jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) (11/01/90)
I have here a list of 214 individuals on USENET who are admitted system crackers, phone phreaks and computer criminals. I can't say who these people are, or who told me who these people are, but I can say that I'm going to give this list to a government agency for their perusal. If you come forth now, and *admit publicly* the fact that you are a computer criminal I will not report your name to the authorities. If, however, I hand in your name, you will probably be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Look at those who were unwise enough to resist the SS and FBI during Operation Sun Devil. Do you want this to happen to you? Or your family? Or your employer? I didn't think so. Admit your guilt now, or suffer the long term consequences. Oh, and have a nice day. :-) -- J. Eric Townsend Internet: jet@uh.edu Bitnet: jet@UHOU Systems Manager - University of Houston Dept. of Mathematics - (713) 749-2120 EastEnders list: eastender@karazm.math.uh.edu Skate UNIX(r)
ggw%wolves@cs.duke.edu (Gregory G. Woodbury) (11/01/90)
In <1990Oct31.210211.7436@lavaca.uh.edu> jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) writes: > > >I have here a list of 214 individuals on USENET who are admitted system >crackers, phone phreaks and computer criminals. I can't say who >these people are, or who told me who these people are, but I can say >that I'm going to give this list to a government agency for their >perusal. > >If you come forth now, and *admit publicly* the fact that you are a >computer criminal I will not report your name to the authorities. >If, however, I hand in your name, you will probably be prosecuted to >the fullest extent of the law. > >Look at those who were unwise enough to resist the SS and FBI during >Operation Sun Devil. Do you want this to happen to you? Or your >family? Or your employer? I didn't think so. > >Admit your guilt now, or suffer the long term consequences. > >Oh, and have a nice day. :-) Eric... If this is your idea of a joke, go crawl in bed with Joe Abernathy of that area of the country. If this is even halfway serious, triple the punishment. -- Gregory G. Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!ggw ...mcnc!wolves!ggw [use the maps!] Domain: ggw@cds.duke.edu ggw%wolves@mcnc.mcnc.org [The line eater is a boojum snark! ] <standard disclaimers apply>
mbrown@tonic.osf.org (Mark Brown) (11/01/90)
ggw%wolves@cs.duke.edu (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: |> In <1990Oct31.210211.7436@lavaca.uh.edu> |> jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) writes: |> >I have here a list of 214 individuals on USENET who are admitted system |> |> Eric... |> |> If this is your idea of a joke, go crawl in bed with Joe |> Abernathy of that area of the country. |> |> If this is even halfway serious, triple the punishment. Some folks just have *no* sense of humor, or even irony. Sheesh. Mark Brown IBM AWD / OSF | I feel a hot wind, on my shoulder, The Good mbrown@osf.org | I dial it in from south-of-the-border The Bad uunet!osf!mbrown| I hear the talking, of the dj, The Ugly (617) 621-8981 | can't understand *just what does he say?*
emcguire@ccad.uiowa.edu (Ed McGuire) (11/02/90)
In article <15685@paperboy.OSF.ORG> mbrown@tonic.osf.org (Mark Brown) writes: > ggw%wolves@cs.duke.edu (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: > |> In <1990Oct31.210211.7436@lavaca.uh.edu> > |> jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) writes: > |> >I have here a list of 214 individuals on USENET who are admitted system > |> If this is your idea of a joke, go crawl in bed with Joe > |> Abernathy of that area of the country. > |> If this is even halfway serious, triple the punishment. > > Some folks just have *no* sense of humor, or even irony. Or history, for that matter. -- peace. -- Ed "Just under half the DEC vice presidents who report to Senior VP Jack Smith are named Bill." -- Digital Review/October 22, 1990
dawnt@tree.uucp (Jon Cline (1-1-90)) (11/02/90)
