for the program, and if so, how much?? eli>> mind your own business! dan> Well, that question isn't totally unreasonable. I'd guess that he dan> received a moderate honorarium. NOVA isn't rich. as the frontier (net) goes, that question is rather mild, i suppose. From: len@netsys.NETSYS.COM (Len Rose) Organization: Netsys Inc., Philadelphia len> made by Steve Elias commenting on Jim Thomas' article len> which commented on Nova's Cliff Stoll story: >I didn't write that bullshit; somebody at netsys.com did. yo! i didn't write "i didn't write that bullshit..." !!! :) we've got a meta-misquote, here. don't tell me you're using teco, too, Len !?!?!? (you can't take the teco out of emacs.) now, on to some comments from Chuck Karish, frontier wrangler... eli> please cut the bullshit. the hacker dude and his friends were coke eli> addicted dipshits selling info to the KGB. your comparison is obnoxious. chuck> This brings to mind Gene Spafford's admonition to Mike Godwin that he chuck> stop whining about civil liberties and use his energy putting crooks in chuck> jail. The assumptions that we can always tell the good guys from the chuck> bad guys, and that anything goes when it's time to fight the baddies, chuck> are dangerous ones. They embody the same lazy cupidity that forms the chuck> intellectual basis for the 'war on drugs'. is that really what Gene said, or is that how your mindcraft read it? civil liberties, indeed! the implication that Cliff violated peoples' civil liberties is again obnoxious to me, wrangler. is Cliff's absconding with printers maneuver "anything goes" ??? is tracing an absurdly hidden phone call "anything goes" ??? let's get a little perspective here, eh cowpoke? if you want an example here of "anything goes" fighting the baddies, don't look to the War on Civil Rights for its plethora of examples. instead, think of the "anything goes" people who torched Hagbard. chuck> You can always tell the bad guys in the movies, partly by their chuck >hair and clothes and partly by the theme music. It's too bad we chuck> don't always have cues like those in real life. if the NOVA show didn't show you enough of Cliff for you to figure out whether he's a "good guy" or a "bad guy", then perhaps the show wasn't done that well after all. peace. /eli
brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) (10/06/90)
In article <16426@know.pws.bull.com> eli@PWS.BULL.COM (Steve Elias) writes: > > > i mis-teco'd that brnstnd@KRAMDEN.ACF.NYU.EDU(Dan Bernstein) wrote: > [ ...mean stuff about suave frontier dude, Cliff Stoll... ] > Dan replies, "I didn't write that bullshit; somebody at netsys.com did." > yikes! sowwy about that, chief! I was only repeating your use of the word ``bullshit''. Apology accepted. [grin] I think I've correctly attributed everybody's comments in a separate article. > instead, think of the "anything goes" people who torched Hagbard. Do we really know who torched Hagbard? I guessed from the book that he had killed himself. ---Dan
karish@mindcrf.UUCP (Chuck Karish) (10/06/90)
In article <16426@know.pws.bull.com> eli@PWS.BULL.COM (Steve Elias) writes: >eli> please cut the bullshit. the hacker dude and his friends were coke >eli> addicted dipshits selling info to the KGB. your comparison is obnoxious. > >chuck> This brings to mind Gene Spafford's admonition to Mike Godwin that he >chuck> stop whining about civil liberties and use his energy putting crooks in >chuck> jail. The assumptions that we can always tell the good guys from the >chuck> bad guys, and that anything goes when it's time to fight the baddies, >chuck> are dangerous ones. They embody the same lazy cupidity that forms the >chuck> intellectual basis for the 'war on drugs'. > >is that really what Gene said, or is that how your mindcraft read it? Message-ID: <11502@medusa.cs.purdue.edu> Along with the vigorous protestations about rights, I think it would be much more constructive to think up ways to stop cracking/hacking and help catch the transgressors than it would be to continue to publicly slam people who don't necessarily agree with you. >civil liberties, indeed! the implication that Cliff violated >peoples' civil liberties is again obnoxious to me, wrangler. This is more `us against them' thinking. I agree that Stoll is a Good Guy, and that his detective work was justified and commendable. The work, and his book, pointed out some real dangers to our society. Whether or not the intrusive actions in this case were justified, it's troublesome that they were (according to people who saw the show, which I didn't) presented uncritically. I thought this discussion was about the issues that should have been developed; I don't see any need to discuss Cliff Stoll's character. >chuck> You can always tell the bad guys in the movies [ ... ] > >if the NOVA show didn't show you enough of Cliff for you to figure >out whether he's a "good guy" or a "bad guy", then perhaps the show >wasn't done that well after all. That he was presented as a hero doesn't make all his actions proper models for other situations. NOVA could have pointed this out. -- Chuck Karish karish@mindcraft.com Mindcraft, Inc. (415) 323-9000