nol2321@dsacg2.dsac.dla.mil (Jim Dunn) (08/08/90)
Greetings NetLand, I'm about to make a purchase. I need to buy two (2) new 386 pc's. What I have a little experience in computer consulting, but now that I'm about to buy one MYSELF, I'm not sure that I can be objective enough. So I would appreciate some guidance in attemping to purchase. Here is a small summary of my needs: o 386 cpu, running at 16Mhz, or 20Mhz o SuperEGA, VGA, or SuperVGA monitor o 40+ Meg harddrive o 5-1/4" and 3-1/2" High density floppy drives o (extra bay for 360K floppy drive...) o keyboard, duh? o 2400 Baud Modem, with 4800 Baud FAX if possible o 1 HP Laserjet with Postscript, or close... o 1 HP DeskJet Plus with Postscript, or close... Anyway, if anyone could give me suggestions (or have a couple that you want to sell...) Please respond, to the usenet or e-mail... Thanks! :) jim -- Jim Dunn: jdunn@dsac.dla.mil; AV 850-9713; ATT 614-238-9713; FAX 614-238-9936 U.S.Mail: P.O. Box 1007, Hebron, Ohio 43025 FTP: 131.78.1.1 /ibm.pc, 5pm-8am "For God so loved the world, that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believes on Him should NOT perish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE." -John 3:16 KJV.
CUMMINGS@S55.Prime.COM (08/17/90)
/* Written 8:46 pm Aug 8, 1990 by nol2321@dsacg2.dsac.dla.mil in S55:comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc */
/* ---------- "Re: Buying a 386, please HELP!?!" ---------- */
Here is a small summary of my needs:
o 386 cpu, running at 16Mhz, or 20Mhz
o SuperEGA, VGA, or SuperVGA monitor
o 40+ Meg harddrive
o 5-1/4" and 3-1/2" High density floppy drives
o (extra bay for 360K floppy drive...)
o keyboard, duh?
o 2400 Baud Modem, with 4800 Baud FAX if possible
o 1 HP Laserjet with Postscript, or close...
o 1 HP DeskJet Plus with Postscript, or close...
--
Jim Dunn: jdunn@dsac.dla.mil; AV 850-9713; ATT 614-238-9713; FAX 614-238-9936
U.S.Mail: P.O. Box 1007, Hebron, Ohio 43025 FTP: 131.78.1.1 /ibm.pc, 5pm-8am
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever
believes on Him should NOT perish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE." -John 3:16 KJV.
/* End of text from S55:comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc */
Lets address these one at a time:
386: I would recomend a 386SX, especially if you plan on running MS-DOS on it.
Memory upgrades will be cheaper (because you can upgrade in 1/2 the
increments a full 386 needs (16 bit memory vs 32 bit memory).
If you need a full 32 bit 386, then go with either a memory cache (32K or
64K, you probably won't notice the difference) or dual bank interleaved
memory (most cached machines run 25-33 Mhz). Your memory will act faster
than it really is because one bank can be refreshing while the other is
being accessed.
video: Go with VGA or SuperVGA. EGA is digital, and you will probably need
an anolog monitor if you ever decide to upgrade anyways. Go with
SuperVGA right away if you will be using a windowing package
(MS-WINDOWS, X-Windows, Deskview, etc.). You'll appreciate the higher
resolutions.
HD: I personally think that 40MB is small by todays standards. I bought a
60MB with my first system, and its full already! Besides, if you want to
run a UNIX on it, you'll need 100MB minimum. Be careful of the case you
buy too. Be sure you have room for expansion drives (HD, Tape Backup,
etc). I would recommend a Tower case with 4 or 5 HH slots in the front
(2 or 3 for floppies, one for Tape Backup). The desktop cases with
3 HH slots, and one FH HD slot just don't cut it when you add disk
storage.
FD: Definitely go with the 1.2MB 5 1/4" and a 1.44MB 3 1/2" drive. I don't
think you will need a 360K drive unless you are transporting software
to XT generation machines.
KB: Go with whatever feels good to you. Side functions keys, top funtions
keys, (both?). Don't underestimate the importance of feeling good about
the keyboard!
MD: 2400 bps modems are standard (V.22bis). Get MNP-5 support if you have
an old telephone switch to help with any noise problems (you'll like
the conpression too!). If you HAVE to have a FAX, get one with the
modem built in. Why waste a slot?
PRN: I'd go with a REAL postscript printer instead of a postscript addon,
but by laser only if you can afford it. And if you do get a laser,
get one with a common engine so your toner/developer/drum replacements
are easy to buy/replace. Canon engines are common, HP is the standard.
Of course these are my opinions, and are heavily influences buy my own
extravegent set of values. Good luck on your impending purchase/investment!
============================================================================
Kevin J. Cummings Prime Computer Inc.
