[comp.org.eff.talk] behind door #2 is ...

tom.jennings@f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (tom jennings) (04/15/91)

ANSWER: (a) doesn't matter. (b) does. I am amazed at the number of
Americans who cannot or will not make the separation between: what they
*personally* dislike, and how they expect people to treat them. Or to be
treated by our legal system(s). THIS IS THE EXACT PROBLEM. NO MORE, NO
LESS. In my limited experience, I've found that Europeans are slightly more
likely to make the distinction.

I got a chance to see a portion of an FBI file on me, on a San Francisco
police computer. It said, and I quote: "MFG/SELL DANGEROUS WEAPONS". I
swear I have never done anything more illegal than smoke a joint or run a
stop sign. The only time I sold a firearm was back to the store I bought it
at. Manufacturing firearms I have never done.

My shooting aquaintences familiar with law enforcement (yup I have cop
friends -- go figger) say this means, in cases like a visiting the site of
a disturbance, that they shoot first and ask questions later.

I think we have very good reasons to be afraid of our systems.

By the way -- the E.F.F. has essentially answered "yes" to (b), analogous
to the cases it is defending. And caught flak from it. Remember that? Is it
clear enough yet?


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bei@dogface (Bob Izenberg) (04/21/91)

tom.jennings@f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (tom jennings) writes:

> I got a chance to see a portion of an FBI file on me, on a San Francisco
> police computer. It said, and I quote: "MFG/SELL DANGEROUS WEAPONS".

Well, this is, I suppose, the next disturbing step after the credit bureau
issue.  While you're looking at the info whose gathering the collective we
paid for, check out your US Customs records as well.  If you haven't filed
an FOIA request yet, now may be the time.
-- Bob


               Bob Izenberg
         cs.utexas.edu!dogface!bei   [ ]   "So young, so bad... So what!"
             512 346 7019                        Wendy O. Williams

tom.jennings@f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (tom jennings) (04/27/91)

I don't see it as separate from the "credit bureau" issue, as a matter of 
fact I can't even tellt he difference -- it's simply "profiling". My 
assumption is that there's no one "targeting" me specifically (I'm not 
that kinda paranoid :-) but rather a number of odd things lined up in 
someones "profiles" ...

This is why I also think the very concept of profiling is bad. This use 
naturally follows the other. It is why I also think the only su\olution in 
the US is to have the default-built-in safeguards assume the 
data-compilators to have limits up front, rather than "we get to defend 
ourselves" afterwards, like the Equifax people et al propose. Ie. get your 
record(s) and correct errors.
 
All record-compilers could mail us our record once every year or so; we 
edit it, mail it back. This lets them off the hook for liability too as to 
accuracy. Coupled with a royalty or other kickback for usage of the 
record, we'd be in good shape an in cooperative business together. It 
could even hav checkboxes for "things I'm interested in" and the buyers of 
the various databases could provide them with feedback, reporting to the 
data compilers what in the checked boxes I actually bought. The compilers 
could give you a higher royalty based upon the accuracy of boxes checked 
vs. actual transactions etc.
 
Or you could simply return the record marked "do not use my name". Period.


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jefu@twics.co.jp (Jeffrey Shapard) (04/28/91)

Tom, maybe the "dangerous weapons" the FBI says you make and
sell refers to FIDO... or your 'zine... <smile>
 
--jefu

* Jeffrey Shapard <jefu@twics.co.jp>                       "Connectivity   *
* Connect-activist and Operations Director, TWICS, Tokyo    is our biz..." *

Tom.Jennings@f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Jennings) (05/02/91)

Quoting Jeffrey Shapard's msg of 28 Apr: 

 >Tom, maybe the "dangerous weapons" the FBI says you make and
 >sell refers to FIDO... or your 'zine... <smile>
 >--jefu

I'm not sure if that's better, or worse :-) 
 


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