In article <1990Oct31.210211.7436@lavaca.uh.edu>, jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) writes: > > I have here a list of 214 individuals on USENET who are admitted system > crackers, phone phreaks and computer criminals. I can't say who > these people are, or who told me who these people are, but I can say > that I'm going to give this list to a government agency for their > perusal. I wouldn't advise it, even if you're trying to be a nice guy. Its been proven *over* and *over* that the gubment, as it were, twists the facts into whatever form suits its own needs. You yourself will probably become a suspect in something or other just by giving them the information. > > If you come forth now, and *admit publicly* the fact that you are a > computer criminal I will not report your name to the authorities. > If, however, I hand in your name, you will probably be prosecuted to > the fullest extent of the law. OOoh, sounds like J.Eric is tired of scaring little kids, and now he's moving up to scaring computer geeks. What makes you think the last part is true? Fullest extent of the law means nothing -- and you should realize that. > > Look at those who were unwise enough to resist the SS and FBI during > Operation Sun Devil. Do you want this to happen to you? Or your > family? Or your employer? I didn't think so. > > Admit your guilt now, or suffer the long term consequences. > > Oh, and have a nice day. :-) I'm not real sure what this is supposed to be, but if you're trying to be funny, it's not working. This is one for Geraldo. > -- > J. Eric Townsend Internet: jet@uh.edu Bitnet: jet@UHOU > Systems Manager - University of Houston Dept. of Mathematics - (713) 749-2120 > EastEnders list: eastender@karazm.math.uh.edu > Skate UNIX(r) -- ...ucbvax!ucdavis!csusac!tree!dawnt "It's hard to believe that the entire fate of the world lies in the hands of the telephone company."
ggw%wolves@cs.duke.edu (Gregory G. Woodbury) (11/04/90)
Scorecard: JET J. Eric Townsend @ karazm.math.uh.edu GGW Greg Woodbury (me) %wolves@cs.duke.edu MB Mark Brown @ tonic.osf.org EM Ed McGuire @ ccad.uiowa.edu JET: >I have here a list of 214 individuals on USENET who are admitted system GGW: If this is your idea of a joke, go crawl in bed with Joe GGW: Abernathy of that area of the country. GGW: If this is even halfway serious, triple the punishment. MB: Some folks just have *no* sense of humor, or even irony. EM: Or history, for that matter. Commentary by GGW: I caught quite quickly the stylistic references to Senator McCarthy (and his young lawyer assistant Richard Nixon!) and JET's neat satire. In a different context (or even in a different mood) I would think it quite hilarious, since I am no great respecter of conventions myself. The historical reference is PRECISELY why I did not find this particularly funny or amusing. A lot of people I respect and admire were hurt and almost destroyed by McCarthyism; a fair number of people I know and admire have been injured and almost destroyed by modern equivalents. Whether it is the Secret Service raiding SJG, harrasing Len Rose; or if it is AT&T working with various agencies in Operation SunDevil; or whether it is Jesse Helms and his ilk attempting to impose their narrowminded views on the rest of us, I will object and complain. JETs article is fine satire, but it strikes a particulary raw nerve and prompted a very pointed flame. I will appologize for the roughness of the response, but to me the original was in very bad taste. I also am quite sure that JET finds being classed with Joe Abernathy just as distasteful, and that I also apologize for. (Even after 10 minutes of cooling off, I want to send this. I can see that several people besides me were offended in some manner by JETs comments. Humor, by its nature, is basicly offensive, in this case, and with this person, it just rubs me wrong.) -- Gregory G. Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!ggw ...mcnc!wolves!ggw [use the maps!] Domain: ggw@cds.duke.edu ggw%wolves@mcnc.mcnc.org [The line eater is a boojum snark! ] <standard disclaimers apply>
mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) (11/05/90)
In article <1990Nov4.035527.20292@wolves.uucp> ggw%wolves@cs.duke.edu (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: > > I caught quite quickly the stylistic references to Senator >McCarthy (and his young lawyer assistant Richard Nixon!) and >JET's neat satire. The "young lawyer assistant" you are thinking of is probably Roy Cohn. Nixon, though a lawyer, was elected to the House in 1946 and elected to the U.S. Senate in 1950. He was chosen as Eisenhower's running mate in 1952. --Mike -- Mike Godwin, (617) 864-0665 |"If the doors of perception were cleansed mnemonic@well.sf.ca.us | every thing would appear to man as it is, Electronic Frontier | infinite." Foundation | --Blake