20 Briarwood Road 500 Old Connecticut Path
Framingham, Mass. Framingham, Mass.
InterNet: CUMMINGS@S55.Prime.COM
CSNet: CUMMINGS%S55.Prime.COM@RELAY.CS.NET
UUCP: {uunet, csnet-relay}!S55.Prime.COM!CUMMINGS
Std. Disclaimer: "Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration, I've come
to the conclusion that your new defense system SUCKS..."
============================================================================mikew@proton.LCS.MIT.EDU (Michael B. Williams) (08/18/90)
In article <1249800002@S55.Prime.COM>, CUMMINGS@S55.Prime.COM writes: |> |> 386: I would recomend a 386SX, especially if you plan on running MS-DOS on it. |> Memory upgrades will be cheaper (because you can upgrade in 1/2 the |> increments a full 386 needs (16 bit memory vs 32 bit memory). |> You have GOT to be kidding. There is NO difference between so-called ``16-bit'' memory and ``32-bit'' memory; they are exactly the same thing and cost exactly the same amount. In fact, the term ``16-bit memory'' is a misnomer; it actually refers to memory that is accessed 16 bits at a time. If you access it 32 bits at a time (via the motherboard, EISA or MCA bus) it instantly and magically becomes ``32-bit memory.'' ______________________________________________________________________ Michael B. Williams | /| /| ) /| / Room 527 | / | / |--<| / | / Laboratory for Computer Science | / |/ |___)/ |/ Massachusetts Institute of Technology | Internet: mikew@athena.mit.edu 545 Technology Square | CompuServe: 73667,3264 Cambridge, MA 02139 | AT&T: (617) 253-6015
fasciano@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Massimo Fasciano) (08/18/90)
In article <1990Aug17.180307.11017@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> mikew@proton.LCS.MIT.EDU (Michael B. Williams) writes: >In article <1249800002@S55.Prime.COM>, CUMMINGS@S55.Prime.COM writes: >|> >|> 386: I would recomend a 386SX, especially if you plan on running >MS-DOS on it. >|> Memory upgrades will be cheaper (because you can upgrade in 1/2 the >|> increments a full 386 needs (16 bit memory vs 32 bit memory). >|> > >You have GOT to be kidding. There is NO difference between so-called >``16-bit'' memory and ``32-bit'' memory; they are exactly the same thing >and cost exactly the same amount. In fact, the term ``16-bit memory'' >is a misnomer; it actually refers to memory that is accessed 16 bits at >a time. If you access it 32 bits at a time (via the motherboard, EISA >or MCA bus) it instantly and magically becomes ``32-bit memory.'' > >______________________________________________________________________ >Michael B. Williams | /| /| ) /| / I think you misunderstood, he meant that on a 386SX board, you update memory 16bits at a time and on a 386DX you update it 32 bits at a time which means that on a 386SX, you can add 2 Megs of 1Meg SIMMs, which is impossible on a 386DX (1Meg or 4Meg). To put 2 Meg on a 32 bit 386DX, you have to use 2 banks of 256K SIMMs. Massimo -- Massimo Fasciano (fasciano@iro.umontreal.ca)
stdtm@uokmax.uucp (Timothy A. Melton) (08/18/90)
In article <1990Aug17.180307.11017@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> mikew@proton.LCS.MIT.EDU (Michael B. Williams) writes: >In article <1249800002@S55.Prime.COM>, CUMMINGS@S55.Prime.COM writes: >|> >|> 386: I would recomend a 386SX, especially if you plan on running >MS-DOS on it. >|> Memory upgrades will be cheaper (because you can upgrade in 1/2 the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >|> increments a full 386 needs (16 bit memory vs 32 bit memory). ^^^^^^^^^^ >|> > >You have GOT to be kidding. There is NO difference between so-called >``16-bit'' memory and ``32-bit'' memory; they are exactly the same thing >and cost exactly the same amount. In fact, the term ``16-bit memory'' >is a misnomer; it actually refers to memory that is accessed 16 bits at >a time. If you access it 32 bits at a time (via the motherboard, EISA >or MCA bus) it instantly and magically becomes ``32-bit memory.'' > Try reading the article you are responding to next time. If you upgrade a '386 DX (at least w/ DRAM) you MUST add 36 chips at a time (2MB w/ 256K chips or 4MB with 1MB chips). On an AT, you can upgrade 18 chips at a time (1 or 2MB). This is what he was clearly refering to. Try putting the flamer on 'safe' next time to prevent accidental discharge 8-). -- ____________________________________________________________________________ Timothy A Melton University of Oklahoma stdtm@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu Department of Chemical Engineering
mikew@proton.LCS.MIT.EDU (Michael B. Williams) (08/18/90)
