[comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc] Gateway 2000 Drops Prices Again!

clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Captain Trott) (12/12/90)

25 MHz 486
8 Meg RAM
64K RAM cache
Weitek socket
3.5 & 5.25 floppies
Windows 3.0 & MS mouse
1024 SVGA board & monitor
Fujitsu keyboard
200 MB hard drive
MS-DOS 3.3 or 4.01
Toll free technical support.
1 year on site service.

$3995! <- NOT a typo.

A friend of mine picked one up several weeks ago for $400 dollars
more, and so they're sending her a refund for the difference.

-Chris

david@star2.cm.utexas.edu (David Sigeti) (12/13/90)

In article <Dec.12.07.32.31.1990.20745@remus.rutgers.edu> 
clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Captain Trott) writes:

   [Describing the latest prices on a 486 system from Gateway 2000] 

   25 MHz 486
   8 Meg RAM
   64K RAM cache
   Weitek socket
   3.5 & 5.25 floppies
   Windows 3.0 & MS mouse
   1024 SVGA board & monitor
   Fujitsu keyboard
   200 MB hard drive
   MS-DOS 3.3 or 4.01
   Toll free technical support.
   1 year on site service.

   $3995! <- NOT a typo.

Frankly, this price is so low -- and so far below prices for similar
systems from other vendors of equivalent reputation -- that I can't
help wondering if there isn't something wrong with the system.  I have
tried calling Gateway several times and have been unable to get
through so I am posting some questions about the system to the net.

Does anyone know anything more about the motherboard in this system
(manufacturer, BIOS, etc.)?  In particular, does it support the 486
burst mode (see below)?  Also, does anyone know about the caching
algorithm and how well, or poorly, it works with the internal cache
and possible burst mode operation?

The questions of burst mode support and interaction between internal
and external caches seem to me to be worth some discussion.  I would
be very interested in any information that anyone has on these issues
w.r.t. *any* motherboard or system out there.

[For those who wonder what I am talking about, the burst mode is a
fast way of filling a (128-bit) line in the 486's internal cache.
Normally, a memory read requires two clock cycles.  When the 486 is
filling a cache line, however, it can accept successive (32-bit) reads
in a single clock cycle each, if the surrounding circuitry supports
it.  Thus, filling a cache line can be accomplished in five clock
cycles (one to assert the starting address plus one for each 32-bit
read) rather than eight clock cycles (two for each 32-bit read).]

P. S.  I accidently posted an abbreviated version of this note about a
       half hour before posting this one.  I have cancelled it but
       want to offer my apologies if it is cluttering up anyone's
       version of this newsgroup.
--
David Sigeti    david@star2.cm.utexas.edu    cmhl265@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu

rickf@pmafire.inel.gov (rick furniss) (12/13/90)

>In article <Dec.12.07.32.31.1990.20745@remus.rutgers.edu> 
>clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Captain Trott) writes:
>
>   [Describing the latest prices on a 486 system from Gateway 2000] 
>
>   25 MHz 486
>   8 Meg RAM
>   64K RAM cache
>   Weitek socket
>   3.5 & 5.25 floppies
>   Windows 3.0 & MS mouse
>   1024 SVGA board & monitor
>   Fujitsu keyboard
>   200 MB hard drive
>   MS-DOS 3.3 or 4.01
>   Toll free technical support.
>   1 year on site service.
>
>   $3995! <- NOT a typo.
>
>Frankly, this price is so low -- and so far below prices for similar
>systems from other vendors of equivalent reputation -- that I can't
>help wondering if there isn't something wrong with the system.  I have
>tried calling Gateway several times and have been unable to get
>through so I am posting some questions about the system to the net.
>
>Does anyone know anything more about the motherboard in this system
>(manufacturer, BIOS, etc.)?  In particular, does it support the 486
>burst mode (see below)?  Also, does anyone know about the caching
>algorithm and how well, or poorly, it works with the internal cache
>and possible burst mode operation?
>    REST DELETED *******************************

   I purchased a 33-386 ASCI machine from them 45 days ago, and because
of the price drops got them to send me a 486 upgrade for $225.
   The board they send:
Micronics 25-486 64k external cache, Phoenix BIOS Plus V0.10.F8 version 1.
The date in rom using debug -d f000:fff5 says 1/15/88 !!!

  The problem: I,m running SCO Unix V.3.2 2 , and after installing the
486 board, Unix double panics, displays a red raster, and locks up.
  I have a dos partition installed, and dos seems to work fine.
  I get the symbol names like tss.386 etc etc etc errors and final 0E trap
if I boot using the com1 port (systty=1).  
  It appears I,m unable to disable shadow ram, which there are switchs for
without getting memory data line errors starting about f80000.
  Tech person at Gateways states you cant do it, even though there are
switchs.  I suspect it has something to do with the external cache, but
disableing all caches dosent fix it ?

     Anyone out there have a Gateway 486 running SCO Unix 3.2 2 ???
     Is it known that a Gateway 486 runs SCO Unix ?
     If so, what bios, problems did you encounter ?

   I dont know if the board supports the burst mode you mention, and the
book sent with the board is not detailed enough to mention it either.

   I have purchased about 10 systems from Gateway and make these comments.

  Gateway uses name brand, high performance, compatable, cards, disks, etc.
  I,ve never had a compatibility problem till the 486 board.
  I suspect they sent me an older chip set 486, and older BIOS roms, not
realizing I run Unix.
  A telcon today with support at Gateway devuldged they have been going 
through many ROM bios updates lateley.
  Gateway has not released a 33-486 system, and I,m not sure they will soon.
  They stated thier 486 will NOT run Unix Open Desktop !
  My problem isnt resolved yet, as I was to re-install Unix, but alas
get the same problem once the install Unix kernel boots.
  For what you get thier prices are tuff to beat.
  They have grown soo rapidly reaching them is sometime hard, but once
you get through they take care of you.

