gaudreau@juggler.East.Sun.COM (Joe Gaudreau - Sun BOS Software) (02/08/91)
How about a constructive discussion on programming environments and tools that people use on their ST's? Many would benefit I'm sure (including me :-). My big dilemma is trying to find a 'good' make and cc wrapper for compiler 'x' (where 'x' might be MWC, Turbo-C, Alcyon (shudder), etc). Any ideas? Ideally, I'd like them to work in harmony under Gulam. I've looked at atari.archive and am hoping for more info. Pointers to Commercial applications would be useful as well. Some question for Emacs 3.10s hackers: (1) How to I turn off that bloody function key menu (alter something in the emacs startup file I suspect). (2) If I'm running it from a command line, how do I tell it where the home directory is (for emacs startup, etc). I'm sure this is in the doc somewhere but I haven't stumbled over it yet. Thanx. Joe -=-
jerry@TALOS.UUCP (Jerry Gitomer) (02/09/91)
gaudreau@juggler.East.Sun.COM (Joe Gaudreau - Sun BOS Software) writes:
:How about a constructive discussion on programming environments and tools
:that people use on their ST's? Many would benefit I'm sure (including me
::-).
:My big dilemma is trying to find a 'good' make and cc wrapper for
:compiler 'x' (where 'x' might be MWC, Turbo-C, Alcyon (shudder), etc).
:Any ideas? Ideally, I'd like them to work in harmony under Gulam.
:I've looked at atari.archive and am hoping for more info. Pointers to
:Commercial applications would be useful as well.
IMHO your best bet is buy MINIX. It looks like V7-UNIX,
comes with a reasonably full set of UNIX utilities
(including cc, make,elvis - a vi look-a-like, elle - an
emacs look-a-like, and a real shell.) And, except for the c
compiler and elle you get =source code= for everything! MINIX is
available from Prentice-Hall (or any bookstore that deals with
them) and has a list price of $169. The minimum configuration
you will need to run all of the utilities is a 1 meg machine and
you should have 2.5 meg (or better) with two double sided floppy
drives.
--
Jerry Gitomer at National Political Resources Inc, Alexandria, VA USA
I am apolitical, have no resources, and speak only for myself.
Ma Bell (703)683-9090 (UUCP: ...{uupsi,vrdxhq}!pbs!npri6!jerry REEVES@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Terry Reeves) (02/09/91)
I sometimes use Mitch Bradley's shareware Forth system, FORTHMACS, as the
equivalent of a CLI. I've never bothered to set up anything else for a CLI.
I almost always use the programming environment supplied by the compiler
writers.
Terrydc@presto.ruhr.de (David Channing) (02/12/91)
In article <4219@eastapps.East.Sun.COM> gaudreau@juggler.East.Sun.COM (Joe Gaudreau - Sun BOS Software) writes: > > How about a constructive discussion on programming environments and tools > that people use on their ST's? Many would benefit I'm sure (including me > > My big dilemma is trying to find a 'good' make and cc wrapper for > compiler 'x' (where 'x' might be MWC, Turbo-C, Alcyon (shudder), etc). > Any ideas? Ideally, I'd like them to work in harmony under Gulam. There are plenty of useable MAKE's around, you should be able to get one from any good PD Library. Good CC's are harder to find. I rewrote the Sozobon CC to work with Turbo-C, I can post it if there's enough interest. -- dc@presto.ruhr.sub.org dc@presto.ruhr.de
7103_2622@uwovax.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) (02/13/91)
