jim@piggy.ucsb.edu (Oreo Cat) (11/28/90)
Theres one important point in this debate which I haven't seen anyone
bring up yet. From what I read of John DeArmond's articles, one of the
reasons he is upset is because of some sort of credit dispute. I
sympathize with him, but banning or restricting databases will only
make things much much worse.
This may seem very elementary, but I want to make things clear...
Banks take a risk with each loan or line of credit they extend. They
take this risk because the payoffs for them can be very good if nothing
goes wrong. If things do go wrong, they could end up loosing money,
or having it tied up for a long time. So how do they know if a
particular person is worth taking the risk on? The best way currently
is to look at past performance. How much credit does the person
currently have, as compared with their current income? Do they have
a steady job which will be there in the future? How much in the hole
are they currently? Have they ever in the past made late payments?
etc... From this they can pretty much tell how you are going to
handle their money.
Now where do they get this information? From databases, of course.
What better way is there? You have a very complete set of fairly
accurate facts (at least most of the time). Consider what would
happen if these databases didn't exist. How would the banks know if
you are a good risk? The only way is to either get the applicant's
permission to collect information. Then they would have to do it
all themselves. This would cost a fortune! You don't think they
would take your word that you are a good, upstanding person? Can
you imagine how many would use this to their advantage? Just get
a few friends to say how good you are, and you have a bunch of money
to play with.
So banning or severely restricting databases would make it very
difficult to get credit. Is this what you want? It's not what I
want. I'd much rather have my mistakes on record for all to see.
It makes it more difficult to receive credit, but not impossible.
Credit is not something the banks owe anyone. It's a service
they offer to those who they beleive can handle the responsibility.
I will concede that it is difficult to remove bogus information from
the records. I still claim that this is good. Keeps the crooks
from driving up the fees and interest rates even higher. It IS
possible to get bogus information off. It just takes a while.
John DeArmond should look at his article regarding playing the
system when getting pulled over for speeding for some good pointers
he should keep in mind.
And don't let the marketers get you all worked up! It's easy to
hang up the phone or toss the envelope in the trash.
Jim Lick
Work: University of California | Home: 6657 El Colegio #24
Santa Barbara | Isla Vista, CA 93117-4280
Dept. of Mechanical Engr. | (805) 968-0189 voice
2311 Engr II Building | (805) 968-1239 data 1
(805) 893-4113 | (805) 968-2734 data 2
jim@ferkel.ucsb.edu | bahamut!jim@ivucsb.sba.ca.us merlyn@digibd.com (Brian Westley (Merlyn LeRoy)) (11/30/90)
Anyone up to creating a database of "all organizations that keep a database"? More importantly, would it list itself? --- Merlyn LeRoy N-P incomplete
craig@com50.c2s.mn.org (Craig Wilson) (11/30/90)
In article <1990Nov29.165310.667@digibd.com> merlyn@digibd.com (Brian Westley (Merlyn LeRoy)) writes: >Anyone up to creating a database of "all organizations that keep a database"? > >More importantly, would it list itself? >--- >Merlyn LeRoy >N-P incomplete Remember, when databases are outlawed, only outlaws will have databases. Two years ago, I started a search into the State of Minnesota innards to determine what information the state was keeping, what they were maintaining it on, and who had access to it. It was an interesting search which, after a number of phone calls, led me to a basement corner in a state office building. There was a group of people chartered to build and maintain a list of the very information I was seeking. They were compiling their list on a Tandy multi-user system. I was able to request and get a hardcopy of the database. The hardcopy output stood about eight inches high, although 25-30% of these pages were blank. Unfortunately, I could not get a magnetic version of the list. The database included listings running from professional certification results to data about IronWorld in Northern Minnesota. However, it did not include a reference to online legislation or legislative voting records. Nor, did it include a source for census derived data or demographic data, which are what I was really looking for. It did list what types of data could be obtained from the agency or department maintaining a database, and what media types could be used for output. You may be wondering why I was searching for sources of this kind of information. The answer is that I was working on some political campaigns for challengers to the State House and State Senate. In a suburban area that has experienced a fair amount of growth over the last decade, I was curious about how the demographic data described the area. As opposed to what people's ideas were about it. I was hoping to be able to get enough information to build profiles of the various neighborhoods, cities, and the district as a whole. And, I was looking to do it on a shoestring budget. It would be interesting to hear from people in other states and countries on whether a database of databases is available and what the "citizen" access rights are to that information. I feel that since the government and other organizations are going to build and maintain the lists, the citizens should be able to obtain and use the same data. Especially, the data obtained and maintained at taxpayer's expense. btw: The database list I received did NOT include a self-reference. /craig Craig S. Wilson | Democracy |uucp path under construction. Com Squared Systems, Inc | is not a |craig@c2s.mn.org 2520 Pilot Knob Road | spectator |(612) 452-9522 voice Mendota Heights MN 55120 | sport. |(612) 452-3607 fax