Could you explain this further? I'm aware of at least one macine (my friend's IBM PS/2-70) that let's you add 1MB, 2MB, and (conceivably) 4MB SIMM modules in any combination that you want. On what types of machines are you restricted to upgrading in this manner? Is it a function of memory type (DIP, DRAM, SIMM)? To say that ``you add 16 bits at a time on an SX and 32 bits at a time on a DX'' seems to make sense, but I don't understand why this would be so. I guess I'm working on the assumpton that SX and DX are the same, except that the SX has to use 2 clock cycles to fetch a word, while the DX needs only one. This wouldn't affect the amount of memory supported, would it? (Somebody correct me before I make an ass out of myself again....) ______________________________________________________________________ Michael B. Williams | /| /| ) /| / Room 527 | / | / |--<| / | / Laboratory for Computer Science | / |/ |___)/ |/ Massachusetts Institute of Technology | Internet: mikew@athena.mit.edu 545 Technology Square | CompuServe: 73667,3264 Cambridge, MA 02139 | AT&T: (617) 253-6015
stdtm@uokmax.uucp (Timothy A. Melton) (08/18/90)
In article <1990Aug17.203152.20648@uokmax.uucp> stdtm@uokmax.uucp (Timothy A. Melton) writes: >'386 DX (at least w/ DRAM) you MUST add 36 chips at a time (2MB w/ 256K ^^^ >chips or 4MB with 1MB chips). On an AT, you can upgrade 18 chips at a time >(1 or 2MB). This is what he was clearly refering to. Try putting the >flamer on 'safe' next time to prevent accidental discharge 8-). Sorry, 36 256K chips=1MB, not 2MB (so 18 = 512K). Details, details! -- ____________________________________________________________________________ Timothy A Melton University of Oklahoma stdtm@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu Department of Chemical Engineering
mikew@proton.LCS.MIT.EDU (Michael B. Williams) (08/21/90)
Thanks, guys, for explaining this all to me (you e-mail respondents, too). P.S.: If it's any defense, I flunked Computer Architecture.... ______________________________________________________________________ Michael B. Williams | /| /| ) /| / Room 527 | / | / |--<| / | / Laboratory for Computer Science | / |/ |___)/ |/ Massachusetts Institute of Technology | Internet: mikew@athena.mit.edu 545 Technology Square | CompuServe: 73667,3264 Cambridge, MA 02139 | AT&T: (617) 253-6015
evil@arcturus.uucp (Wade Guthrie) (08/22/90)
CUMMINGS@S55: says > > 386: I would recomend a 386SX, Shudder. I hated the 8088 for the same reason I hate the SX. If you want 32 bits (or 16, in the case of the '88), get 32 bits (including the bus). > If you need a full 32 bit 386, then go with either a memory cache Yup! Cache makes your computer look like an un-cached machine one notch higher (20MHz looks like 25, 25MHz looks like 33). > (32K or 64K, you probably won't notice the difference) That's what I've heard. > video: Go with VGA or SuperVGA. [...] Go with > SuperVGA right away if you will be using a windowing package > (MS-WINDOWS, X-Windows, Deskview, etc.). Well. . .There isn't a standard yet for SVGA (of course, maybe there won't be one). Besides, you have to make sure that your board manufacturer has drivers for the software you want to run. > HD: I personally think that 40MB is small by todays standards. Yup. I bought an 80 MB drive and installed Windows, Word for Windows, Turbo C++, and MKS Toolkit -- about 25 MBytes have been sucked up by just those! I was dumbfounded. > run a UNIX on it, Well, if you want UNIX, that puts you in a different class of user (although, I didn't see anything in the original posting about that). You'd want a FAST disk (like a SCSI or ESDI) since UNIX is disk-based, and you'd want 8 Mbytes of memory (4 at a minimum). > Be sure you have room for expansion drives (HD, Tape Backup, > etc). I would recommend a Tower case with 4 or 5 HH slots in the front > (2 or 3 for floppies, one for Tape Backup). This is for the power user. But, then again, it's what I got too! > KB: Go with whatever feels good to you. [...] Don't underestimate > the importance of feeling good about the keyboard! I've worked on too many funky keyboards not to believe in this! Spend an extra $50 and get the Northgate Omnikey keyboards. They're solid, have good tactile feedback, and if you don't like 'em you can send 'em back (I think it's 30 days unconditional). > PRN: I'd go with a REAL postscript printer instead of a postscript > addon, If you have your heart set on postscript. I think a laserjet (mine is a IIP) with a fonts cartridge and lotsa memory is much better at a fraction of the cost. -- Wade Guthrie (evil@arcturus.UUCP) | "He gasped in terror at what sounded Rockwell International; Anaheim, CA | like a man trying to gargle while My opinions, not my employer's. | fighting off a pack of wolves" | Hitchhiker's Guide