> How about a constructive discussion on programming environments and tools > that people use on their ST's? Many would benefit I'm sure (including me > :-). > > My big dilemma is trying to find a 'good' make and cc wrapper for > compiler 'x' (where 'x' might be MWC, Turbo-C, Alcyon (shudder), etc). > Any ideas? Ideally, I'd like them to work in harmony under Gulam. > I've looked at atari.archive and am hoping for more info. Pointers to > Commercial applications would be useful as well. > If you've got the memory (2 megabytes or more) the various gnu utilities that have been ported to the ST provide a very nice, Unix-like environment. I use gcc, gnu make, and gulam most of the time, with bash for running Unix shell scripts or for when I'm running MGR; the latter two require MiNT, although there is a TOS version of bash as well. Add a few other utilities (like diff, patch, wc, and some form of emacs) and you have just about everything a programmer could want. All that's missing is RCS, and Allan Pratt mentioned that he's working on porting this. -- Eric R. Smith email: Dept. of Mathematics eric.smith@uwo.ca University of Western Ontario 7103_2622@uwovax.bitnet
wolfram@akela.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Wolfram Roesler) (02/13/91)
gaudreau@juggler.East.Sun.COM (Joe Gaudreau - Sun BOS Software) writes: >(2) If I'm running emacs from a command line, how do I tell it where the >home directory is (for emacs startup, etc). Check the manual for the command line options. As far as I remember it's -d or -D to load a specified startup file, like emacs filename -d/emacs/emacs.rc Try to set the HOME env variable with your command shell, this might also work. Talking about programming environment, I heavily use the Okami Shell rather than Gulam or any other shell since it can do a lot more. In the Okami Shell, you would have to type HOME=/emacs export HOME or put these lines in your profile to change the home directory. Gulam should require a command like setenv HOME or the like.
klamer@mi.eltn.utwente.nl (Klamer Schutte -- Universiteit Twente) (02/14/91)
jerry@TALOS.UUCP (Jerry Gitomer) writes: >gaudreau@juggler.East.Sun.COM (Joe Gaudreau - Sun BOS Software) writes: >:How about a constructive discussion on programming environments and tools >:that people use on their ST's? Many would benefit I'm sure (including me >::-). >:My big dilemma is trying to find a 'good' make and cc wrapper for >:compiler 'x' (where 'x' might be MWC, Turbo-C, Alcyon (shudder), etc). >:Any ideas? Ideally, I'd like them to work in harmony under Gulam. >:I've looked at atari.archive and am hoping for more info. Pointers to >:Commercial applications would be useful as well. >IMHO your best bet is buy MINIX. It looks like V7-UNIX, >comes with a reasonably full set of UNIX utilities >(including cc, make,elvis - a vi look-a-like, elle - an >emacs look-a-like, and a real shell.) And, except for the c >compiler and elle you get =source code= for everything! MINIX is >available from Prentice-Hall (or any bookstore that deals with >them) and has a list price of $169. The minimum configuration >you will need to run all of the utilities is a 1 meg machine and >you should have 2.5 meg (or better) with two double sided floppy >drives. Yes, i know, minix is a great programming environment -- but you need to say that minix != tos, so all you can write are minix == unix programs! Now you know what i use when i am writing unix programs ... When programming in tos (in my setup all graphical programs etc.) i use the cc wrapper supplied by the compiler ( how about the TurboC one :-) ). I finish it with the PD make as found in all the atari archives. The rules part needs a bit of tweeking for all compilers, but this is not too difficult (But i ended up with five makes: MWC, MEGAMAX, TurboC + GPshell, TurboC + Gulam, Sozobon) Note that my rule for ld, the loader, for TurboC involves calling a program which produces a .lnk file -- TurboC does not understand more than 126 characters on the command line. Klamer -- Klamer Schutte Faculty of electrical engineering -- University of Twente, The Netherlands klamer@mi.eltn.utwente.nl {backbone}!mcsun!mi.eltn.utwente.nl!klamer
pegram@kira.UUCP (Robert B. Pegram) (02/15/91)
