ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Anthony Murdoch) (05/29/91)
Hi Netters,
Sorry about the cross-posting of this article, but the questions I want to
ask cover the realms of a few news groups and there doesn't appear to be
any general lan newsgroup or and group for MS LAN MANAGER.
We are looking into providing support for a LAN package and I have been
made part of an effort to decide which LAN package would be the best to
support. We already support DEC's PCSA here to provide PC connectivity
to our VAX's, but we are interested in providing connectivity to our other
machines as well as supporting a true LAN (I don't consider PCSA a true
LAN).
Our first consideration was PC/NFS (again not a true LAN), but I have been
recently given some information on Microsofts LAN Manager and it has my
interest arroused. But the presentation I have leaves some holes
(questions) that I would like answered before I consider it further. If
someone out there with LAN manager experience, or possibly even someone
from Microsoft, could answer some of these questions, I would be very
appreciative.
1> Is it absolutely necessary to have an OS/2 server to run LAN manager ?
We would prefer to be able to run with our UNIX box (SUN 470) as the
main server. This isn't a major point though so if there are a lot of
other advantages we will run with it :)
2> Which ethernet cards are supported by LM ? Or is that, which ethernet
cards support LM ? :) Particulary, are any of DEC's ethernet cards
supported. We have a large number of DEPCA Turbo ethernet boards (for
PCSA) and so having support for them would be advantage.
3> Is there any packages (Comercial/Shareware/Freeware) that provide
TCP/IP over LAN manager ?
4> Does LAN manager provide file services to UNIX boxes via NFS or does
it implement its own protocol ? I'm not sure which of these would be
preferable, perhaps you can offer some opinion ?
5> How does the allocation of resources work ? Does LM allow any user to
access any resource on any machine so long as the user has the
permissions ? If so, then does this include DOS machines ? I can see
it working with an OS/2 machine, but does it allow a DOS machines
resourses (printers etc) to be accessable by others without
interupting the user on that DOS machine ?
Does LM allow access to printers on remote UNIX/VMS machines ?
The kind of situation that we are looking at initially is where a site
wants to use our UNIX box for some of its file services, but still be
able to access its own printers etc. The site is not technically
orientated and so they want us to handle ALL server maintenance. Will
we be able to keep the server on our site or will there have to be a
duplicate server (or something) at their site to handle all their
printers etc ?
6> How good are the mail facilities ? Is it possible to send mail
to/from internet machines ?
7> Is it possible to connect to the LAN from a terminal ? How would this
be set up ? Is it possible to connect to the LAN through TCP/IP
(telnet) ? These are picky questions and not that important :)
8> What is the availability of sercer/connection software for
- Sun SPARCservers
- DEC VMS VAXes
- IBM VM Mainframes
Who sells/supports each of these ?
Well, I think that's all the questions I have. My thanks go in advance to
anyone who is willing to provide me any of the answers I need.
ant
V ant "I killed Laura Palmer"
\o/ ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au
-O- Anthony Murdoch Prentice Centre
/0\ Phone (07) 36 54078 University of Qldrbn@ralph.uucp (Bob Boyd) (05/29/91)
I'm curious. The original poster on this claimed that PCSA and PC/NFS aren't "True LAN" implementations. What are the characteristics of a network client/server/peer architecture that you believe make it a "True" LAN implementation? What about these 2 (and others) that you find limiting would have to be improved on to make them "True"? What is missing in your opinion? Which features do they have that others are missing? One of the most limiting features of most architectures/implementations that I've been exposed to is the heroic amount of effort required to establish "transparent" interoperability with other solutions. -- Bob rbn@epavax.rtpnc.epa.gov Unisys/EPA
ccmk@lure.latrobe.edu.au (05/29/91)
