marco@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Marco) (05/01/91)
I have been considering buying Spectre, but I have a few questions.
First, what's the difference between GCR and 128?
What are "Mac Roms" and why would you want them?
Is Spectre 100% Mac compatible?
If anyone could answer any of thse questions it would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.
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\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (05/04/91)
In article <aV2911w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca>, marco@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Marco) writes: >I have been considering buying Spectre, but I have a few questions. >First, what's the difference between GCR and 128? The 128 gives you a Mac, but with a non-standard floppy drive. You will have to transfer all of your Mac software via modem or direct-connect. This is because the Mac's use a strange floppy protocol that cannot be emulated on the ST without additional hardware. The GCR (stands for Group Coded Record, which is the name for the strange floppy protocol) provided the additional hardware noted above. Thus, your ST floppy drive(s) will be Mac compatible. Therefore, the GCR is a more complete emulator than the 128 (only in terms of the floppy, they are equal in ability to run Mac stuff). Also, any protected software would require a GCR to work (games). >What are "Mac Roms" and why would you want them? A small explination of the Spectre is in order. The Spectre is a software program that takes an ST and a copy of the Mac OS and yields a Mac compatible. Now, for Mr. Small to be able to do this, a copy of the Mac OS is needed. That is what is contain on the Mac ROMs. The Spectre is sold as with a cartridge that accepts the Mac ROMS and plugs into your ST. This is the only legal (in terms of Apple) way of providing the Mac OS. Dave Small cannot sell Mac ROMS. In other words, you need the Mac ROMs to get around legal, not physical or practical rules. There have been pirate copies of the Spectre (128) that provide the Mac OS as a file on the disk (with no hardware needed). >Is Spectre 100% Mac compatible? It is about 99.999%. Most Mac's are not 100% Mac compatible :-) . Dave Small upgrades his stuff constantly, and updates are free. Mac ROMs are getting hard to find, as Apple has changed it's policy on selling them (apparently they were getting worried about Mac clones or something). I would secure a set of 128k Mac ROMS first, before buying either of the Spectres. I would recommend you get a GCR, since Mac software will be usable right out of the box. If you run into any of the pirated software-only versions of the Spectre 128, please do not use them. Dave Small has done some incredible things for the ST, and is currently working on some REALLY promising stuff. It would be a shame to see him go (as have so many other great ST programmers, like Tom Hudson). Either Spectre is cheap for what you are getting. Also, these pirated versions are heavily hacked (Mr. Small's code to check if the OS is in ROM has been removed from many places) and totally unreliable. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
carter@cat23.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) (05/04/91)
marco@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Marco) writes:
I have been considering buying Spectre, but I have a few questions.
First, what's the difference between GCR and 128?
What are "Mac Roms" and why would you want them?
Is Spectre 100% Mac compatible?
If anyone could answer any of thse questions it would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.
---
The GCR allows you to read and writes MAC DISKS, the 128 Cart doesn't
allows this.
You need the Mac ROMS to run the Emulator period. No ROMS No Emulation.
(If you can find MAC ROMS UNDER $300, YOUR LUCKY, I question now whether
or not this is a good approach anymore as a Classic is pretty cheapo
and you can RUN ANYTHING)
Its pretty close to 100%, but mainly cannot run games.
On a further comment. Currently there aren't any GCR's to be had anywhere.
I suspect Mr. Small is getting out of that market as ROM prices are making the
Mac option on the ST pretty rediculous, which is a smart move.
Hopefully after he dumps the emulator he can work on his 030 board full time,
which I think is more important anyway.
I have a set of ROMS if anyone wants them, for $500 bucks, brand new. :)
Let me know if you are interested.