From article <1207626@presto.ruhr.de>, by dc@presto.ruhr.de (David Channing): > In article <4219@eastapps.East.Sun.COM> gaudreau@juggler.East.Sun.COM > (Joe Gaudreau - Sun BOS Software) writes: >> >> How about a constructive discussion on programming environments and tools >> that people use on their ST's? Many would benefit I'm sure (including me Seconded. >> My big dilemma is trying to find a 'good' make and cc wrapper for >> compiler 'x' (where 'x' might be MWC, Turbo-C, Alcyon (shudder), etc). >> Any ideas? Ideally, I'd like them to work in harmony under Gulam. > > There are plenty of useable MAKE's around, you should be able to get one from > any good PD Library. Good CC's are harder to find. I rewrote the Sozobon CC to > work with Turbo-C, I can post it if there's enough interest. > > -- > dc@presto.ruhr.sub.org > dc@presto.ruhr.de Excuse my ignorance, but what *is* a "cc wrapper"? I can only think of the environment variable CC that is set up sometimes in make files. As for posting it - sure if it's useful, I'd like it and a make for Lattice C 5.06 (they don't give you a make!). thanks, Bob Pegram pegram@griffin.uvm.edu or ...!uvm-gen!pegram
bobw@hpsad.HP.COM (Bob Waltenspiel) (02/15/91)
In comp.sys.atari.st.tech, 7103_2622@uwovax.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) writes: >All that's missing is RCS, and Allan Pratt mentioned that he's working >on porting this. I downloaded from GEnie just last night the RCS binaries. Sources are also available. I don't remember who ported it though. -Bob
apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) (02/15/91)
7103_2622@uwovax.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) writes: >All that's missing is RCS, and Allan Pratt mentioned that he's working >on porting this. I *did* port this! I mailed it to the moderator of comp.[sources/binaries].atari.st, but nothing's happened yet. I haven't even gotten a confirmation. Did I do something wrong? What is the official way to submit something for posting? I also posted it to atari.archive, but people using BART know you can't get there from here any more. I don't know about the rest of the world -- is that archive still available via FTP? Would somebody with FTP access check for me? I did get confirmation from the folks who run that show. The files should be called RCS5AP1S.LZH and RCS5AP1B.LZH for source and binary. Also DIFF115S.LZH, or something like that, since I had to release the source to my port of GNU diff version 1.15. ============================================ Opinions expressed above do not necessarily -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp. reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. ...ames!atari!apratt
rfpfeifl@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Ron 'Broth' Pfeifle) (02/15/91)
In article <18420010@hpsad.HP.COM> bobw@hpsad.HP.COM (Bob Waltenspiel) writes: >In comp.sys.atari.st.tech, 7103_2622@uwovax.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) writes: >>All that's missing is RCS, and Allan Pratt mentioned that he's working >>on porting this. >I downloaded from GEnie just last night the RCS binaries. Sources are >also available. I don't remember who ported it though. Be careful, RCS is an overloaded acronym. I'm pretty sure that the RCS mentioned in the first context is Revision Control System. Did Bob mean this or some sort of Resource Construction Set? Since I can't access GEnie, I can't check. Ron
gaudreau@juggler.East.Sun.COM (Joe Gaudreau - Sun BOS Software) (02/16/91)
Hmmm. Seems like I started a productive thread! Vive la diff... Well, I've got Gulam (*07) & GnuMake (3.58) & Turbo-C working together pretty well. Every now and then I get some kind of bomb (I suspect Gulam & Make interactions, maybe it's something odd about TOS 2.05) during the exit of one of the TC programs. Seems to work adequately. I wouldn't mind something more bullet-proof though. I'm told that GPShell (part of the Craft development package), marketed by CoMedia of Amsterdam, Holland is a "solid" product. Includes a built in make, a shell script language, file completion, pipes, redirects, etc. Question of the day is: Is this still available? Anyone know more about it? Thanx for the help and advice I've gotten thus far from the Net Gang! Joe -=-