wayner@fulla.cs.cornell.edu (Peter Wayner) (11/05/90)
mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes: >In article <1990Nov4.035527.20292@wolves.uucp> ggw%wolves@cs.duke.edu (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: >> >> I caught quite quickly the stylistic references to Senator >>McCarthy (and his young lawyer assistant Richard Nixon!) and >>JET's neat satire. >The "young lawyer assistant" you are thinking of is probably Roy >Cohn. Nixon, though a lawyer, was elected to the House in >1946 and elected to the U.S. Senate in 1950. He was chosen as >Eisenhower's running mate in 1952. And if I remember right, Bobby Kennedy was turned down for the job and spent a few anxious hours wondering why he was passed over. History is very kind to some people. >--Mike >-- >Mike Godwin, (617) 864-0665 |"If the doors of perception were cleansed >mnemonic@well.sf.ca.us | every thing would appear to man as it is, >Electronic Frontier | infinite." >Foundation | --Blake Peter Wayner Department of Computer Science Cornell Univ. Ithaca, NY 14850 EMail:wayner@cs.cornell.edu Office: 607-255-9202 or 255-1008 Home: 116 Oak Ave, Ithaca, NY 14850 Phone: 607-277-6678
mvp@hsv3.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) (11/07/90)
In article <1990Nov2.040135.5052@tree.uucp> dawnt@tree.uucp (Jon Cline (1-1-90)) writes: >In article <1990Oct31.210211.7436@lavaca.uh.edu>, jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) writes: (An obviously satiric article parodying Tail-Gunner Joe McCarthy) >I'm not real sure what this is supposed to be, but if you're trying to >be funny, it's not working. Is the percentage of net.abusers who know anything about the history of this century really as low as it would seem from the responses to J. Eric Townsend's message? Dave "The average American high-school graduate cannot find the Pacific Ocean on a globe" Barry would have a field day with this one. -- Mike Van Pelt "Something is happening here, Headland Technology/Video 7 What it is ain't exactly clear..." ...ames!vsi1!v7fs1!mvp -- Pons & Fleischmann
jef@well.sf.ca.us (Jef Poskanzer) (11/08/90)
In the referenced message, mvp@hsv3.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) wrote: }Is the percentage of net.abusers who know anything about the history }of this century really as low as it would seem from the responses to }J. Eric Townsend's message? Nah, it's just the usual high correlation between idiots and loudmouths. The email you get in response to a posting is a much more accurate indication of the state of the net. --- Jef Jef Poskanzer jef@well.sf.ca.us {ucbvax, apple, hplabs}!well!jef A boy has never wept nor dashed a thousand kim.
6500gsv@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (George S. Vaughan) (11/09/90)
In article <1990Nov4.035527.20292@wolves.uucp> ggw%wolves@cs.duke.edu (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: > Scorecard: > JET J. Eric Townsend @ karazm.math.uh.edu > JET: >I have here a list of 214 individuals on USENET who are admitted system Sorry, friends, but I would imagine that a majority of the university (student) folk who read the net didn't catch the McCarthy reference because they weren't born when McCarthy was important in the national political arena. Mayhaps it's not a bad idea to hear this sort of things to insure that it doesn't happen again. George S. Vaughan George S. Vaughan 6500gsv@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu Repeal The 16th Amendment! -- George S. Vaughan 6500gsv@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu Repeal The 16th Amendment!
campbell@redsox.bsw.com (Larry Campbell) (11/12/90)
In article <7046@hub.ucsb.edu> 6500gsv@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu writes:
-
-Sorry, friends, but I would imagine that a majority of the university
-(student) folk who read the net didn't catch the McCarthy reference
-because they weren't born when McCarthy was important in the national
-political arena. ...
So I guess we shouldn't expect students to be familiar with any important
events that occurred before they were born...
