[comp.protocols.time.ntp] Potential time sync in the home

paul@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (04/05/91)

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Subject: Setting Clocks
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From: ac365@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Todd Donovan)
Date: 2 Apr 91 19:09:30 GMT
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>Or, better yet:
>
>	Have the television networks send out the time of day in addition
>	to the signals currently sent out during the vertical blanking
>	interval.  (The current signals include information for fine
>	tuning the color, and close captioning.)  Of course, this will
>	not help devices that do not have a TV tuner, such as alarm clocks.
>

I know that NBC already does send out the time of day during the
vertical blanking, and I have to believe that the other networks also
provide this information. Keep in mind that each part of the country
is on a slightly different power frequency and this will cause 
cummulative errors in clocks. This and the fact that cheaper clocks tend
to easily get off, caused NBC to implement a "network clock" so that all
affiliates had exactly the same time. Since the human factor in master
control of most stations is being eliminated, and automation
introduced, there is no one to simply look at network feeds and know
what should be on the air. Since the television day is broken
down to the second, there is no room for slippage when local stations
insert commericals or simply just link-up with the network. Thus the
need for over 200 syncronized clocks...updated each second.

As of yet, I know of no easy way for the home user to decode these
signals and use them for the setting of clocks. 



--
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Mills@udel.edu (04/06/91)

Todd,

Darn, another station heard from. Do we get to send news briefs via SMTP now?
Have you a suggested MIB for your station equipment? As a former engineer and
combo man for a motley crew of radio and tv stations in and around Ann Arbor
and Detroit, things must have changed a lot over the last twenty years. And
still the network programs start one second late, which the affiliates try
to fill with expanding promos...

First, I don't know where NBS gets the time. At the Detriot NBC affilitate
(call letters used to be WWJ) the time came down the wire (remeber the
bing-bing-bong?) and then the buttons got pushed. [we all studio buzzards
were hams, so our intercom was a Morse key and buzzer - worked great]. The
reason it was done that way was that the Western Union clock clunkers 
introduced their time corrections just before or on the hour, which led
to a clear violation of the Principle of Least Astonishment.

On your comment on mains frequency. For all of the US except Texas and
west of the Rockies, the mains are synchronized to the same frequency
and phase, as established by a WWVB receiver somewhere in Ohio. Texas
has their own system established I am told by reason of oil depletion
allowance regulations or some similar silly reason. West of the Rockies
frequency control is closed-loop and maintained automatically. On
our side the loop is apparently closed only in paw-to-knob mode. I don't
know if your reference to frequency implies you genlock to local power,
which means you could have up to a frame-jitter (do the even and odd
fields have individual timestamps (gawd)?) from true tick.

You can, of course, readily detect the timecode using a delayed-sweep
display on an oscilloscope, but, while I have not looked in a while,
the resolution of the code does not appear to be much better than 
a second anyway.

Having said all this, and aware that all three tv networks have rubidium
standard in New York which where once upon a time proposed as a ubiquitous
dissemination method for NBS time (genlock and local frame storage killed
that idea), independent WTTG in Washington still ticks the atomic second
and USNO still publishes their offsets weekly (weakly?). That's in fact
very useful if you want nanosecond time and you happen to live within
the coverage area.

Dave

clements@bbn.com (Bob Clements) (04/08/91)

>I know that NBC already does send out the time of day during the
>vertical blanking, and I have to believe that the other networks also
>provide this information.

Yeah, they do, but that doesn't mean you get it from your local
affiliate.  The time is not on a line that is normally broadcast,
like closed captions are.  It's up higher in the vertical interval.
Typically, locally generated test signals are placed there by the
time it's broadcast.

I remember some years ago that channel 5 in Boston had test
signals there but channel 9 across the border in New Hampshire
transmitted the network time code. (These are both ABC outlets.)
None of the Boston stations transmit the time code, so I dropped
the idea of building a decoder for it.

Bob Clements, K1BC, clements@bbn.com