millert@tramp.Colorado.EDU (MILLER TODD C) (02/16/91)
In article <2838@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: >7103_2622@uwovax.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) writes: >comp.[sources/binaries].atari.st, but nothing's happened yet. I haven't >even gotten a confirmation. Did I do something wrong? What is the >official way to submit something for posting? > >I also posted it to atari.archive, but people using BART know you can't get >there from here any more. I don't know about the rest of the world -- is >that archive still available via FTP? Would somebody with FTP access check >for me? I did get confirmation from the folks who run that show. The >files should be called RCS5AP1S.LZH and RCS5AP1B.LZH for source and binary. > Also DIFF115S.LZH, or something like that, since I had to release the >source to my port of GNU diff version 1.15. Its on the archive... - Todd -- Todd C. Miller | "But all the politiCIAns now millert@tramp.Colorado.EDU | They have no excuse al804@cleveland.Freenet.Edu | They just hide behind their power University of Colorado @ Boulder | And keep us from the truth" - Roger McGuinn
dc@presto.ruhr.de (David Channing) (02/16/91)
In article <1991Feb14.161614.27659@uvm.edu> pegram@kira.UUCP (Robert B. Pegram) writes: > >> My big dilemma is trying to find a 'good' make and cc wrapper for > >> compiler 'x' (where 'x' might be MWC, Turbo-C, Alcyon (shudder), etc). > >> Any ideas? Ideally, I'd like them to work in harmony under Gulam. > > > Excuse my ignorance, but what *is* a "cc wrapper"? I can only think > of the environment variable CC that is set up sometimes in make files. The idea of cc is to have one program that calls all the right programs (pre- processors, compiler passes, optimizers, linkers) in the right order with the right command lines. Basically you set up cc so it 'knows' where to find your include files and your libraries (and the executables if they're not in the PATH). Then you just type for example: cc -f aaa.c bbb.s ccc.o ddd.lib instead of: tcc $CFLAGS -Id:\tc\include\ aaa.c mas $ASFLAGS bbb.c tlink o=aaa.prg d:\tc\lib\tcstart.o aaa.o bbb.o ccc.o ddd.lib \ d:\tc\lib\tcfltlib.lib d:\tc\lib\tcstdlib.lib -- dc@presto.ruhr.sub.org dc@presto.ruhr.de
ljdickey@watmath.waterloo.edu (L.J.Dickey) (02/16/91)
In article <2838@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: >7103_2622@uwovax.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) writes: >>All that's missing is RCS, and Allan Pratt mentioned that he's working >>on porting this. > >I *did* port this! ... >I also posted it to atari.archive, ... > I don't know about the rest of the world -- is > that archive still available via FTP? Would somebody with FTP access check > for me? Yes, it is up, and these files are in the index: -rw-r--r-- 1 weiner 309735 Feb 2 12:00 rcs5ap1b.lzh -rw-r--r-- 1 weiner 229002 Feb 2 12:00 rcs5ap1s.lzh
piet@cs.ruu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) (02/16/91)
>>>>> In message <1991Feb12.234040.8587@uwovax.uwo.ca>, 7103_2622@uwovax.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) (ES) writes:
ES> All that's missing is RCS, and Allan Pratt mentioned that he's working
ES> on porting this.
Allan told he would be working on RCS version 5. In the mean time I got RCS
version 4.3 from somebody who got it from somebody else (The name of the
proter must be somewhere in the files, but no address was included - I just
forgot who it was, but it was a person in Groningen, the Netherlands).
I have put this version in our archive for those who can't wait for Allan.
How to get rcs.zoo from the archive at
Dept. of Computer Science, Utrecht University:
NOTE: In the following I have assumed your mail address is john@highbrow.edu.