--Gregoryjon@nabob.cc.mcgill.ca (Jonathan Carroll) (05/04/91)
In article <1991May4.045344.8317@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> carter@cat23.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes: > marco@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Marco) writes: > On a further comment. Currently there aren't any GCR's to be had anywhere. > I suspect Mr. Small is getting out of that market as ROM prices are making the > Mac option on the ST pretty rediculous, which is a smart move. > Hopefully after he dumps the emulator he can work on his 030 board full time, > which I think is more important anyway. > No, he is certainly not getting out of the market. More realeases of Spectre are on their way. He had a number of explanations for shortage of GCR's that he offered on GEnie after getting back from the show in Germany. Dumping the emulator WASN'T one of them. Sorry. > --Gregory Jon MCS
neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) (05/06/91)
In article <1991May3.141023.18062@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: ]In article <aV2911w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca], marco@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Marco) writes: ]]I have been considering buying Spectre, but I have a few questions. ]]First, what's the difference between GCR and 128? ] ]The 128 gives you a Mac, but with a non-standard floppy drive. You will have ]to transfer all of your Mac software via modem or direct-connect. This is ]because the Mac's use a strange floppy protocol that cannot be emulated on ]the ST without additional hardware. But there is a program called DOS Mounter that can be run on both Spectre 128 with version 3 software and a real Mac (with a high density drive) that will allow DOS disks to be used instead of GCR ones. No need to upgrade to GCR if you don't want to. +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 DOS disks!" ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (05/07/91)
In article <2896@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk>, neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes: >In article <1991May3.141023.18062@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: >]In article <aV2911w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca], marco@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Marco) writes: >]The 128 gives you a Mac, but with a non-standard floppy drive. You will have >]to transfer all of your Mac software via modem or direct-connect. This is >]because the Mac's use a strange floppy protocol that cannot be emulated on >]the ST without additional hardware. > >But there is a program called DOS Mounter that can be run on both Spectre 128 >with version 3 software and a real Mac (with a high density drive) that will >allow DOS disks to be used instead of GCR ones. >No need to upgrade to GCR if you don't want to. > But this would mean that any Mac software purchased would have to be modemed or null-modemed over, which was my original point. Depending upon your setup, and what hardware was available to you this may not matter. By the way, do you know how much this DOS Mounter costs? I am lucky enough to have a bunch of Macs lying around, so I was thinking of getting a Spectre 128 myself (see, I am an exception!!). -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
carter@cat23.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) (05/07/91)
In article <2896@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk> neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes: >In article <1991May3.141023.18062@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: >]In article <aV2911w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca], marco@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Marco) writes: >]]I have been considering buying Spectre, but I have a few questions. >]]First, what's the difference between GCR and 128? >] >]The 128 gives you a Mac, but with a non-standard floppy drive. You will have >]to transfer all of your Mac software via modem or direct-connect. This is >]because the Mac's use a strange floppy protocol that cannot be emulated on >]the ST without additional hardware. > >But there is a program called DOS Mounter that can be run on both Spectre 128 >with version 3 software and a real Mac (with a high density drive) that will >allow DOS disks to be used instead of GCR ones. >No need to upgrade to GCR if you don't want to. > >+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! >! ! >! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! >! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! >! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! >! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 DOS disks!" ! >+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ The only problem here is that 90% of Macs out there don't have the new Super Drives. So, at this point in time, and probably for the next year or so, a GCR would be a very viable option. That is, if you can get it, or the ROMS. I can help you out, if you need ROMS I am selling them for $500. --Gregory
neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) (05/07/91)
