pa@hexagon.se (Peter Andersson) (03/07/91)
Hello there! I've just gotten hold of a 30 M hard disk and now here is the trouble. (The type or whatsoever is irrelevant.) Background: After formatting, the fysical bad sector marking begins but the program can't find any bad one's even though there are some fabricial faults on it. Q: How do I mark them, or more specificaly, how is the list of bad sectors built. I know where to find it but not how to use/modify it. Please email (or why not post?) any replies to: pa@hexagon.se AdvTHANKSance!
vsnyder@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Van Snyder) (03/08/91)
In article <2899@hexagon.se> pa@hexagon.se (Peter Andersson) writes: >...I've just gotten hold of a 30 M hard disk and now here is the >trouble. (The type or whatsoever is irrelevant.) > >Background: After formatting, the fysical bad sector marking begins >but the program can't find any bad one's even though there >are some fabricial faults on it. > >Q: How do I mark them, or more specificaly, >how is the list of bad sectors built. I know where >to find it but not how to use/modify it. The SCSI protocol allows one to send a defect list with the Format command. But I don't know any low-level HD formatting programs for the ST that allow you to specify the defects, so the program can put them in the SCSI Format command. Anybody out there know of such a formatting program? -- vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov ames!elroy!jato!vsnyder vsnyder@jato.uucp
hojo@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (HC Johnson) (03/08/91)
In article <2899@hexagon.se>, pa@hexagon.se (Peter Andersson) writes: > > Hello there! > > I've just gotten hold of a 30 M hard disk and now here is the > trouble. (The type or whatsoever is irrelevant.) > > Background: After formatting, the fysical bad sector marking begins > but the program can't find any bad one's even though there > are some fabricial faults on it. > > Most of the HD interfaces use the Adaptec Controllers. 4000A for MFM, 4070 for RLL. A 30 meg drive is surely Rll. The Adaptecs allow a list of bad sectors to be passed to them at format time. This is the only way to live with spectre and Minix partition. Tos tries to get by, by "testing" for bad sectors, and mapping them out. As you see its a poor scheme, at best. All my drives come with Bad sector lists, and I wrote my own formatter to utilize this information and format the drive. It has worked well. The formatter, and associated partitioner is available by EMAIL. Howard Johnson ATT BELL LABS att!lzsc!hcj hcj@lzsc.att.com
cae@sdfvm1.vnet.ibm.com (Cornelius Caesar) (03/09/91)
In article <1991Mar8.003618.25646@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> vsnyder@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Van Snyder) writes: >The SCSI protocol allows one to send a defect list with the Format >command. But I don't know any low-level HD formatting programs for the ST >that allow you to specify the defects, so the program can put them in the SCSI >Format command. Anybody out there know of such a formatting program? The easiest way to use a partially bad HD is to just mark the bad sectors in the FAT as used (FFF7 or something) so they will never be allocated again. Of course an optimizer might find them as lost clusters again... Cornelius cae@sdfvm1.vnet.ibm.com
vsnyder@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Van Snyder) (03/09/91)
In article <9103080835.AA07030@grape.ecs.clarkson.edu> cae@sdfvm1.vnet.ibm.com (Cornelius Caesar) writes: >In article <1991Mar8.003618.25646@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> > vsnyder@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Van Snyder) writes: >>The SCSI protocol allows one to send a defect list with the Format >>command. But I don't know any low-level HD formatting programs for the ST >>that allow you to specify the defects, so the program can put them in the SCSI >>Format command. Anybody out there know of such a formatting program? > >The easiest way to use a partially bad HD is to just mark the bad sectors >in the FAT as used (FFF7 or something) so they will never be allocated >again. Of course an optimizer might find them as lost clusters again... > >Cornelius cae@sdfvm1.vnet.ibm.com My disk drive has numbers like "cylinder head bytes-from-index" in the defect list that accompanied it. How do I turn these into FAT indices? I don't want to rely on high-level read\write tests to discover them, because the manufacturer applied stricter tests than one can do with ordinary I/O. I'd rather not write data where the manufacturer thinks his product is marginal, only to have it disappear without warning (that is, between being written and the first subsequent backup). -- vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov ames!elroy!jato!vsnyder vsnyder@jato.uucp
sytang@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Shoou-yu tang) (03/10/91)
In article <1991Mar8.003618.25646@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Van Snyder) writes: >In article <2899@hexagon.se> pa@hexagon.se (Peter Andersson) writes: >> >>Q: How do I mark them, or more specificaly, >>how is the list of bad sectors built. I know where >>to find it but not how to use/modify it. > >The SCSI protocol allows one to send a defect list with the Format >command. But I don't know any low-level HD formatting programs for the ST >that allow you to specify the defects, so the program can put them in the SCSI >Format command. Anybody out there know of such a formatting program? >-- If you have ICD software, then you will find the program called HDUTIL, under it there is a function called Map Bad disk setors. This will allow you to mark a sector to be bad in the FAT. And also if you used Adaptec 4070 controller, the bad sectors are map out by the card when it format the disk ( that's what I remember but not 100% certain, but do seems to recall some SCSI card map out the bad sectors so that the host sees the hard drive as no bad sectors). Tang sytang@lamar.colostate.edu
vsnyder@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Van Snyder) (03/11/91)