In article <1991May29.062359.29481@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au>, ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Anthony Murdoch) writes: >...We already support DEC's PCSA here to provide PC connectivity > to our VAX's, but we are interested in providing connectivity to our other > machines as well as supporting a true LAN (I don't consider PCSA a true > LAN). How do you define a true LAN? A local area network is just as it says, and PCSA can be the glue that makes it, just as Novell can, etc. > 1> Is it absolutely necessary to have an OS/2 server to run LAN manager ? > We would prefer to be able to run with our UNIX box (SUN 470) as the > main server. This isn't a major point though so if there are a lot of > other advantages we will run with it :) Lan Manager/X, i.e. lan manager for Unix, has either been released or will be soon. Don't know which platforms are supported. > 2> Which ethernet cards are supported by LM ? Or is that, which ethernet > cards support LM ? :) Particulary, are any of DEC's ethernet cards > supported. Lan Manager is a base from which network programs, such as PCSA, 3+Open, etc, work from. The individual software house determines such mundane issues, but more often than not NDIS drivers are supported, which means the DEC ethernet boards are okay. > 3> Is there any packages (Comercial/Shareware/Freeware) that provide > TCP/IP over LAN manager ? Again, Lan Man doesn't bother with the details, so PCSA works over DECnet, IBM might use Token Ring, etc. Obviously, if you use LM/X then TCP/IP might be the transport. Or, you can go for the many public domain (such as NCSA Telnet) or commercial packages (such as FTP's PC/TCP, etc). Often, when using NDIS, multiple protocols can be supported on s single workstation. > 4> Does LAN manager provide file services to UNIX boxes via NFS or does > it implement its own protocol ? I'm not sure which of these would be > preferable, perhaps you can offer some opinion ? Don't know. I guess NFS is a different ballgame, and would not be supported by LM. > 5> How does the allocation of resources work ? Does LM allow any user to > access any resource on any machine so long as the user has the > permissions ? Yes, provided the server is OS/2 or Unix, etc. > If so, then does this include DOS machines ? I can see > it working with an OS/2 machine, but does it allow a DOS machines > resourses (printers etc) to be accessable by others without > interupting the user on that DOS machine ? The limitations of DOS doesn't really allow that sort of resource sharing. > Does LM allow access to printers on remote UNIX/VMS machines ? PathWORKS for DOS uses LM. LM/X gives the same functionality on Unix. See also DEC's PathWORKS for Ultrix. > The kind of situation that we are looking at initially is where a site > wants to use our UNIX box for some of its file services, but still be > able to access its own printers etc. The site is not technically > orientated and so they want us to handle ALL server maintenance. Will > we be able to keep the server on our site or will there have to be a > duplicate server (or something) at their site to handle all their > printers etc ? > > 6> How good are the mail facilities ? Is it possible to send mail > to/from internet machines ? > > 7> Is it possible to connect to the LAN from a terminal ? How would this > be set up ? Is it possible to connect to the LAN through TCP/IP > (telnet) ? These are picky questions and not that important :) Don't really know about above. > 8> What is the availability of sercer/connection software for > - Sun SPARCservers > - DEC VMS VAXes > - IBM VM Mainframes > Who sells/supports each of these ? See my comments above re: LM/X, PathWORKS for VMS, Ultrix, OS/2 and/or DOS. Dr Mark Kosten, phone: +61 3 479-2767 Computer Centre, AARNet (internet): ccmk@lure.latrobe.edu.au La Trobe University, X.25 (PSI): 05052347300000::ccmk Bundoora, 3083 Australia
kozowski@ohsu3b2.ohsu.EDU (Eric Kozowski) (05/29/91)
In article <1991May29.062359.29481@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au> ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Anthony Murdoch) writes: >1> Is it absolutely necessary to have an OS/2 server to run LAN manager ? > We would prefer to be able to run with our UNIX box (SUN 470) as the > main server. This isn't a major point though so if there are a lot of > other advantages we will run with it :) No. LanMan has been ported by several vendors to run on UNIX and DOS as well as OS/2. > >2> Which ethernet cards are supported by LM ? Or is that, which ethernet > cards support LM ? :) Particulary, are any of DEC's ethernet cards > supported. We have a large number of DEPCA Turbo ethernet boards (for > PCSA) and so having support for them would be advantage. It depends on what the vendor decided to support. > >3> Is there any packages (Comercial/Shareware/Freeware) that provide > TCP/IP over LAN manager ? Most vendors have some sort of LanMan - TCP gateway available. TCP/IP and LanMan can run concurrently over the same network (both CSMA/CD). > >4> Does LAN manager provide file services to UNIX boxes via NFS or does > it implement its own protocol ? I'm not sure which of these would be > preferable, perhaps you can offer some opinion ? LanMan uses ISO/OSI protocols. Most large network envorionments currently use TCP/IP but the trend is toward shifting to ISO/OSI (the gov't has adopted ISO/OSI). > >5> How does the allocation