Of course you must substitute your own address for this. This should be
a valid internet or uucp address. For bitnet users name@host.BITNET
usually works.
by FTP: (please restrict access to weekends or evening/night (i.e. between
about 20.00 and 0900 UTC).
ftp archive.cs.ruu.nl [131.211.80.5]
user name: anonymous or ftp
password: your own email address (e.g. john@highbrow.edu)
cd /pub
don't forget to set binary mode if the file is a tar/arc/zoo archive,
compressed or in any other way contains binary data.
get ATARI-ST/utils/rcs.zoo
by mail-server:
send the following message to
mail-server@cs.ruu.nl (or uunet!mcsun!hp4nl!ruuinf!mail-server):
begin
path john@highbrow.edu (PLEASE SUBSTITUTE *YOUR* ADDRESS)
send ATARI-ST/utils/rcs.zoo
end
NOTE: *** PLEASE USE VALID INTERNET ADDRESSES IF POSSIBLE. DO NOT USE
ADDRESSES WITH ! and @ MIXED !!!! BITNETTERS USE USER@HOST.BITNET ***
The path command can be deleted if we receive a valid from address in your
message. If this is the first time you use our mail server, we suggest you
first issue the request:
send HELP
--
Piet* van Oostrum, Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University,
Padualaan 14, P.O. Box 80.089, 3508 TB Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Telephone: +31 30 531806 Uucp: uunet!mcsun!ruuinf!piet
Telefax: +31 30 513791 Internet: piet@cs.ruu.nl (*`Pete')andyc@hplsla.HP.COM (Andy Cassino) (02/17/91)
re: programming environments, etc....
I just recently downloaded Allan Pratt's port of RCS (Revision Control
System) from GEnie (since I have no ftp access) and it's SWELL! This filled
my last remaining major wish for programming tools on my ST. Thanks
a bunch Allan!
My other programming tools are: gulam, which I love for it's pathname
completion; Mark Williams C, which I find quite adequate for my purposes
and the documentation is indispensable; MicroEmacs 3.10; and the make
program that came with MWC. Plus I have a pile of tools like grep, awk,
etc that came from various places. This all makes for a very pleasant
programming environment on the ST.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
% Andy Cassino %
% Hewlett-Packard - Lake Stevens Instrument Division %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%hohr@cernvax.cern.ch (roger hoh) (02/18/91)
Hi, Just to add my $.02 at this interesting subject. I own a Mega ST1 with 2 drives (no HD). So it wasn't easy to work with MWC (in ram disc for speed reasons). Now, I've the whole stuff in a 500k ram disc. I 'packiced' all the (other than text) files and all the text (ASCII) files thru a filter that removes all the (C) comments. Unfortunatly, 'packice' doesn't works for all the non ASCII files, so be warned and do this ONLY on a copy. For exemple .ACC's and uniterm.prg (two that I just have in mind) don't like to be 'packiced'. I've to have also only small .ACC's. I'm now waiting for the Mega STE (with 4 Megs)... Regards Roger hohr@cernvax.cern.ch
gaudreau@juggler.East.Sun.COM (Joe Gaudreau - Sun BOS Software) (02/20/91)
On yet another environment front, is there something that will "modify" GEM or otherwise provide a default font other than the standard? I'd like Emacs 3.10, GEM text windows (read Gulam), etc to have a nice, read- able, eye saving font. The editor for Turbo-C (and in general) has many font's that it uses and while not perfect on a color monitor - they are quite pleasing. The only things I can think of is perhaps G*Dos (but I'm a new guy and wouldn't know about this yet). Having written my first TOS/MIDI program, I got burned in a big way (okay, it was only 2/3 of an hour) by trying to find out why fopen(..., "r") wouldn't read my data files (unsigned ascii). Seems that fopen(..., "rb") is the answer (for TC). Live and learn (it ain't unix). :-). Joe -=-
ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) (02/20/91)
