reisert@ricks.enet.dec.com (Jim Reisert) (11/22/90)
VNS TECHNOLOGY WATCH: [Mike Taylor, VNS Correspondent]
===================== [Nashua, NH, USA ]
Conversations with Fred
Middlesex News, Framingham, 11/6/90.
via BITNET Computer Underground Digest
The story is bizarre but true, swears Herb Rothman. Seems Prodigy,
the network run as a joint venture by Sears and IBM, wouldn't let
somebody post a message in a coin-collecting forum that he was
looking for a particular Roosevelt dime for his collection. Upset,
the man called "member services." The representative told him the
message violated a Prodigy rule against mentioning another user in a
public message. "What user?" the man asked. "Roosevelt Dime," the
rep replied. "That's not a person!" the man said. "Yes he is, he's a
halfback for the Chicago Bears," the rep shot back.
Rothman is one of those alleged compu-terrorists Prodigy claims is
harassing other users and companies that advertise on the service by
sending out thousands upon thousands of increasingly hostile
messages in protest of a Prodigy plan to begin charging users who
send more than 30 e-mail messages a month. Rothman and the others
say they sent very polite messages to people (Penny Hay of Los
Angeles says her messages were even approved by the Prodigy legal
department) telling them about the new fees and urging them to
protest.
What's really happening is that Prodigy is proving its complete
arrogance and total lack of understanding of the dynamics of on-line
communication. They just don't get it. People are NOT going to spend
nearly $130 a year just to see the weather in Oregon or order trips
to Hawaii.
Even the computerphobes Prodigy wants to attract quickly learn the
real value of the service is in finding new friends and holding
intelligent "discussions" with others across the country.
But Prodigy blithely goes on censoring everything meant for public
consumption, unlike other nationwide services (or even
bulletin-board systems run out of some teenager's bedroom).
Rothman's story is not the only one about capricious or just plain
stupid censoring. Dog fanciers can't use the word "bitch" when
talking about their pets, yet the service recently ran an advice
column all about oral sex.
So when the supposed technology illiterates Prodigy thinks make up
its user base managed to get around this through the creation of
private mail "lists" (and, in fact, many did so at the urging of
Prodigy itself!), Prodigy started complaining of "e-mail hogs,"
quietly announced plans to levy charges for more than a minute
number of e-mail messages each month and finally, simply canceled
the accounts of those who protested the loudest!
And now we are watching history in the making, with the nation's
first nationwide protest movement organized almost entirely by
electronic mail (now don't tell Prodigy this, but all those people
they kicked off quickly got back onto the system -- Prodogy allows
up to six users per household account, and friends simply loaned
their empty slots to the protest leaders).
It's truly amazing how little faith Prodigy has in the ability of
users to behave themselves. Other systems have "sysops" to keep
things in line, but rarely do they have to pull messages. Plus,
Prodigy is just being plain dumb. Rothman now has a mailing list of
about 1,500. That means every time he sends out one of his
newsletters on collectibles, he sends 1,500 e-mail messages, which,
yes, costs more for Prodigy to send over long-distance lines and
store in its central computers. But if they realized their users are
generally mature, rather than treating them as 4-year-olds, Rothman
could post just one message in a public area, that everybody could
see.
Is this any way to run an on-line system? Does Prodigy really want
to drive away the people most inclined to use the service -- and see
all those ads that pop up at the bottom of the screen? Prodigy may
soon have to do some accounting to the folks at IBM and Sears, who
by most accounts have already poured at least $750 million into
"this thing."
{Contributed by Wes Plouff}
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"The opinions expressed here in no way represent the views of Digital
Equipment Corporation."