--
Larry Campbell The Boston Software Works, Inc.
campbell@redsox.bsw.com 120 Fulton Street
wjh12!redsox!campbell Boston, MA 02109wayner@kama.cs.cornell.edu (Peter Wayner) (11/12/90)
campbell@redsox.bsw.com (Larry Campbell) writes: >In article <7046@hub.ucsb.edu> 6500gsv@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu writes: >- >-Sorry, friends, but I would imagine that a majority of the university >-(student) folk who read the net didn't catch the McCarthy reference >-because they weren't born when McCarthy was important in the national >-political arena. ... >So I guess we shouldn't expect students to be familiar with any important >events that occurred before they were born... >-- >Larry Campbell The Boston Software Works, Inc. >campbell@redsox.bsw.com 120 Fulton Street >wjh12!redsox!campbell Boston, MA 02109 McCarthy? Someone just told me he was in a band before WINGS? Is this true? Was it very political? -Peter Peter Wayner Department of Computer Science Cornell Univ. Ithaca, NY 14850 EMail:wayner@cs.cornell.edu Office: 607-255-9202 or 255-1008 Home: 116 Oak Ave, Ithaca, NY 14850 Phone: 607-277-6678
md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Donald Drown) (11/13/90)
We don't have a good news reader here, so I have to type this manually... Larry Campbell said in one of his previous posts, very sarcastically, that we shouldn't bother posting about things that happens before certain people were born. No, I will answer your rhetoric question. The whole idea was that many of the students here don't remember quotes such as those. I learned about McCarthy from my parents, I think in school he was mentioned once, and nothing of his "infamous" speech was given. Sure I know stuff that happened then, But I don't know exact things. I don't know were I was when certain people where shot. I do know were I was when the space shuttle blew up. You can't expect such a diverse audience, here on the net, to all know a speech that was given before most of us were born. It is not stressed in school, like "four score and seven years ago..." Nor should it be, the general idea behind McCarthy's idiotic behavior should be looked at. Please don't believe yourself a better individual because you have years on people, and I won't do the same because I think I am younger. -Matt
archer@elysium.esd.sgi.com (Doctor Benway) (11/14/90)
In <sbDnI8u00WB6A6hdQy@andrew.cmu.edu> md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Donald Drown) writes:
*
*You can't expect such a diverse audience, here on the net, to all know a
*speech that was given before most of us were born. It is not stressed in
*school, like "four score and seven years ago..." Nor should it be, the
*general idea behind McCarthy's idiotic behavior should be looked at.
*
The only excuse for not recognizing that speach is poor education.
--
When artistic pretension is combined with abject | Archer Sully
poverty the results are often VERY STUPID. |
-- Crosley Bendix | archer@sgi.comjxxl@huxley.cs.nps.navy.mil (John Locke) (11/14/90)
In article <> md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Donald Drown) writes:
% You can't expect such a diverse audience, here on the net, to all know a
% speech that was given before most of us were born. It is not stressed in
% school, like "four score and seven years ago..." Nor should it be, the
% general idea behind McCarthy's idiotic behavior should be looked at.
...Which only goes to show that satire is still dangerous, thank God.
-md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Donald Drown) (11/14/90)
>archer@elysium.esd.sgi.com (Doctor Benway) writes: >In <sbDnI8u00WB6A6hdQy@andrew.cmu.edu> >md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Donald Drown) writes: >* >*You can't expect such a diverse audience, here on the net, to all know a >*speech that was given before most of us were born. It is not stressed in >*school, like "four score and seven years ago..." Nor should it be, the >*general idea behind McCarthy's idiotic behavior should be looked at. >* > >The only excuse for not recognizing that speach is poor education. So now we have gotten down to insulting the intelligence of fellow netters. I have a poor education, or was taught badly, because I don't know about the patterns (or the exact) speech. This is bullshit. Why should teachers stress the learning of speeches. Memorizing speeches ranks in there with some of most worthless learning I have done in my years. I would much rater learn about what McCarthy did, and then I would know more about that. In that learning someone would have read that speach to me, or I would have read it myself. It would not have stuck in my head. Can you recognize speeches given by Carter when the hostages came back? No, I can't. Nor should I care if I can't. I should know what was going on then, and understand other things about that time period, but what the president said when the hostages stepped off the plane is worthless information for people who play trivial pursuit for cash. -Matt (md3b@andrew.cmu.edu) "Hear the crashing steel, feel the stearing wheel."