of resources work ? Does LM allow any user to > access any resource on any machine so long as the user has the > permissions ? If so, then does this include DOS machines ? I can see > it working with an OS/2 machine, but does it allow a DOS machines > resourses (printers etc) to be accessable by others without > interupting the user on that DOS machine ? Yes. Yes. Sort of. RE: the last question -- It can be done but is quirky sometimes. > > Does LM allow access to printers on remote UNIX/VMS machines ? If the remote machine is part of the network (don't think VMS is supported by anyone yet, though). > > The kind of situation that we are looking at initially is where a site > wants to use our UNIX box for some of its file services, but still be > able to access its own printers etc. The site is not technically > orientated and so they want us to handle ALL server maintenance. Will > we be able to keep the server on our site or will there have to be a > duplicate server (or something) at their site to handle all their > printers etc ? As far as I know you would net to have some sort of server on their site for the printers. I could be wrong though. > >6> How good are the mail facilities ? Is it possible to send mail > to/from internet machines ? Answer to both questions: It depends on what the vendor provides for a mail package. LanMan doesn't have a standardized mail package that I know of. At our site we can mail to the Internet and vice-versa. > >7> Is it possible to connect to the LAN from a terminal ? How would this > be set up ? Is it possible to connect to the LAN through TCP/IP > (telnet) ? These are picky questions and not that important :) Not that I know of. Not really. It depends on what you mean by "connect to the LAN". > >8> What is the availability of sercer/connection software for > - Sun SPARCservers > - DEC VMS VAXes > - IBM VM Mainframes > Who sells/supports each of these ? I have'nt heard of anyone porting LanMan to Any of these machines but maybe someone has. If you have anymore questions, feel free to drop me some email. -- Eric Kozowski kozowski@ohsu.edu Networks & Computing Dept. Oregon Health Sciences University
mshiels@tmsoft (Michael A. Shiels) (05/31/91)
1> Is it absolutely necessary to have an OS/2 server to run LAN manager ?
We would prefer to be able to run with our UNIX box (SUN 470) as the
main server. This isn't a major point though so if there are a lot of
other advantages we will run with it :)
Answer: AT&T/SCO and Microsoft (plus others!) have a working LAN Manager/X
which is LAN Manager for Unix. There are other platforms that LAN
Manager is being ported too as well.
2> Which ethernet cards are supported by LM ? Or is that, which ethernet
cards support LM ? :) Particulary, are any of DEC's ethernet cards
supported. We have a large number of DEPCA Turbo ethernet boards (for
PCSA) and so having support for them would be advantage.
Answer: Any card with an NDIS specification driver will work. This includes
some of the DEC cards, 3com, Western Digital, Racal ......
3> Is there any packages (Comercial/Shareware/Freeware) that provide
TCP/IP over LAN manager ?
Answer: There are TCP/IP packages for OS/2 (which will co-exist with LAN
Manager) from IBM, Essex, FTP software etc. Some have a NetBIOS over
TCP/IP layer which will then allow you to run LAN Manager ontop of
TCP/IP.
4> Does LAN manager provide file services to UNIX boxes via NFS or does
it implement its own protocol ? I'm not sure which of these would be
preferable, perhaps you can offer some opinion ?
Answer: You can use LAN Manager/X Client for Unix to access OS/2 servers or
you could see if there is an NFS server out from any of the TCP/IP
vendors.
5> How does the allocation of resources work ? Does LM allow any user to
access any resource on any machine so long as the user has the
permissions ? If so, then does this include DOS machines ? I can see
it working with an OS/2 machine, but does it allow a DOS machines
resourses (printers etc) to be accessable by others without
interupting the user on that DOS machine ?
Answer: DOS machines can only be clients not servers.
Does LM allow access to printers on remote UNIX/VMS machines ?
Answer: Not right now but there are people working on that.
The kind of situation that we are looking at initially is where a site
wants to use our UNIX box for some of its file services, but still be
able to access its own printers etc. The site is not technically
orientated and so they want us to handle ALL server maintenance. Will
we be able to keep the server on our site or will there have to be a
duplicate server (or something) at their site to handle all their
printers etc ?
6> How good are the mail facilities ? Is it possible to send mail
to/from internet machines ?
Answer: Microsoft Mail has just been announced and includes gateways to SMTP,
X.400 etc.
