[comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc] question about dos

yun@eng.umd.edu (Dragon Taunter) (11/27/90)

I have been handed down an old AT with 512K ram.  It has a full hard
disk which I do not want to overwrite.  How do I upgrade to a newer dos?
I suspect that there is more to it than copying over everything in /DOS

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joris@tnosoes.izf.tno.nl (Joris Linssen) (11/27/90)

yun@eng.umd.edu (Dragon Taunter) writes:

>I have been handed down an old AT with 512K ram.  It has a full hard
>disk which I do not want to overwrite.  How do I upgrade to a newer dos?
>I suspect that there is more to it than copying over everything in /DOS

Well, this is supposed to be easy:

1. Boot your computer from floppy with the new DOS version.
2. After confirming date and time enter SYS A: C: from the command line. 
   This will transfer two hidden files from floppy to hard disk.
3. Copy the DOS utility files from A: to the system subdirectory on your hard 
   disk, for example C:\DOS
4. Say a quick prayer and reboot you computer from hard disk. Normally this 
   works (but then, when does something work normally in a DOS environment :-),
   but should a problem occur, you can always restore your old version with the
   same procedure. 
5. In case of trouble contact your local DOS whizard,    

								good luck,
								    Jori$.
===============================================================================
Joris Linssen
TNO Institute for Perception
P.O. Box 23          		Phone : +31 34 63 562 11
3769 ZG  Soesterberg    	E-mail: tnosoes!joris@mcvax.cwi.nl
The Netherlands         	    or: joris@izf.tno.nl
===============================================================================

cctr132@canterbury.ac.nz (11/28/90)

In article <1427@tnosoes.izf.tno.nl>, joris@tnosoes.izf.tno.nl 
(Joris Linssen) writes:

> yun@eng.umd.edu (Dragon Taunter) writes:
> 
>>I have been handed down an old AT with 512K ram.  It has a full hard
>>disk which I do not want to overwrite.  How do I upgrade to a newer dos?
>>I suspect that there is more to it than copying over everything in /DOS
> 
> Well, this is supposed to be easy:
> 
> 1. Boot your computer from floppy with the new DOS version.
> 2. After confirming date and time enter SYS A: C: from the command line. 
>    This will transfer two hidden files from floppy to hard disk.
> 3. Copy the DOS utility files from A: to the system subdirectory on your hard 
>    disk, for example C:\DOS
> 4. Say a quick prayer and reboot you computer from hard disk. Normally this 
>    works (but then, when does something work normally in a DOS environment :-),
>    but should a problem occur, you can always restore your old version with 
>    the same procedure. 
> 5. In case of trouble contact your local DOS whizard,    

Good advice *EXCEPT* step 2 should also include the instruction:
         COPY A:COMMAND.COM C:\
This definitely needs to be done up to (MS) DOS 3.3 (some OEM versions may 
have SYS copy COMMAND.COM automatically) - don't know about DOS 4, as have
never installed it.

Without copying the new version of COMMAND.COM to your hard disk, you will get 
a "Bad or missing command interpreter", or some such, error message.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Nick FitzGerald, PC Applications Consultant, CSC, Uni of Canterbury, N.Z. 
 Internet: n.fitzgerald@canterbury.ac.nz            Phone: (64)(3) 642-337 

p2t80b@suns01.Nowhere (Wolfgang Grimm) (11/28/90)

In article <1990Nov26.172206.244@eng.umd.edu> yun@eng.umd.edu (Dragon Taunter) writes:
>I have been handed down an old AT with 512K ram.  It has a full hard
>disk which I do not want to overwrite.  How do I upgrade to a newer dos?
>I suspect that there is more to it than copying over everything in /DOS
>

I don't know what OS you're running on that AT. But if you're installing
DOS 4.01, DR DOS 5.0 or some other new DOS they will overwrite the old
system files. But to be on safe side I'll suggest you make a backup of
the hard disk. (You should do it already on a regular basis)


