skumar@cbnewsh.att.com (swaminathan.ravikumar) (12/07/90)
I am trying to build a 386 IBM compatible machine and I would like hear experiences and things to avoid from people who have done so. Also recommendations on mail order companies would be appreciated. What features should I look for before I buy the motherboard (like LIM support)? Thanks. -- ravi skumar@hocus.att.com
smsmith@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M. Smith) (12/07/90)
ravi (skumar@hocus.att.com) writes: >I am trying to build a 386 IBM compatible machine and I would >like hear experiences and things to avoid from people who have >done so. Also recommendations on mail order companies would be >appreciated. Is there any reason that you don't want to buy a complete system from a mail order company? You can't really save much money by building one yourself, and the risks and hassle involved might easily outweigh the benefits. A couple weeks ago someone on the net said they wanted to build their own 386 because they wanted to learn more about PC's and to get the experience; they also pointed out that they realized they weren't saving that much money, but they wanted to "do it themselves" to find out more about how systems work. That to me is a good reason for wanting to build own's own computer; but I personally don't think one should do it to try to save money--especially if you're a novice. Here's an example of what I mean: 386-33 motherboard, 128k (25ns) SRAM, $ 900 (?) AMI BIOS, C & T chip set, quality 6-layer construction, 1 year parts and labor 4 MEG RAM (80ns) $ 240 (?) TEAC 1.2M and 1.44M floppies $ 130 Micropolis 161 MEG HD (150,000 MTBFR) $ 899 Adaptec 64k caching controller $ 169 Sony 1304 (.25, non-interlaced) $ 849 *and* Orchid ProDesigner II w/512k I/O card (1 parallel/2 ser/1 game) $ 29 Case, power supply, *good* keyboard $ 225 (?) DOS 4.01 $ 65 various shipping charges/cables/misc. $ 50 (?) TOTAL: $3556 These are actual or approximate street prices for *quality* name brand components. These are also the same components which EPS Technologies puts in its 386-33 system, and that company sells the bundled package for $3750. Plus they have free lifetime tech support (how much money will you spend just calling around to get all your parts?), and they, like other companies, have a 60 day money back guarantee and 1 year parts and labor. Yes, yes, yes...you can put together a *cheaper* system by buying *cheaper* components--but remember, you get what you pay for. You can spend less money an a less reliable drive than the Micropolis, but hard drive failure is one of the major causes of system malfunction. Or you can save a few hundred dollars by buying an interlaced 1024x768 .28 dpi monitor with a cheap interlacing board, but your graphics performance will suffer dramatically. And, in fact, you can buy a cheap power supply, cheap keyboard, cheap motherboard, etc., but you will end up with a *cheap* system (and I don't mean just inexpensive!). So you might spend ~$2700 for a similar system, but you will also find mail order companies that put together the same cheap components and sell them for ~$3000, so you're still not saving that much if you go that route anyway. And instead of being able to deal with just one company if something goes wrong, you deal with a number of manufacturers. Let's say that you have hard drive problems with your home built system. If you call your hard drive supplier he may not know what is wrong, so he might refer you to the manufacturer or to the controller card supplier. So you call your controller supplier and *he* says "hmmm...sounds like a hard drive problem to me." Okay, okay...so you have an IDE drive with the controller built in...well, the same thing applies to the monitor and the video card: Monitor retailer: "I'm not sure what's causing that problem; sounds like your video card's drivers are doing something funny." Video card retailer: "Check with your monitor manufacturer to see if you can get the monitor exchanged." And what happens if one of the components malfunctions in such a way that it causes damage to another component? No warranty is going to cover *that*; but a mail order company's warranty covers things like that. Then there's the compatibility to worry about. A good mail order company tests its equipment to be sure that it is both compatible with different operating systems (DOS, Unix, OS/2) and that each of the components works well with the other components. How do you know that you will even be able to put all the pieces together when they arrive? I know that sounds absurd, but just read a few PC Magazine reviews to find out how some mail order companies had to do some major tinkering to this!!! I'm talking about rerouting wires across the mother- board's slots, and even drilling holes for screws. There was even a review on a system that claimed to have a certain number of free slots on the motherboard, but the case was built in such a way that they were completely inaccessible unless you took some tin snips and cut off part of the back of the case! (And then there was the person who had a motherboard short out on the *case* because it wouldn't fit right.) So I guess a person has to be careful about ordering a cheap, prepackaged system from a mail order company as well. IMHO, this is why a person should buy an FCC Class "B" machine if at all possible. It is a hassle for a company to get the "B" rating, so usually they make sure that it's a *darn good* package before they submit it for testing because once it pasts the test, the mail order company cannot (legally) replace any components in the system. Many companies (like Zeos) will basically put together the parts that they can get *cheapest* from the various manufacturers. So they can offer better prices, but they can never advertise specific components since they change the components so often. Anyway, I'm not saying that you *shouldn't* build your own 386; but you *should* weigh the options heavily before deciding to do so. S. "Stevie" Smith \ + / <smsmith@hpuxa. \+++++/ " #*&<-[89s]*(k#$@-_=//a2$]'+=.(2_&*%>,,@ ircc.ohio-state. \ + / {7%*@,..":27g)-=,#*:.#,/6&1*.4-,l@#9:-) " edu> \ + / BTW, WYSInaWYG \ + / --witty.saying.ARC
iverson@xstor.UUCP (Tim Iverson) (12/11/90)
In article <1990Dec7.042458.7275@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu> smsmith@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M. Smith) writes: >ravi (skumar@hocus.att.com) writes: > >>I am trying to build a 386 IBM compatible machine and I would >>like hear experiences and things to avoid from people who have >>done so. [...] > >Is there any reason that you don't want to buy a complete >system from a mail order company? You can't really save >much money by building one yourself, Actuall, it's possible to save quite a bit of money - in March I put together a 25Mhz, 4MB, color SVGA/multisync, DOS/Unix system for $1600. If you count the $ I got for selling off the old 286, it comes to $1000. [BTW, this is a high-quality clone, not some cheap AMI/C&T knockoff. :-] Of course, I have alot of friends in the industry, so most of the parts were obtained by trading favors, but it's a true roll-your-own 386 clone. >and the risks and >hassle involved might easily outweigh the benefits. Actually, if you know what you're doing, there are fewer risks doing it yourself than there are buying a complete product. Most vendor's salesnoids don't seem to know or understand anything about compatibility - I've heard lots of sales stories that run kinda like this: customer: Will X work with Y in my system?, salesjerk: I don't know - I'll check with the engineer. salesjerk puts customer on hold and twiddle thumbs for 10 seconds salesjerk: Yes. We tested it and it works fine. You can protect yourself from these sales-animals by apropriate application of $$; i.e. buy from a large reputable firm that doesn't seem to be in a price war. Price and quality are kinda like speed and memory in program: you've got to spend one to get the other. > [... lotsa reasons not to build your own if you don't know how ...] >Anyway, I'm not saying that you *shouldn't* build your own >386; but you *should* weigh the options heavily before deciding >to do so. I agree with you wholeheartedly on this matter. If you don't know *exactly* what you want down to the positioning of the screw holes on the motherboard, then you don't know enough to build a clone you'll be happy with. >S. "Stevie" Smith <smsmith@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu> - Tim Iverson uunet!xstor!iverson