7> Is it possible to connect to the LAN from a terminal ? How would this
be set up ? Is it possible to connect to the LAN through TCP/IP
(telnet) ? These are picky questions and not that important :)
Answer: Not really.
8> What is the availability of sercer/connection software for
- Sun SPARCservers
- DEC VMS VAXes
- IBM VM Mainframes
Who sells/supports each of these ?
Well, I think that's all the questions I have. My thanks go in advance to
anyone who is willing to provide me any of the answers I need.
ant
V ant "I killed Laura Palmer"
\o/ ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au
-O- Anthony Murdoch Prentice Centre
/0\ Phone (07) 36 54078 University of Qldant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Anthony Murdoch) (05/31/91)
rbn@ralph.uucp (Bob Boyd) writes: >I'm curious. The original poster on this claimed that PCSA and PC/NFS >aren't "True LAN" implementations. >What are the characteristics of a network client/server/peer architecture >that you believe make it a "True" LAN implementation? I guess it depends on what you expect out of a LAN. Things like PCSA and PCNFS are designed to provide connectivity from you PC to some non-PC (ie mini or above) computer (ie PCNFS to UNIX host/servers and PCSA to VMS host/servers) I see a LAN as something that provides PC-PC connectivity, as well as PC-(big machine) connectivity. I guess my ideals are approaching a distributed network (everyone can access everything). I have to thank everyone for the answers provided, though one thing worries me. Some of the answers have completely different answers. ant V ant "I killed Laura Palmer" \o/ ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au -O- Anthony Murdoch Prentice Centre /0\ Phone (07) 36 54078 University of Qld
goldman@mbcl.rutgers.edu (06/01/91)
In article <1991May31.114125.25264@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au>, ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Anthony Murdoch) writes: > rbn@ralph.uucp (Bob Boyd) writes: > >>I'm curious. The original poster on this claimed that PCSA and PC/NFS >>aren't "True LAN" implementations. > >>What are the characteristics of a network client/server/peer architecture >>that you believe make it a "True" LAN implementation? > > I guess it depends on what you expect out of a LAN. Things like PCSA and > PCNFS are designed to provide connectivity from you PC to some non-PC (ie > mini or above) computer (ie PCNFS to UNIX host/servers and PCSA to VMS > host/servers) > > I see a LAN as something that provides PC-PC connectivity, as well as > PC-(big machine) connectivity. I guess my ideals are approaching a > distributed network (everyone can access everything). I guess I would say that one can't have PC-PC connectivity -- certainly not GOOD PC-PC connectivity, if those PCs are running DOS. DOS has too many memory limitations, no protection for processes, etc, etc... The MAC (for instance) which doesn't have as many strikes against it as a network machine manages to have quite respectable connectivity. I don't believe DOS boxes ever will.... > > I have to thank everyone for the answers provided, though one thing > worries me. Some of the answers have completely different answers. > > ant > > V ant "I killed Laura Palmer" > \o/ ant@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au > -O- Anthony Murdoch Prentice Centre > /0\ Phone (07) 36 54078 University of Qld -- Adrian Goldman | Internet: Goldman@MBCL.Rutgers.Edu Molecular Biology Computing Laboratory | Bitnet: Goldman@BioVAX Waksman Insitute, | Phone: (908) 932-4864 Rutgers University, | Fax: (908) 932-5735 Piscataway, NJ 08855 USA |
d9mikael@dtek.chalmers.se (Mikael Wahlgren) (06/01/91)
In article <m4bgf8cq0@tmsoft> mshiels@tmsoft (Michael A. Shiels) writes: >7> Is it possible to connect to the LAN from a terminal ? How would this > be set up ? Is it possible to connect to the LAN through TCP/IP > (telnet) ? These are picky questions and not that important :) >Answer: Not really. It is possible to connect to an OS/2 full screen session with a terminal, by using Os2You (shareware). The solution is to install Os2You on one of the servers/requesters on the LAN, and you would be able to connect to an OS/2 full screen session via async. line (modem or cable). It works quite like the dial in unix machine I am running now. Mikael Wahlgren d9mikael@dtek.chalmers.se
d9mikael@dtek.chalmers.se (Mikael Wahlgren) (06/02/91)