In article <1991May6.143909.6030@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: >In article <2896@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk>, neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes: >>But there is a program called DOS Mounter that can be run on both Spectre 128 >>with version 3 software and a real Mac (with a high density drive) that will >>allow DOS disks to be used instead of GCR ones. >>No need to upgrade to GCR if you don't want to. > >But this would mean that any Mac software purchased would have to be >modemed or null-modemed over, which was my original point. No, no, no! The point is that you can use DOS disk to transfer programs and data between Spectre 128 and genuine Macs at normal disk access speeds. > By the way, do you know how much this DOS Mounter costs? Well I dunno for sure but word is about 60 UK pounds. I have played with a demo version and it sure does work. +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 disks!" ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (05/08/91)
In article <2910@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk>, neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes: >In article <1991May6.143909.6030@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu >(Mickey Boyd) writes: >>In article <2896@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk>, neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes: >>>But there is a program called DOS Mounter that can be run on both Spectre 128 >>>with version 3 software and a real Mac (with a high density drive) that will >>>allow DOS disks to be used instead of GCR ones. >>>No need to upgrade to GCR if you don't want to. >> >>But this would mean that any Mac software purchased would have to be >>modemed or null-modemed over, which was my original point. > >No, no, no! The point is that you can use DOS disk to transfer programs >and data between Spectre 128 and genuine Macs at normal disk access speeds. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <sigh>. Ok, let's go to the store. Let's buy a piece of Mac software. We go home. Hmmm, do I have a Mac? No, but I have a Spectre 128, and that is damn close. Hmmm, ok, let's stick this disk in. Hmmm, what is that grungy noise . . . . Alternate scenario: Ok, buy the software, drive home. Hmmm, disk makes a funny noise in my (Spectre 128 equipped) ST. No problem, I'll just go over to my Mac and put it on a DOS floppy, then walk over to my ST and smuggly load in my new Mac program. What honey? Why did I buy this Spectre when I already have a Mac? Well, you see, the screen is really big . . . . NOW do you see my point? The one that might be important (either way) in the decision to purchase a Spectre 128 or Spectre GCR! The GCR is more convenient at worst, and if you do not have access to another Mac, it may be a necessity. For example, if you have a Mac at work and an ST at home, a Spectre 128 would probably be fine. Actually, if you happen to have a Syquest SQ-555 hooked to your ST, and have access to a Mac similarly equiped, you have it made. You can move stuff around at 44mb a pop. Much better. As a side note, does anyone know how to purchase the made-in-hong-kong legitimate Mac ROMS? The ones that sell for $2 over there (or something)? I saw the original post, but no followup (heehee, all this might be for naught . . ). -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
carter@cat23.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) (05/09/91)
I have the legit ROMS. I here you can also buy them from many places now, for $300 bucks. But you can't be sure they are legit. Anyway, I say, "If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, by George IT IS a duck." Just don't tell anyone about how it sounds! :) OK? --Gregory
sean@cs.hw.ac.uk (Sean Gordon) (05/09/91)
In article <1991May7.205903.1293@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: >In article <2910@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk>, neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes: >>In article <1991May6.143909.6030@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu >>(Mickey Boyd) writes: > [stuff deleted] >Actually, if you happen to have a >Syquest SQ-555 hooked to your ST, and have access to a Mac similarly >equiped, you have it made. You can move stuff around at 44mb a pop. Much >better. > Just a quick question about Syquest drives. As the Mac uses a SCSI interface (25 Pin) and the ICD host board provides a SCSI port (50 Pin) and there are such things as 25 to 50 way SCSI connectors. Is it possible to use one of the very cheap Mac Syquest drives with the above setup? Or is this a dumb question ? sean@cs.hw.ac.uk
pdel@ADS.COM (Peter Delevoryas) (05/10/91)
> Is it possible to use one of the very cheap Mac Syquest >drives with the above setup? >sean@cs.hw.ac.uk I'm presently using a syquest drive with my ST, Mac, and Digital Sampler (sound module). It is from Third Wave, a third party Mac hardware dealer. I got and ICD host adapter, stuck it in a box, and made a cable from the ICD so you could use a 50 pin SCSI connector. I go from there to an A-B box that lets me switch the drive between the ST and Mac and Sampler. --------------------- | Syquest drive | | | -------------------- | ------------- | A-B box | ------------ | | | | | | v | v ------- v ---------- | Mac | ------ | Sampler| ------- | ST | --------- ------- With this setup I can for example boot with the Mac, get into a program, then unmount the drive and boot the ST (with an ST formatted disk). Depending on the type of disk access the Mac program needs, I may or may not be able to continue processing on the Mac. But I can unmount the ST disk, and reinsert the Mac disk, and then continue processing on the Mac without rebooting. These Syquest drives are great for poor people like me who can't afford three separate hard drives. About $70 for a removable disk and you have virtually another drive. Peter D. -- login name: L1-A In real life: Peter Delevoryas In any other life: a cheap imitation
boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (05/11/91)
In article <2917@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk>, sean@cs.hw.ac.uk (Sean Gordon) writes: >In article <1991May7.205903.1293@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: >>Actually, if you happen to have a >>Syquest SQ-555 hooked to your ST, and have access to a Mac similarly >>equiped, you have it made. You can move stuff around at 44mb a pop. Much >>better. >> > >Just a quick question about Syquest drives. >As the Mac uses a SCSI interface (25 Pin) and the ICD host board >provides a SCSI port (50 Pin) and there are such things as 25 to 50 way SCSI >connectors. Is it possible to use one of the very cheap Mac Syquest >drives with the above setup? >Or is this a dumb question ? Well, since the Syquest is a SCSI device, and since the ICD host adaptor supports the Syquest, you would be even cheaper off by purchasing a bare SQ-555 mechanism and hooking it to the ICD. Then it could be used in both Mac and ST modes. Given that you can get the mech cheaper than a finished Mac product (which I would assume is true), this would be the more cost effective way to go. Alternately, you could buy the Mac unit, open it up, take off the 25pin SCSI cable, put on a 50pin, stick an ICD in there, and away you go. I am unsure if an adaptor exists, but the cables are so cheap that replacement would probably be easier (and you would then not have the adaptor connection to worry about). This is assuming that there is no Mac specific circuitry or boards in a finished Mac drive of this type (I don't think there are, just a weird 25pin cable). Of course, the SQ-555 mech uses a standard 50pin SCSI. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
tdrga@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Todd Drga) (05/11/91)
In article <1991May7.205903.1293@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>, boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: |>a Spectre 128 would probably be fine. Actually, if you happen to have a |>Syquest SQ-555 hooked to your ST, and have access to a Mac similarly |>equiped, you have it made. You can move stuff around at 44mb a pop. Much |>better. Does this actually work? I have a Syquest drive and would be very interested in transferring stuff back and forth from Macs (since it seems that the Mac is the computer-that-I-must-have-on-my-desk-to-be-cool here at UT) I would think that the disk formats would be different, since Apple tends to want to keep thinks like that to themselves, but if Syquest has a proprietary format that they use for their drive, it seems as if that wouldn't get in the way. Anyone have experience with the Syquest ST-> Mac and back? Care to share some tips? = INTERNET-> tdrga@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Todd Drga, UT Dept. of Drama) = = = = ' The dry grass will set fire to the damp grass ' = = = = African proverb brought to the Americas by slaves =
tgray@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au (Tony Gray) (05/12/91)
In article <48837@ut-emx.uucp> tdrga@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Todd Drga) writes: >In article <1991May7.205903.1293@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>, boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu >(Mickey Boyd) writes: > >|>a Spectre 128 would probably be fine. Actually, if you happen to have a >|>Syquest SQ-555 hooked to your ST, and have access to a Mac similarly >|>equiped, you have it made. You can move stuff around at 44mb a pop. Much >|>better. > >Does this actually work? I have a Syquest drive and would be very >interested in >transferring stuff back and forth from Macs (since it seems that the Mac is >the computer-that-I-must-have-on-my-desk-to-be-cool here at UT) > >I would think that the disk formats would be different, since Apple tends to >want to keep thinks like that to themselves, but if Syquest has a proprietary >format that they use for their drive, it seems as if that wouldn't get in the >way. > I think you might have missed the earlier part of the discussion - for this to work you would have to have a Spectre 128 and Macintosh ROMS (in other words, you could read a Mac-formatted syquest cartridge on the ST, but only if you were running Macintosh emulation on the ST at the time.) -- Tony Gray AARNET: tgray@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au School of Applied Computing Phone : (003) 260 366 University of Tasmania at Launceston CIS : 74010,1556 Australia
boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) (05/12/91)
In article <48837@ut-emx.uucp>, tdrga@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Todd Drga) writes: > [ do syquest 44mb cartridges for Macs work on the ST? ] > >I would think that the disk formats would be different, since Apple tends to >want to keep thinks like that to themselves, but if Syquest has a proprietary >format that they use for their drive, it seems as if that wouldn't get in the >way. > I know that Dave Small's Spectre now supports the Syquest 44mb cartridges. Thus, if you are in Spectre mode, you can use them. I would think it very unlikely that the disks would work while in ST mode, as the Mac hard disk protocol is just as weird at their floppy protocol. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+-------------------------------------