soreff (12/20/82)
One item that got left out of the "green christmas" discussion is that christmas is really a ~druid holiday. Most of the things associated with christmas (mistletoe, christmas tree, yule log) are northern-european-pagan in origin. I recall reading (sorry, no reference availible) that the church picked the date of christmas in order to compete with pagan celebrations at that time of year. -Jeffrey Soreff (hplabs!soreff)
wsp (12/23/82)
I concur that Christmas is at essence non-denominational but I question whether it is fair to label it druid in one breath and "northern-european-pagan" in the next. On another tack, I am interested in outting some of the paganism back in Christmas and would welcome any authentic (preferably non-sacrificial or homocidal) rites that our "northern-european-pagan"s (NEPs) performed at the winter solstice. Peter Benson ittdcd-west (619)578-3080
mclure (01/01/83)
#R:hplabsb:-123300:sri-unix:7300005:000:241 sri-unix!mclure Dec 28 08:20:00 1982 Hmm, I always thought that Dec 25 in the Julian calendar was the winter solstice and this was the cause of the celebration, rebirth of the sun, etc. Then, the Christians adopted this day for their Christ and things have followed since then.
rah (01/03/83)
Easter is directly linked to the Jewish holy day of passover. More generally, Christianity became the state religion of the roman empire, so I would expect that some observances were a merger of some roman pagan holiday with a Christian excuse for a celebration. Rich Hammond, npoiv!rah
wagner (01/03/83)
So when was Jesus actually born?
jhf (01/04/83)
utcsstat!wagner asks when Jesus was really born (if not December 25 or January 6). As I understand it, He was probably born in the spring, since St. Matthew tells us that shepherds were keeping watch over their flocks by night, and that such watches were kept only in spring, when there are lambs about.
rew (01/04/83)
An interesting question. One could insist that he was born in 1 A.V.D. (that's True Year of our Lord) but that would be begging the question. My understanding is that the best guess is the Spring of 6 B.C. (current convention). This is based on several bits of information such as when Herod was King of Judea, when Augustus was Ceasar, when Quirinius was governor of Syria, when the Empire imposed taxes, and so on. The season is derived from the fact that shepards of the period tended their flocks by night in the Spring during lambing. It also fits in with an interesting hypothesis about the "Star" of Bethlehem. One starts with the assumption that the Magi were in fact Zoroastrian priests from the area now known as Iran. This relgious group was (and still is, probably) intensely interested in astrological events. Among the events of early 6 B.C. was a thrice repeated conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in the constellation Pisces (known to the Zoroastrians as the House of the Hebrews). This was followed by a triple conjunction with Mars. One can imagine intense interest on their part as to just what monumental event was occurring in Judea at the time. Bob Warren cbosgd!nscs!rew
jhf (01/05/83)
Earlier, I attributed the account of shepherds watching over their flocks by night to St. Matthew. Of course, that should be St. Luke.
heliotis (01/07/83)
Jesus was born sometime in 4 B.C., they say.
rich (01/12/83)
Jesus was born on or about: MARCH 4BCE So what's BCE? It is the proper terminology. We use BC as Before Christ when it NEVER meant that. BCE is Before the Christian Era.
jnwVAL (01/13/83)
I find it amazing that people will submit articles to net.followup, or for that matter any net group and make misleading statements without having done thorough research. In (tektronix.892) we are told (incorrectly) that BC `NEVER meant [before Christ].' The Second College Edition of the Webster New World Dictionary lists `Before Christ' and `British Columbia' as its only two meanings for B.C. I think you can guess which one is relevant here. In (yale-com.644) we are told (misleadingly) that `BCE != Before the Christian Era.' While Webster does indeed list B.C.E. as meaning `Before the Common Era', if one looks up `Common Era', one finds it is `same as [in italics] Christian Era.' I don't think it too much to ask that we accept either of these as a reasonable meaning. My point?? Although we cannot prevent net discussions which some will feel are garbage, we can prevent incorrect or misleading statements from being sent. Before providing answers to net questions, and especially before flaming, please make sure your facts are straight. joe wilson uucp: ...decvax!duke!mcnc!uvacs!jnwVAL CSnet: jnwVAL@uvacs Arpa: jnwVAL.uvacs@udel-relay