James J. Reisert Internet: reisert@ricks.enet.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corp. UUCP: ...decwrl!ricks.enet!reisert
77 Reed Road
Hudson, MA 01749-2895F0O@psuvm.psu.edu (11/24/90)
In article <3493@ryn.esg.dec.com>, reisert@ricks.enet.dec.com (Jim Reisert) says: > The story is bizarre but true, swears Herb Rothman. Seems Prodigy, > the network run as a joint venture by Sears and IBM, wouldn't let > somebody post a message in a coin-collecting forum that he was > looking for a particular Roosevelt dime for his collection. Upset, > the man called "member services." The representative told him the > message violated a Prodigy rule against mentioning another user in a > public message. "What user?" the man asked. "Roosevelt Dime," the > rep replied. "That's not a person!" the man said. "Yes he is, he's a > halfback for the Chicago Bears," the rep shot back. This is certainly a bit paranoid of Prodigy. I can understand since Prodigy is more of a family system, that they would want to be careful, but on the other hand CompuServe also has kids on it. I do hope Prodigy will relax their censorship a bit. > Rothman is one of those alleged compu-terrorists Prodigy claims is > harassing other users and companies that advertise on the service by > sending out thousands upon thousands of increasingly hostile > messages in protest of a Prodigy plan to begin charging users who > send more than 30 e-mail messages a month. Rothman and the others > say they sent very polite messages to people (Penny Hay of Los > Angeles says her messages were even approved by the Prodigy legal > department) telling them about the new fees and urging them to > protest. Why would he want to protest? I've heard they want to charge $0.10 for every email message over 30 a month. What's wrong with this? Think about it, you're only paying ten something *a month* to use their service; Compuserve is $12 an hour! Another way of looking at it is the $12/hr breaks down to $0.10 every 30 seconds. So, even if you left Prodigy, where could you go to get a better deal? I think all these people are making a big fuss over nothing. > What's really happening is that Prodigy is proving its complete > arrogance and total lack of understanding of the dynamics of on-line > communication. They just don't get it. People are NOT going to spend > nearly $130 a year just to see the weather in Oregon or order trips > to Hawaii. That's right, at least I hope they don't! Wether it's worth it or not depends on how much you use the system. If you're on more than 2 hours a month, then it's cheaper than CompuServe. Of course CompuServe has more services, but it all comes down to what YOU really need. [...stuff deleted...] > Is this any way to run an on-line system? Does Prodigy really want > to drive away the people most inclined to use the service -- and see > all those ads that pop up at the bottom of the screen? Prodigy may > soon have to do some accounting to the folks at IBM and Sears, who > by most accounts have already poured at least $750 million into > "this thing." > {Contributed by Wes Plouff} The ads are a pain, but at $10 *a month* they have to make up the difference somehow. I think the bottom line is, if you don't like the system, then go to some other system. [Tim] ---------- "Operator, can you give me the number for 911?" - Homer Simpson
roy%cybrspc@cs.umn.edu (Roy M. Silvernail) (11/25/90)
F0O@psuvm.psu.edu writes: [about Prodigy] > Why would he want to protest? I've heard they want to charge $0.10 > for every email message over 30 a month. What's wrong with this? The information I have seen is that Prodigy will be charging $0.25/message over the 30 allowed per month. What's wrong? Consider that many Prodigy users, unable to carry on discussions of their choice in public forums, have formed mailing lists (some at the explicit behest of Prodigy itself). These mailing lists can number in the hundreds of recipients, and their structure is such that when each participant sends a message to the list, the service expands it to _individual_messages_to_ each_list_member_! That adds up to a _lot_ of e-mail. > Think about it, you're only paying ten something *a month* to use > their service; Compuserve is $12 an hour! Another way of looking > at it is the $12/hr breaks down to $0.10 every 30 seconds. So, > even if you left Prodigy, where could you go to get a better deal? > I think all these people are making a big fuss over nothing. Personally, I have seen the Prodigy demo, played about briefly with the service, and found it lacking. I also used to subscribe to Compu$erve, until the first bill came. (Alaska access is even higher than the Contiguous U.S.) From what I was able to see, Prodigy offers very little that would interest someone who's used to Usenet. A better deal? Frankly, I don't see much of a deal at all with Prodigy. To me, Prodigy looks like the Network TV of online services. > The ads are a pain, but at $10 *a month* they have to make up > the difference somehow. So... scoot up the rates they charge the advertisers a little, and make the system available without charge. If you're going to act like Network TV, go the whole way. > I think the bottom line is, if you don't like the system, then > go to some other system. I believe people will do just that. Certainly, there will be a new supply of Prodigy users (many of whom got the startup kit with their new PS/1) coming online, but as those folks with the desire become more network-literate, they'll move on to more productive services. As for me, I _don't_ "gotta get this thing." -- Roy M. Silvernail |+| roy%cybrspc@cs.umn.edu |+| #define opinions ALL_MINE; main(){float x=1;x=x/50;printf("It's only $%.2f, but it's my $%.2f!\n",x,x);} "This is cyberspace." -- Peter da Silva :--: "...and I like it here!" -- me