curt@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Curt Sampson) (11/14/90)
archer@elysium.esd.sgi.com (Doctor Benway) writes: > The only excuse for not recognizing that speach [sic] is poor education. Perhaps you'd better go back and get a "good" education. After you learn to spell "speech" you can try "ethnocentric." cjs curt@cynic.UUCP | "The unconscious self is the real genius. curt@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca | Your breathing goes wrong the minute your {uunet|ubc-cs}!van-bc!cynic!curt | conscious self meddles with it." --GBS
pjmp@gec-rl-hrc.co.uk (Peter J M Polkinghorne) (11/15/90)
In article <1990Nov13.181742.10791@odin.corp.sgi.com> archer@elysium.esd.sgi.com (Doctor Benway) writes: >*You can't expect such a diverse audience, here on the net, to all know a >*speech that was given before most of us were born. It is not stressed in >*school, like "four score and seven years ago..." Nor should it be, the >*general idea behind McCarthy's idiotic behavior should be looked at. > >The only excuse for not recognizing that speach is poor education. ^^^^^^ -------------- Well some people reading the news do not live in the USA and hence are not intimately familiar with ALL your history. Peter
jxxl@huxley.cs.nps.navy.mil (John Locke) (11/16/90)
In article <> md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Donald Drown) writes: > You can't expect such a diverse audience, here on the net, to all know a > speech that was given before most of us were born. You have said enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency? Little did I dream you could be so reckless and so cruel as to do an injury to Eric, the lad that wrote the original posting in this thread. I regret to say he shall always bear a scar needlessly inflicted by you. If it were in my power to forgive you for your reckless cruelty, I would do so. I like to think I am a gentleman, but your forgiveness will have to come from someone other than me.
king@motcid.UUCP (Steven King) (11/16/90)
In article <1990Nov13.181742.10791@odin.corp.sgi.com> archer@elysium.esd.sgi.com (Doctor Benway) writes: >The only excuse for not recognizing that speach is poor education. Vociferous disagreement! I was born in '66 and I consider myself reasonably well educated. I'm familiar with events of the McCarthy era but I don't make it my hobby. I've never encountered the text of that speech, just the commentary on it (ie., discussions to the effect that McCarthy had made such a claim). On the other hand, I didn't go off the handle and let Eric have it with both barrels either. The posting was absurd (as I'm sure McCarthy's original was thought to be by many who heard it) and I've seen from his previous postings that Eric is usually a level-headed sort of guy. I assumed it was either a satire of something I wasn't familiar with (I should have made the McCarthy connection here) or a forgery. Please keep in mind that what is an obvious reference to some people isn't nearly so obvious to others. There's no reason to insult someone's education because they aren't familiar with a particular speech. -- ---------------------------------------------------+--------------------------- If all you do in life are important things, then | Steven King you'll never have any fun -- unless having fun | Motorola Cellular is an important thing to you. | ...uunet!motcid!king
kidd@halley.UUCP (Dave Kidd) (11/16/90)
In <sbDnI8u00WB6A6hdQy@andrew.cmu.edu> md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Donald Drown) writes: * *You can't expect such a diverse audience, here on the net, to all know a *speech that was given before most of us were born. It is not stressed in In article <1990Nov13.181742.10791@odin.corp.sgi.com> archer@elysium.esd.sgi.com (Doctor Benway) writes: >The only excuse for not recognizing that speach is poor education. It's certainly no sign of a poor (Canadian) education that I don't recognize that speech! It was given by a local politician, of purely national interest, to the population of a foreign country before I was born. And it was neither memorable nor important. So as long as we're trading value judgements, there's mine! Now, about that electronic frontier, which is going to TRANSCEND national boundaries, and must somehow help us bridge the fact that our backgrounds and contexts are NOT common, though our aspirations and daily problems may be ... -- David N. Kidd, Tandem Computers, Austin TX halley!kidd@cs.utexas.edu (512) 244-8820
mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) (11/16/90)
In article <5305@orchid3.UUCP> king@motcid.UUCP (Steven King) writes: > >Please keep in mind that what is an obvious reference to some people isn't >nearly so obvious to others. There's no reason to insult someone's education >because they aren't familiar with a particular speech. Just for the record: I was born in 1956, after the speech was made. I wasn't familiar with the "particular" speech, but I knew that McCarthy had purported to have lists of Communists in the State Department, and I recognized Eric's reference when he made it. I don't think anyone's being criticized for not recalling the words of a particular speech. Instead, the issue seems to be whether folks recall some of the particulars of an important event in history. Me, I'm astonished that everyone didn't recognize Eric's reference, but some people I respect didn't, so I can't say I can condemn anyone for not recognizing it. --Mike -- Mike Godwin, (617) 864-0665 |"If the doors of perception were cleansed mnemonic@well.sf.ca.us | every thing would appear to man as it is, Electronic Frontier | infinite." Foundation | --Blake
craig@com50.c2s.mn.org (Craig Wilson) (11/16/90)
In article <sbDnI8u00WB6A6hdQy@andrew.cmu.edu> md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Donald Drown) writes: >You can't expect such a diverse audience, here on the net, to all know a >speech that was given before most of us were born. It is not stressed in >school, like "four score and seven years ago..." Nor should it be, the >general idea behind McCarthy's idiotic behavior should be looked at. >-Matt As Geena Davis said in _The Fly_: "Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid." The reason why McCarthy should be studied is that he did a great deal to remove the freedom and liberties from a number of Americans. He started the ignition on a steamroller that was very difficult to stop. The reason his words should be studied is because that is how he did it. Hard and fast evidence against many of the accused did not exist. They were prosecuted based upon lies, hearsay, and innuendo. Very similar to the lies, hearsay, and innuendo that is so prevalent in the political campaigns in the United States today. Americans need to learn how to listen to our leaders and try to cut through the bullshit to the truth. This is not easy. /craig
jxxl@huxley.cs.nps.navy.mil (John Locke) (11/17/90)
In article <> craig@com50.c2s.mn.org (Craig Wilson) writes: > The reason McCarthy should be studied is that he did a great deal to remove > the freedom and liberties from a number of Americans. He started the ignition > on a steamroller that was very difficult to stop. Agreed that he should be studied, but the mess was started by others, e.g. the first Hollywood tribunal by the HUAC in 1947. But McCarthy and the HUAC are merely the best remembered of the inquisition because they sought the most publicity. The real work was done through a number of legislative acts in the forties which canonized vague offenses such as "sedition" and "disloyalty." McCarthy accomplished nothing tangible himself--uncovered no subversion, signed no legislation. Not only did he not know of any communists, he probably couldn't have provided a reasonable definition of the word. He was a political opportunist first and last. He tooted the whistle of a steam- roller that was already up to speed. Ultimately, it's not the loudmouth McCarthy's that do the most damage--it's the quiet bureaucrats who tighten the screws ever so slightly with subtle contributions of regulation and law that alter the rules under which we live. > The reason his words should be studied is because that is how he did it. > Hard and fast evidence against many of the accused did not exist. They > were prosecuted based upon lies, hearsay, and innuendo. Very similar to the > lies, hearsay, and innuendo that is so prevalent in the political campaigns in > the United States today. Americans need to learn how to listen to our leaders > and try to cut through the bullshit to the truth. This is not easy. Let's not forget Tricky Dick. He was an accomplished "anti-communist" before McCarthy had even gotten his toes wet. If American politics failed in allowing these two scoundrels to run loose in the land, then at least American politics redeemed itself to the extent that the two were eventually disgraced.