In article <m4bgf8cq0@tmsoft> mshiels@tmsoft (Michael A. Shiels) writes: >7> Is it possible to connect to the LAN from a terminal ? How would this > be set up ? Is it possible to connect to the LAN through TCP/IP > (telnet) ? These are picky questions and not that important :) >Answer: Not really. It is possible to connect to an OS/2 full screen session, by using the program Os2You (shareware). The solution is to install Os2You on a server or requester and Os2You will let you access an OS/2 full screen session via an asynchronous terminal via cable or modem. It works just like the dial in unix machine I am running now. Mikael Wahlgren d9mikael@dtek.chalmers.se
d9mikael@dtek.chalmers.se (Mikael Wahlgren) (06/02/91)
In article <1991Jun1.090049.8256@mathrt0.math.chalmers.se> d9mikael@dtek.chalmers.se (Mikael Wahlgren) writes: >It is possible to connect to an OS/2 full screen session with a terminal, >by using Os2You (shareware). The solution is to install Os2You on one Sorry if this showed up repeatedly. I wasn't aware that the message made it through, as it certainly didn't look like that when I sent it. Mikael Wahlgren d9mikael@dtek.chalmers.se
qseclrb@prism.gatech.EDU (BOB BAGGERMAN) (06/05/91)
In article <1991May29.151027.27342@ohsu.edu>, kozowski@ohsu3b2.ohsu.EDU (Eric Kozowski) writes: > > We have a large number of DEPCA Turbo ethernet boards (for > > PCSA) and so having support for them would be advantage. > It depends on what the vendor decided to support. LanMan Client (and Server) 'talk' to the NDIS driver. NDIS drivers are available almost all e-net boards, even the newer DEC ones. > > > >3> Is there any packages (Comercial/Shareware/Freeware) that provide > > TCP/IP over LAN manager ? > Most vendors have some sort of LanMan - TCP gateway available. TCP/IP > and LanMan can run concurrently over the same network (both CSMA/CD). With NDIS you can run multiple protocols over the same interface. The setup I use (which I think works pretty spiffy) is to use Microsofts NetBEUI protocol to do LanMan stuff, load and bind the NDIS to Packet driver interface, and then use packet driver based TCP/IP software (like PC/TCP or CUTCP) to do TCP/IP kinds of stuff. > >4> Does LAN manager provide file services to UNIX boxes via NFS or does > > it implement its own protocol ? I'm not sure which of these would be > > preferable, perhaps you can offer some opinion ? > LanMan uses ISO/OSI protocols. Huh? Actually the modular nature of LanMan allows you to use any one of a number of protocols. The ones I know of are NetBEUI, NBP, XNS, and TCP/IP. > >5> How does the allocation of resources work ? Does LM allow any user to > > access any resource on any machine so long as the user has the > > permissions ? If so, then does this include DOS machines ? LanMan resource serving is done from an OS/2 based system. For now that means that your server runs OS/2. There is third party software available to allow DOS machines to offer disk and printing resources to the rest of the LanMan clients. In the future if and when clients dump DOS and move to OS/2 then LanMan can start to look more and more like a peer to peer network because OS/2 workstations can then act as both a client server. Could be neat! > (don't think VMS is supported by anyone yet, though). > >8> What is the availability of sercer/connection software for > > - Sun SPARCservers > > - DEC VMS VAXes > > - IBM VM Mainframes > > Who sells/supports each of these ? > > I have'nt heard of anyone porting LanMan to Any of these machines but maybe > someone has. Now the real reason I replied to this article (sorry, I always get carried away). I understand that DEC Pathworks 4.0 is based on LanMan 2.0 code. I think it is not a full LM 2.0 implementation but it has been implied that if the TCP/IP transport is chosen for both the VMS side and the PC side then LanMan 2.0 client can connect to VMS Pathworks 4.0 server. I have not tried this but would love to hear from anyone who has. I like the LanMan product and think for larger LANs it has some strong features. It should be interesting to see how the market responds to LM 2.0 especially the Unix ports of LM 2.0 which are now showing up. I wonder if anything can slow the Novell juggernaut. Bob rwb@csdvax.gatech.edu -- Bob Baggerman ! rwb@csdvax.gatech.edu Communications Laboratory ! qseclrb@hydra.gatech.edu Georgia Tech Research Institute ! bbaggerm@gtri01.gatech.edu Atlanta, GA 30332 ! 404-894-3525 or 404-528-7660