sichermn@beach.csulb.edu (Jeff Sicherman) (11/25/90)
Prodigy bashers may be interested in knowing that Genie has a new Star*Services arrangement which supplies basic services like Prodigy (text-only though, non-graphical) for a flat monthly fee of $4.95. It doen not include access to the computer forums (the meter ticks at normal hourly rates if you enter them) or download. I have a computer readable 'flyer' announcing it but hesitate to post here due to length. Unless the demand gets out of hand, send me mail and I will return a copy to anyone. Jeff Sicherman
hshaw@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Hubert Shaw) (11/26/90)
F0O@psuvm.psu.edu writes: >In article <3493@ryn.esg.dec.com>, reisert@ricks.enet.dec.com (Jim Reisert) >says: >> Rothman is one of those alleged compu-terrorists Prodigy claims is >> harassing other users and companies that advertise on the service by >> sending out thousands upon thousands of increasingly hostile >> messages in protest of a Prodigy plan to begin charging users who >> send more than 30 e-mail messages a month. Rothman and the others >> say they sent very polite messages to people (Penny Hay of Los >> Angeles says her messages were even approved by the Prodigy legal >> department) telling them about the new fees and urging them to >> protest. > Why would he want to protest? I've heard they want to charge $0.10 > for every email message over 30 a month. What's wrong with this? > Think about it, you're only paying ten something *a month* to use > their service; Compuserve is $12 an hour! Another way of looking > at it is the $12/hr breaks down to $0.10 every 30 seconds. So, > even if you left Prodigy, where could you go to get a better deal? > I think all these people are making a big fuss over nothing. There is an error here. The charge is $.25 per email after the 30 free per month. Why protest? Another thing not mentioned is that email is limited to 4 Prodigy pages, which is equivalent to about ONE typed page. To write a reasonably sized letter would require that it be broken up into >1 email letters. This would make the price of one email letter >=$.50 instead of $.25. One can easily see how this can become exhorbitant. Hubert Shaw Stanford University inet: hshaw@neon.stanford.edu
elund@pro-graphics.cts.com (Eric W. Lund) (11/26/90)
In-Reply-To: message from F0O@psuvm.psu.edu
I've used Prodigy for a year, and the only thing it really had going for it
was the unlimited E-MAIL. The protests from Rothman and other irate users are
not simply about the E-MAIl, but about censorship. I have had many letters
"rejected" for it's content, with little explanation as to why. And then
someone else later gets a letter posted making the same point I was trying to
make. Prodigy officials are incapable of handling its users -- they treat us
like children. Any discussion about this treatment is forbidden. So, the
users must resort to discussing things in private. Please note that these
letters are four "pages" in length. A page, to Prodigy, is 40 characters wide
and about ten lines long. Not much you can pack in a page. And at $.25 a
shot, this kills freedom of expression on Prodigy. We can't post publically
due to censorship, and we can't post privately due to the excessive charges.
The real reason for the charge is to pay for the new Tymnet access lines they
are getting, and since %90 of the mail is made by %10 of the users, they
decided to punish the %10. I've talked with many "non-mail active" users, and
it turns out they simply aren't active at all. Prodigy wants to make money
off of people who are too lazy to write "cancel" on the bill. We are
protesting because the email charge is just another form of censorship that
the Prodigy diplomats enjoy imposing. I don't know what they're afraid of,
but it should be the protesters. We have every right to threaten their
business in order to get what we want. We are disatisfied customers. Sure,
we could just leave, but isn't it better first to try to become a satisfied
customer? I have informed Prodigy of my planned cancellation if they do not
stop the proposed implementation of email charges. They are lucky, I'm not
one of the activists who plan to stay on Prodigy, call the Tymnet lines, and
make Prodigy lose money in a matter of hours. (At $2.00/hour, in six hours
Prodigy would be paying more to keep the user than the user pays!)
Anyhow ... I haven't had a babble in a while. I can rest now.
Eric W. Lund #==== ARPA/DDN: pro-graphics!elund@nosc.mil
Friend, Countryman, Ears | __ Internet: elund@pro-graphics.cts.com
___________________________________| < \ UUCP: ...crash!pro-graphics!elund
PRO-GRAPHICS: "It's better than | > > < | ProLine: elund@pro-graphics
a sharp stick in the eye." ! <__/.<_/\_>.|__________. Prodigy: xcbr22bhenry@garp.mit.edu (Henry Mensch) (11/26/90)
hshaw@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Hubert Shaw) wrote: ->Why protest? Another thing not mentioned is that email is limited to 4 ->Prodigy pages, which is equivalent to about ONE typed page. not only that, but *P* continues to promote the service to non-subscribers as a flat-fee service (obviously deceptive). *P* just recently told their subscribers about the upcoming change in e-mail arrangements (they were very good at not answering questions from users when asked about the new charge). # Henry Mensch / <henry@garp.mit.edu> / E40-379 MIT, Cambridge, MA # <hmensch@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay> / <henry@tts.lth.se> / <mensch@munnari.oz.au> # via X.400: S=mensch; OU=informatik; P=tu-muenchen; A=dbp; C=de