craig@com50.c2s.mn.org (Craig Wilson) (11/18/90)
In article <EbEAAUu00Vp1ATvlBL@andrew.cmu.edu> md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Donald Drown) writes: >>archer@elysium.esd.sgi.com (Doctor Benway) writes: > Can you recognize speeches given by Carter when the hostages came >back? No, I can't. Nor should I care if I can't. I should know what >was going on then, and understand other things about that time period, >but what the president said when the hostages stepped off the plane is >worthless information for people who play trivial pursuit for cash. >-Matt >(md3b@andrew.cmu.edu) If you mean President Carter when you refer to the president in the statement above, I think that you should know that Carter was not President of The United States at the time the hostages from the U.S. Embassy in Iran stepped off the plane. /craig
curt@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Curt Sampson) (11/18/90)
mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes: > Me, I'm astonished that everyone didn't recognize Eric's reference, > but some people I respect didn't, so I can't say I can condemn anyone > for not recognizing it. Well, I didn't recognise the reference, though I did see the possibility that it might be a joke. I think a lot of people on the net still don't quite realise that this is an *international* network. Ethnocentricism seems to be a perennial problem in the United States. U.S. history is not any more important or well known (except to those of you who live there, of course) than any other country. There are many thousands of people who read this stuff every day to whom the U.S. is just another country, not anything special. I'm not surprised that most, if not all, of you who live in the U.S. and are reading this don't know about the FLQ. Why should you be surprised that I don't know details about McCarthy's speeches? (Of course, now that I know about it, it is a rather entertaining joke. This whole topic was quite timely as well, since it happened just before I saw *The Manchurian Candidate*. :-)) cjs curt@cynic.UUCP | "The unconscious self is the real genius. curt@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca | Your breathing goes wrong the minute your {uunet|ubc-cs}!van-bc!cynic!curt | conscious self meddles with it." --GBS
floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson) (11/18/90)
In article <9Ryss4w163w@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca> curt@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Curt Sampson) writes: >mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes: > >> Me, I'm astonished that everyone didn't recognize Eric's reference, >> but some people I respect didn't, so I can't say I can condemn anyone >> for not recognizing it. > >Well, I didn't recognise the reference, though I did see the >possibility that it might be a joke. I didn't recognize the reference. I did get the point, and it was hilarious. It has become even more so because of this silly debate on that one reference. The argument about education, history, national vs. international etc. is all a smoke screen. The point had to do with your basic understanding of *justice*. If you missed it, you were 1) asleep (acceptable) or 2) need a better understanding of what justice is or is not. (Ok, you could be so straight laced that satire misses you.) IMHO. Floyd -- Floyd L. Davidson floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu floydd@chinet.chi.il.us Salcha, AK 99714 connected by paycheck to Alascom, Inc. When *I* speak for them, one of us will be *out* of business in a hurry.
