[net.followup] "Network without news"

dyer (02/08/83)

I like to think of the ARPAnet as the network WITH:

	reliable mail system
	easy file transfer
	remote login

mark (02/09/83)

You are both wrong!  The ARPANET has news, in fact several ARPANET sites
are on USENET, and some news is transferred over ARPANET links.  (However,
a lot of the ARPANET sites seem to think that mailing lists are somehow
better than the concept of news, and I have given up on trying to convince
them otherwise.)

Anyone who has been on the ARPANET in the last month knows that ARPANET mail
is often anything but reliable.  Not that UUCP mail is any better, but mail
in general likes to fall on the floor, even on the ARPANET.  File transfer
on the ARPANET is not exactly what I'd call convenient either - you have to
sit there and watch the files get transferred (yawn); and you have to have
a valid remote login and password on many sites, even to send your friend a
file!  (Make that ESPECIALLY to send your friend a file - the anonymous login
hack only works for retrieving public files.)

What the ARPANET does give you is high bandwidth connections, reasonable
software (most of the time), and reasonable remote login at high baud rates.
Also, somebody else is paying the phone bills.  But it's a very expensive
network to join, and you have to get the Dept of Defense to approve you,
so we average joes (even at Bell Labs) can't get on.

This is not to defend UUCP, of course.

trt (02/11/83)

References: utah-cs.1356

Uucp is not the place to add 'a mail protocol'.
Nor should uucp have 'a news protocol',
a 'uusend protocol', and so on.

The *mail* program should manage an end-to-end protocol.
Uux's job is to deliver a file to a process, not to guarantee tha
that the process executes correctly.

I heard Eric Allman's talk on sendmail at UNICOM,
and concluded that his mailer still depends on:
	The existence of an 'rmail' program at each site.
	Sufficient disk space to hold various spooling files.
	No machine crashes during the uux->rmail->uux handoff.
Otherwise, mail gets dropped on the floor.

Uucp should be enhanced to do many things: routing, faster transfers,
fewer errors.  But errors do happen, and any program which uses
uucp must account for them or mail, news, or whatever
will 'fall through the cracks.'
	Tom Truscott