      Wolfgang.
-- 
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		-- Ed Moran, Covina, California
-- 
=============================================================================
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 "Yes, but not yet." -- The Doctor and Seth, "The Horns of Nimon".

poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger) (11/29/90)

In article <1990Nov28.131211.10020@canterbury.ac.nz> cctr132@canterbury.ac.nz writes:
>In article <1427@tnosoes.izf.tno.nl>, joris@tnosoes.izf.tno.nl 
>(Joris Linssen) writes:
>
>> yun@eng.umd.edu (Dragon Taunter) writes:
>> 
>>>I have been handed down an old AT with 512K ram.  It has a full hard
>>>disk which I do not want to overwrite.  How do I upgrade to a newer dos?
>>>I suspect that there is more to it than copying over everything in /DOS
>> 
>> Well, this is supposed to be easy:
>> 
>> 1. Boot your computer from floppy with the new DOS version.
>> 2. After confirming date and time enter SYS A: C: from the command line. 
>>    This will transfer two hidden files from floppy to hard disk.
>> 3. Copy the DOS utility files from A: to the system subdirectory on your hard 
>>    disk, for example C:\DOS
>> 4. Say a quick prayer and reboot you computer from hard disk. Normally this 
>>    works (but then, when does something work normally in a DOS environment :-),
>>    but should a problem occur, you can always restore your old version with 
>>    the same procedure. 
>> 5. In case of trouble contact your local DOS whizard,    
>
>Good advice *EXCEPT* step 2 should also include the instruction:
>         COPY A:COMMAND.COM C:\
>This definitely needs to be done up to (MS) DOS 3.3 (some OEM versions may 
>have SYS copy COMMAND.COM automatically) - don't know about DOS 4, as have
>never installed it.
>
>Without copying the new version of COMMAND.COM to your hard disk, you will get 
>a "Bad or missing command interpreter", or some such, error message.
>

I is possible that you will need to use Norton Utilities or something similar
ro make sure there is enough contiguous space for the two new boot files that
must reside in contiguous blocks at the beginning of the disk. Since the new
DOS has larger boot files (probably), and the disk blocks after the existing
boot files are probably being used by other files, then sys C: will probably
fail.

Russ Poffenberger               DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com
Schlumberger Technologies       UUCP:   {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen
1601 Technology Drive		CIS:	72401,276
San Jose, Ca. 95110             (408)437-5254

cctr132@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (11/29/90)

Sorry about the extensive quoting of previous posts, but it kind of sets the
scene.

In article <1990Nov28.223852.12623@sj.ate.slb.com>, poffen@sj.ate.slb.com 
(Russ Poffenberger) writes:

> In article <1990Nov28.131211.10020@canterbury.ac.nz> cctr132@canterbury.ac.nz
writes:
>>In article <1427@tnosoes.izf.tno.nl>, joris@tnosoes.izf.tno.nl 
>>(Joris Linssen) writes:
>>
>>> yun@eng.umd.edu (Dragon Taunter) writes:
>>> 
>>>>I have been handed down an old AT with 512K ram.  It has a full hard
>>>>disk which I do not want to overwrite.  How do I upgrade to a newer dos?
>>>>I suspect that there is more to it than copying over everything in /DOS
>>> 
>>> Well, this is supposed to be easy:
>>> 
>>> 1. Boot your computer from floppy with the new DOS version.
>>> 2. After confirming date and time enter SYS A: C: from the command line. 
>>>    This will transfer two hidden files from floppy to hard disk.
>>> 3. Copy the DOS utility files from A: to the system subdirectory on your hard 
>>>    disk, for example C:\DOS
>>> 4. Say a quick prayer and reboot you computer from hard disk. Normally this 
>>>    works (but then, when does something work normally in a DOS environment :-),
>>>    but should a problem occur, you can always restore your old version with 
>>>    the same procedure. 
>>> 5. In case of trouble contact your local DOS whizard,    
>>
>>Good advice *EXCEPT* step 2 should also include the instruction:
>>         COPY A:COMMAND.COM C:\
>>This definitely needs to be done up to (MS) DOS 3.3 (some OEM versions may 
>>have SYS copy COMMAND.COM automatically) - don't know about DOS 4, as have
>>never installed it.
>>
>>Without copying the new version of COMMAND.COM to your hard disk, you will 
>>get a "Bad or missing command interpreter", or some such, error message.
>>
> 
> I is possible that you will need to use Norton Utilities or something similar
> ro make sure there is enough contiguous space for the two new boot files that
> must reside in contiguous blocks at the beginning of the disk. Since the new
> DOS has larger boot files (probably), and the disk blocks after the existing
> boot files are probably being used by other files, then sys C: will probably
> fail.