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) (11/18/90)
In article <9Ryss4w163w@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca> curt@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Curt Sampson) writes: >I'm not surprised that most, if not all, of you who live in the U.S. >and are reading this don't know about the FLQ. Why should you be >surprised that I don't know details about McCarthy's speeches? Quebeq Liberation Front? I don't know "real" French, sorry, I'm from Louisiana. Fronte Liberation de Quebec? Merde, it's been years since I've tried French of *any* sort. :-) Oh, and I learned about them from a US. comic book. -- J. Eric Townsend Internet: jet@uh.edu Bitnet: jet@UHOU Systems Manager - University of Houston Dept. of Mathematics - (713) 749-2120 EastEnders list: eastender@karazm.math.uh.edu Skate UNIX(r)
peter@ficc.ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) (11/18/90)
've been staying out of this one, but it's getting pretty old. I'd just like to note that: (a) I grew up in Australia... I am still an Australian citizen. (b) I did not recognise the speech. (c) It was not obviously a joke. I recognised it as such because I know Eric Townsend. He's no Joe McCarthy. Perhaps a few more smilies would be in order next time. Jay Maynard always seems to have a few on hand... -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' +1 713 274 5180. 'U` peter@ferranti.com
john@qip.UUCP (John Moore) (11/19/90)
In article <1659@huxley.cs.nps.navy.mil> jxxl@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (John Locke) writes: ]In article <> craig@com50.c2s.mn.org (Craig Wilson) writes: ] ]> The reason McCarthy should be studied is that he did a great deal to remove ]> the freedom and liberties from a number of Americans. He started the ignition ]> on a steamroller that was very difficult to stop. ] ]Agreed that he should be studied, but the mess was started by others, e.g. ]the first Hollywood tribunal by the HUAC in 1947. But McCarthy and the HUAC ]are merely the best remembered of the inquisition because they sought the ]most publicity. The real work was done through a number of legislative acts This is not to justify the abuses, but people do tend to forget that there were communists in Hollywood that were attempting to use their position to benefit Stalin's USSR at the expense of the US. There were several of these folks in my wife's family, so I speak from direct knowledge of these folks. Anyway, what does this have to do with EFF? -- John Moore HAM:NJ7E/CAP:T-Bird 381 {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!john USnail: 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale,AZ 85253 anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu Voice: (602) 951-9326 Wishful Thinking: Long palladium, Short Petroleum Opinion: Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are all my fault, and no one elses.
mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) (11/19/90)
In article <9Ryss4w163w@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca> curt@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Curt Sampson) writes: > >I think a lot of people on the net still don't quite realise that this >is an *international* network. Ethnocentricism seems to be a >perennial problem in the United States. I think you missed the point. No one is surprised that Canadians, Britons, or Australians, or any non-U.S. citizens didn't catch the reference, Curt. What's surprising is that some people who were educated in the United States missed the reference. Kind of like being raised in Ireland and not knowing what Parnell stood for. >I'm not surprised that most, if not all, of you who live in the U.S. >and are reading this don't know about the FLQ. Why should you be >surprised that I don't know details about McCarthy's speeches? I'm not surprised that you, or any other Canadian, do not catch a McCarthy parody. Again, the odd thing is the U.S. citizens who didn't catch it. --Mike, who suspects that even more of the U.S. citizens reading this thread didn't catch John Locke's reference either. -- Mike Godwin, (617) 864-0665 |"If the doors of perception were cleansed mnemonic@well.sf.ca.us | every thing would appear to man as it is, Electronic Frontier | infinite." Foundation | --Blake
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J. Eric Townsend) (11/19/90)
In article <JI179I7@xds13.ferranti.com> peter@ficc.ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes: >Perhaps a few more smilies would be in order next time. Jay Maynard always >seems to have a few on hand... If one doesn't do the job, would 50,000 more make a difference? -- J. Eric Townsend Internet: jet@uh.edu Bitnet: jet@UHOU Systems Manager - University of Houston Dept. of Mathematics - (713) 749-2120 EastEnders list: eastender@karazm.math.uh.edu Skate UNIX(r)
felton@eng3.UUCP (Ed Felton) (11/20/90)
Matthew Donald Drown writes: You can't expect such a diverse audience, here on the net, to all know a speech that was given before most of us were born. It is not stressed in school, like "four score and seven years ago..." Nor should it be, the general idea behind McCarthy's idiotic behavior should be looked at. Doctor Benway writes: The only excuse for not recognizing that speach is poor education. -- When artistic pretension is combined with abject | Archer Sully poverty the results are often VERY STUPID. | -- Crosley Bendix | archer@sgi.com And I say: The thing to realize, is letting the educational system just dump whatever they want into your head, is poor education. Education is something one acquires, not something one accepts. The McCarthy speech is something I never learned in High school, but one day someone mentioned Joeseph McCarthy, so I decided to find out who he was. I spent the better part of an afternoon seeking knowledge, and guess what! I found it. Anyone who expects to get along with the education they hand out, is looking for a fall. Just because they don't teach it is no reason not to know it. :yas I dnA