gaudreau@juggler.East.Sun.COM (Joe Gaudreau - Sun BOS Software) writes: - On yet another environment front, is there something that will "modify" - GEM or otherwise provide a default font other than the standard? I'd - like Emacs 3.10, GEM text windows (read Gulam), etc to have a nice, read- - able, eye saving font. The editor for Turbo-C (and in general) has many - font's that it uses and while not perfect on a color monitor - they are - quite pleasing. There is a program called FONTRIX, I think, from Charles F. Johnson which will do this. I don't know if it's PD, Shareware, or if it comes on the Codehead Utilities Disk. A program called FONTLOAD came with NeoDesk 3 which lets you change the font. I can't remember the name of the font I have loaded, but I like it better than the default font. -- Ed Krimen ............................................... ||| Video Production Major, California State University, Chico ||| INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu FREENET: al661 / | \ SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261 FIDONET: 1:119/4.0
pegram@kira.UUCP (Robert B. Pegram) (02/22/91)
From article <4352@eastapps.East.Sun.COM>, by gaudreau@juggler.East.Sun.COM (Joe Gaudreau - Sun BOS Software): > On yet another environment front, is there something that will "modify" > GEM or otherwise provide a default font other than the standard? I'd > like Emacs 3.10, GEM text windows (read Gulam), etc to have a nice, read- > able, eye saving font. The editor for Turbo-C (and in general) has many > font's that it uses and while not perfect on a color monitor - they are > quite pleasing. > > The only things I can think of is perhaps G*Dos (but I'm a new guy and > wouldn't know about this yet). > > Having written my first TOS/MIDI program, I got burned in a big way (okay, > it was only 2/3 of an hour) by trying to find out why fopen(..., "r") wouldn't > read my data files (unsigned ascii). Seems that fopen(..., "rb") is the > answer (for TC). Live and learn (it ain't unix). :-). > > Joe > -=- Two answers: Cheap: There's a free or shareware mono font substituter - I have it but have forgotten the name. It had only 1 (pleasing) font to load in place of the standard one. It uses fonts with the .fed extension. Somebody update this info please. Expensive: Get the do it all desk accessory Harlekin (2 versions, one for med rez and one for high rez - get what you need). One of it's functions is to replace the regular fonts with other monospaced fonts. NeoDesk 3.0 also supplies a program to substitute monospaced fonts - but it has been critisized as slow in this forum. Bob Pegram pegram@griffin.uvm.edu or ...!uvm-gen!pegram
andyc@hplsla.HP.COM (Andy Cassino) (02/22/91)
| | There is a program called FONTRIX, I think, from Charles F. Johnson | which will do this. I don't know if it's PD, Shareware, or if it | comes on the Codehead Utilities Disk. A program called FONTLOAD came | with NeoDesk 3 which lets you change the font. I can't remember the | name of the font I have loaded, but I like it better than the default | font. | | Ed Krimen ............................................... FONTRIX is part of CodeHead Utilities and is not PD/Shareware. It is, however, buggier than a rainforest in monsoon season (IMHO). I've had very good results with NeoDesk 3's FONTLOADer, though. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % Andy Cassino % % Hewlett-Packard - Lake Stevens Instrument Division % %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
P.A.Wilson@newcastle.ac.uk (P.A.Wilson) (02/22/91)
I will soon need to upgrade my old TOS 1.0 520STM to possibly 2.5Mb, it
has already been upgraded to 1Mb using piggy-back chips by its previous
owner. This is fine, but when I asked some companies if they would do
the bigger upgrade they threw their hands up in horror and said that due
to the piggy back mod., they could not possibly consider even taking the
top off the machine !.
I would therefore like very much to know if anyone has discovered a
company who WILL do the work, preferrably within the UK, or someone who
can supply a good kit that I could fit myself.
Pete.
Janet : P.A.Wilson@uk.ac.newcastle ARPA : P.A.Wilson@newcastle.ac.uk
UUCP : ...ukc!newcastle!P.A.Wilson
)___ Peter A. Wilson
/ \ ) Janet : P.A.Wilson@uk.ac.newcastle
/ / _/__ ARPA : P.A.Wilson@newcastle.ac.uk
/___ /_ / _ )___ UUCP : ...ukc!newcastle!P.A.Wilson