This whole area is shrouded in myth/mystery.  As I understand it (and I 
may well be wrong), Russ is correct for versions of DOS pre-3.0, and 
possibly for 3.0 (maybe even 3.1?), but somewhere around ver 3.0/3.1 MS 
reorganized the code of IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS so the file-handling calls
were loaded earlier (first?) than in previous versions.  This allowed the
system files to be non-contiguous, after a certain portion of them had 
been loaded.  It may also have removed the requirement of MSDOS.SYS being 
the second entry in the root directory of the boot disk - I'm not so sure 
about this.

Confusion over what has to be where on a system disk, and how to insure 
that all is right are frequently the source of questions to this and related 
groups.  (A couple of months back someone advised an inquirer with a 
question similar to the poster who started this discussion, that s/he would 
*have* to low-level format their disk.)

Anyone who knows the full story care to throw some light on this??

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Nick FitzGerald, PC Applications Consultant, CSC, Uni of Canterbury, N.Z. 
 Internet: n.fitzgerald@csc.canterbury.ac.nz        Phone: (64)(3) 642-337 

userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell) (11/29/90)

In article <1427@tnosoes.izf.tno.nl>, joris@tnosoes.izf.tno.nl (Joris Linssen) writes:
>yun@eng.umd.edu (Dragon Taunter) writes:
>
>>I have been handed down an old AT with 512K ram.  It has a full hard
>>disk which I do not want to overwrite.  How do I upgrade to a newer dos?
>>I suspect that there is more to it than copying over everything in /DOS
>
>Well, this is supposed to be easy:
>
>1. Boot your computer from floppy with the new DOS version.
>2. After confirming date and time enter SYS A: C: from the command line.
>   This will transfer two hidden files from floppy to hard disk.
 
.    I think an important step was omitted here. SYS transfers only the two
hidden files, as Joris states, but it soes NOT transfer COMMAND.COM, which
is necessary for the computer to boot. It isn't good enough to have it in
a subdirectory (e.g. \DOS): it must be in the root directory unless you
have specified a different command processor in CONFIG.SYS. So, add step
 
2.5 Copy COMMAND.COM from the floppy to the root directory of the hard disk.
 
.    If you omit this, when you boot you will likely see a message about
a bad or missing COMMAND.COM.
 
.    If the disk is REALLY full, you may need to make room for the files
by deleting some things, because DOS is constantly getting bigger. Starting
somewhere in the version 3.x range, it was no longer necessary to have
space for the hidden files at the START of the disk: they could be non-
contiguous, as long as the directory entries were at the start of the
root directory. For older versions, you had to clean up the beginning of
the disk.
 
>3. Copy the DOS utility files from A: to the system subdirectory on your hard
>   disk, for example C:\DOS
>4. Say a quick prayer and reboot you computer from hard disk. Normally this
>   works (but then, when does something work normally in a DOS environment :-),
>   but should a problem occur, you can always restore your old version with the
>   same procedure.
>5. In case of trouble contact your local DOS whizard,
>
>                                                                good luck,
>                                                                    Jori$.
 
Good luck^2.
 
Dave Halliwell
#! r