[comp.org.eff.talk] Smear Campaign

len@netsys.NETSYS.COM (Len Rose) (10/10/90)

Here is an article posted in comp.sources.wanted/alt.sources.d

I cannot defend myself very well against this since it has been 
sent to every site in the world. If I had done something like this,
perhaps the charges I am facing would be different. All I can say is 
that I can account for anything I ever sold to anyone.

# BEGINNING OF ARTICLE
>Path: lsicom2!uunet!snorkelwacker!usc!cs.utexas.edu!execu!sequoia!rpp386!jfh
>From: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
>Newsgroups: comp.sources.wanted,alt.sources.d
>Subject: Re: System V uptime
>Message-ID: <18577@rpp386.cactus.org>
>Date: 9 Oct 90 04:09:20 GMT
>References: <195@netsys.NETSYS.COM>
>Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
>Followup-To: alt.sources.d,comp.sources.wanted
>Organization: Lone Star Cafe and BBS Service
>Lines: 29
>Xref: lsicom2 comp.sources.wanted:1152 alt.sources.d:327
>X-Clever-Slogan: Recycle or Die.

In article <195@netsys.NETSYS.COM> len@netsys.NETSYS.COM (Len Rose) writes:
>Hi.. I used to have this source, but now it's temporarily
>unavailable.. (It went with the rest of my software and equipment)
>
>If someone can lend a hand and send me a copy, I'd appreciate it.
>Or, perhaps a pointer to an ftp site.

just as a note, this is the same len rose that sold stolen
computer equipment to a number of close personal friends of
mine.  there has never been any doubt in their minds that
len was well aware of the stolen-ness of the equipment which
he was selling them.

perhaps we could have mr. rose detail the circumstances
surrounding his arrest, including the reasons and evidence
which the government has.  giving aid or comfort to mr. rose
would be akin to giving benedict arnold a congressional
medal of honor.

it is also worth noting that a number of people involved
in operation sun devil have had some direct or indirect
dealings with mr. rose.  giving him source code would be
like giving the government an excuse to search and sieze
your computer.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                             UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 832-8832                           Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
"SCCS, the source motel!  Programs check in and never check out!"
		-- Ken Thompson


# END OF ARTICLE

jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. DeArmond) (10/11/90)

len@netsys.NETSYS.COM (Len Rose) writes:

>Here is an article posted in comp.sources.wanted/alt.sources.d

>I cannot defend myself very well against this since it has been 
>sent to every site in the world. If I had done something like this,
>perhaps the charges I am facing would be different. All I can say is 
>that I can account for anything I ever sold to anyone.

[article by John Haugh deleted]


So why don't you start accounting, Len?  I don't know about the rest of
this group but of late I've begun to think that maybe the government
might just have a good case against you.  And I'm pretty sure that
John Haugh is a straight shooter.

You know, when your case first was made public, I felt a combination of 
outrage and pity.  Outrage at the government and pity for you.  As you've
reappeared on this net and continued to post, my feelings have evolved
first to a mix of outrage toward the government and "What a niave idiot"
toward you.  If I were a government prosecutor, I'd be leaping with glee
at your postings here.  And then you come on the net and ask for source
that appears to me to be a request for proprietary materials.

Now I'm not so sure I'm outraged so much at the government and I'm
beginning to think that maybe you are getting what you deserve.   I'm
beginning to think that you're one of those fellows who makes it possible
for the government to make horrible case law that then screws us all. 
And if you keep running your mouth here, the government can just let you
present its case for them.  I have a very good hunch that if your case
was only what you represent it to be, the EFF would be there helping and
the government would be backing out after its previous embarrisment. 
Unless they've done something they've not announced, I've not seen it. 

So you might do yourself some good by answering John's charges.  After
you clear it with your lawyer (you have learned that lession, I hope.).
I really hope you are telling it straight, not because I particularly 
care what happens to you but because I'm scared shitless of what 
our government is going to be able to do with this case.  You've tickled
the tail of the dragon and it bit back.  The problem is, the bite is going
to get us all.  Thanks a lot.

John


-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC  | We can no more blame our loss of freedom on congress
Radiation Systems, Inc. | than we can prostitution on pimps.  Both simply
Atlanta, Ga             | provide broker services for their customers.
{emory,uunet}!rsiatl!jgd|  - Dr. W Williams |                **I am the NRA**  

gl8f@astsun9.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) (10/11/90)

In article <4249@rsiatl.UUCP> jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. DeArmond) writes:

>So why don't you start accounting, Len?

Len is innocent until proven guilty.

Haugh accused Len of something that the government hasn't even charged
him with. Until he's convicted, it's merely an accusation.

>Now I'm not so sure I'm outraged so much at the government and I'm
>beginning to think that maybe you are getting what you deserve.

It's a damn shame to watch a witch-hunt in action.

--
"Restraint, hell. I'm just too fucking busy." -- Bill Wisner

larry@belch.Berkeley.EDU (Larry Foard) (10/11/90)

In article <4249@rsiatl.UUCP> jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. DeArmond) writes:
>
[stuff deleted]
>
>Now I'm not so sure I'm outraged so much at the government and I'm
>beginning to think that maybe you are getting what you deserve.   I'm
>beginning to think that you're one of those fellows who makes it possible
>for the government to make horrible case law that then screws us all. 
>And if you keep running your mouth here, the government can just let you
>present its case for them.  I have a very good hunch that if your case
>was only what you represent it to be, the EFF would be there helping and
>the government would be backing out after its previous embarrisment. 
>Unless they've done something they've not announced, I've not seen it. 
>
[more stuff deleted]

I haven't seen anything to indicate Len Rose has done anything wrong
other forgetting to take the 5th. The burden of proof lies with you and
Len Rose's other accusers, I see no reason why you should demand that
he prove he is innocent when no shred of evidence has been provided that
he has infact sold stolen equipment. 

shore@mtxinu.COM (Melinda Shore) (10/12/90)

In article <1990Oct11.041949.12168@agate.berkeley.edu> larry@belch.Berkeley.EDU (Larry Foard) writes:
>I haven't seen anything to indicate Len Rose has done anything wrong
>other forgetting to take the 5th. The burden of proof lies with you and
>Len Rose's other accusers, I see no reason why you should demand that
>he prove he is innocent when no shred of evidence has been provided that
>he has infact sold stolen equipment. 

Indeed - those who include comments about freedom in their .signature
files ought to make sure that their own actions are in support of it.
However, as long as we're in smear mode it's probably worth mentioning
that Len Rose has a Jewish name, John G. DeArmond has repeatedly made
outrageously racist and anti-Semitic comments on the net, and his
opinions are informed by that racism and are therefore completely
worthless.
-- 
Melinda Shore                                 shore@mtxinu.com
mt Xinu                              ..!uunet!mtxinu.com!shore