In article <13466@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> sytang@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Shoou-yu tang) writes: >In article <1991Mar8.003618.25646@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Van Snyder) writes: >>In article <2899@hexagon.se> pa@hexagon.se (Peter Andersson) writes: >>> >>>Q: How do I mark them, or more specificaly, >>>how is the list of bad sectors built. I know where >>>to find it but not how to use/modify it. >> >>The SCSI protocol allows one to send a defect list with the Format >>command. But I don't know any low-level HD formatting programs for the ST >>that allow you to specify the defects, so the program can put them in the SCSI >>Format command. Anybody out there know of such a formatting program? >>-- > If you have ICD software, then you will find the program called HDUTIL, under > it there is a function called Map Bad disk setors. This will allow you to mark > a sector to be bad in the FAT. And also if you used Adaptec 4070 controller, > the bad sectors are map out by the card when it format the disk ( that's what > I remember but not 100% certain, but do seems to recall some SCSI card map out > the bad sectors so that the host sees the hard drive as no bad sectors). > I've got software that lets me mark FAT entries to indicate bad clusters, and software that tries to discover which sectors are bad. But the disk manufacturer uses a more stringent test than one can do with I/O through the SCSI. I have an Adaptec 4000, and manual. It's DEFINITELY possible to tell the controller about the bad spots. The problem is, none of the *low- level* formatting programs I've tried know how to tell the controller about the manufacturer's defect list. I'd much prefer to tell the Adaptec where the bad spots are in advance, than discover there's a bad spot in something I've just spent 20 hours creating. (I do backups, but not continuously). It's the *low-level* formatting program that's got to tell the Adaptec where the manufacturer says the bad spots are. Unless somebody can provide a fool-proof (i.e. works with EVERYBODY's HD SW) algorithm for converting the "cylinder/ head/bytes-from-index" indication of bad spots into partition/cluster-number indication. BTW, marking FATs won't work the same way on Magic, GCR, Minix, etc. partitions, so telling the Adaptec seems the only reliable way. -- vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov ames!elroy!jato!vsnyder vsnyder@jato.uucp
csbrod@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod) (03/11/91)
vsnyder@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Van Snyder) writes: >I've got software that lets me mark FAT entries to indicate bad clusters, and >software that tries to discover which sectors are bad. But the disk >manufacturer uses a more stringent test than one can do with I/O through >the SCSI. I have an Adaptec 4000, and manual. It's DEFINITELY possible to >tell the controller about the bad spots. The problem is, none of the *low- >level* formatting programs I've tried know how to tell the controller about >the manufacturer's defect list. I'd much prefer to tell the Adaptec where the >bad spots are in advance, than discover there's a bad spot in something I've >just spent 20 hours creating. (I do backups, but not continuously). It's the >*low-level* formatting program that's got to tell the Adaptec where the >manufacturer says the bad spots are. Unless somebody can provide a fool-proof >(i.e. works with EVERYBODY's HD SW) algorithm for converting the "cylinder/ >head/bytes-from-index" indication of bad spots into partition/cluster-number >indication. BTW, marking FATs won't work the same way on Magic, GCR, Minix, >etc. partitions, so telling the Adaptec seems the only reliable way. I've been working on something like this, but I ended up concluding that the Adaptec 4000 has firmware bugs in it that make it impossible to transfer\ a defect list when formatting. Recently, I received indications that there might be a way to do it, but I have no details on that. Somebody out there who can tell us the tricks? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de ----------------------------------------------------------------------
bill@mwca.UUCP (Bill Sheppard) (03/12/91)
In article <2899@hexagon.se>, pa@hexagon.se (Peter Andersson) writes: > I've just gotten hold of a 30 M hard disk and now here is the > trouble. (The type or whatsoever is irrelevant.) > > Background: After formatting, the fysical bad sector marking begins > but the program can't find any bad one's even though there > are some fabricial faults on it. If it is a true SCSI drive (as opposed to MFM or RLL w/Adaptec controller) you don't need to worry about defects - SCSI is known as "perfect media", where there are spare sectors on the disk, and any bad sector is automatically remapped to one of the spare sectors. The computer has no way of knowing this is taking place - the firmware on the drive does it. To the computer, there are no bad sectors. Again, this is only true for an embedded-SCSI drive. -- ############################################################################## # Bill Sheppard -- bills@microware.com -- {uunet,sun}!mcrware!mwca!bill # # Microware Systems Corporation --- OS-9: Seven generations beyond OS/2!! # ######Opinions expressed are my own, though you'd be wise to adopt them!######
Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (03/13/91)
Distribution:World Keywords: Bad sectors Sender: Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) Comment-To: csbrod@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de Organization: Actrix Information Exchange, Wellington, New Zealand References: <13466@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> <1991Mar10.235310.8813@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> <1991Mar11.130920.20617@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 91 15:05:49 GMT In article <1991Mar11.130920.20617@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod) writes: Deleted Data: > vsnyder@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Van Snyder) writes: > I've been working on something like this, but I ended up concluding that > the Adaptec 4000 has firmware bugs in it that make it impossible to transfer\ > a defect list when formatting. Recently, I received indications that there > might be a way to do it, but I have no details on that. Somebody out there > who can tell us the tricks? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. > D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) > csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Well from what I have read, it would be very wise to Post a Article in comp.periphs.scsi. as the Guru from Adaptec (Roy Nees) or some name like that gives some very good help on Adaptec Products... -- Roger W. Sheppard 85 Donovan Rd, Kapiti New Zealand...