  For Unix users I can recommend thier 386 systems for sure, but dont know
about thier 486's yet.

Rick Furniss
Views are my own only , and not related to My employer in anyway.!

rickf@pmafire.inel.gov
rickf@servprod.inel.gov
rlf@inel.gov

clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) (12/13/90)

In article <DAVID.90Dec12173536@star2.cm.utexas.edu>, David Sigeti writes:

>    [Describing the latest prices on a 486 system from Gateway 2000] 

>    25 MHz 486
>    8 Meg RAM
>    64K RAM cache
>    Weitek socket
>    3.5 & 5.25 floppies
>    Windows 3.0 & MS mouse
>    1024 SVGA board & monitor
>    Fujitsu keyboard
>    200 MB hard drive
>    MS-DOS 3.3 or 4.01
>    Toll free technical support.
>    1 year on site service.

>    $3995! <- NOT a typo.

...
> Does anyone know anything more about the motherboard in this system
> (manufacturer, BIOS, etc.)?  In particular, does it support the 486
> burst mode (see below)?  Also, does anyone know about the caching
> algorithm and how well, or poorly, it works with the internal cache
> and possible burst mode operation?
...

Some more rambling:

Phoenix 486 BIOS, Diamond SpeedStar video card (1024K).

I don't know the answer to your other questions, but it has a 114 MHz
landmark, a 39.0 old SI, and a 54.0 new SI (Norton 5.0).  We have two
of them over here, both of which have been very reliable.  Gateway
2000, incidentally, was #2 on the Inc. 500 _500 Fastest Growth_ list
for the US recently.  A friend of mine is in the process of converting
Provident Mutual of Philadelphia from IBM to Gateway machines ...

Gateway 2000 will also send replacement parts by overnight Federal
Express for free (whole systems for a little extra).  Nice!  And
there is also 30-day money back guarantee, which is something I
neglected to mention in my earlier posting.

Prices have also dropped several hundred dollars on their 286 and
386 systems.

I'm not affiliated with Gateway 2000 in any way, shape, or form;
I'm just a very satisfied consumer.

-Chris

scott@Futures.COM (Scott Boyd) (12/15/90)

In <Dec.12.07.32.31.1990.20745@remus.rutgers.edu> clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Captain Trott) writes:


>25 MHz 486
>8 Meg RAM
>64K RAM cache
>Weitek socket
>3.5 & 5.25 floppies
>Windows 3.0 & MS mouse
>1024 SVGA board & monitor
>Fujitsu keyboard
>200 MB hard drive
>MS-DOS 3.3 or 4.01
>Toll free technical support.
>1 year on site service.

>$3995! <- NOT a typo.

Big Deal! Prices are now below $3000 for 486-25 systems from local
vendors here. A typical system from Price Club is $2999 and that
is a little high. It consists of:

25 MHz 486
2 Meg RAM
Weitek socket
3.5 & 5.25 floppies
Windows 3.0 & mouse
1024 SVGA board & monitor
101 key keyboard
106 MB IDE hard drive
MS-DOS 4.01
Toll free technical support.
30 day money back no questions asked guarantee
1 year service

If I add the extra RAM, the 64K cache, and larger drive its still only
about $3500. A $500 savings!

-- 
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Scott Boyd          |   SPARC spelled backwards is what Sun does unto       |
| scott@Futures.COM   |             their Intel based customers.              |
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+

tedyoung@panix.uucp (Ted Young) (12/16/90)

In article <Dec.13.05.43.05.1990.15299@remus.rutgers.edu> clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>
>Gateway 2000 will also send replacement parts by overnight Federal
>Express for free (whole systems for a little extra).  Nice!  And
>there is also 30-day money back guarantee, which is something I
>neglected to mention in my earlier posting.

Gateway2000 also advertises on-site repair along with overnite 
replacement parts.  What they neglect to say is that they will
ship the parts overnite, but that it can take 4 days for it to
get out the door!  Also, *they* decide whether to send an on-site
person, and it can take 2 days (more if it's over a weekend) for
someone to even call to set up an appointment to come over!

My friend got one of their 386-25's, and it not only came late, 
but DOA (dead on arrival).  Of course, they have *NO* technical
support (nor sales) on the weekend, so we had to wait until Monday
to call.  Then it took 2 days of calling them back again and again
before they decided it was the motherboard.  We've received the
motherboard and are now waiting for TRW (they're on site repair
contractor) to call and set up an appointment.  Meanwhile, my
friend could've ordered from Swan or Northgate and he'd be up
by now, but he ordered from Gateway2000 because they promised the
fastest ship time.  I told him to get a refund, but he needs the
computer *badly*. <sigh>

>
>I'm not affiliated with Gateway 2000 in any way, shape, or form;
>I'm just a very satisfied consumer.

I'm not affiliated with any companies mentioned, but as a computer
consultant you can bet Gateway2000 won't be getting my recommendation.

>
>-Chris


	-- Ted

clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) (12/16/90)

In article <8124@futures.Futures.COM>, Scott Boyd writes:

> Big Deal! Prices are now below $3000 for 486-25 systems from local
> vendors here. A typical system from Price Club is $2999 and that
> is a little high. It consists of:

{ 100 MB HD, 2 MB RAM }

> If I add the extra RAM, the 64K cache, and larger drive its still only
> about $3500. A $500 savings!

6*(price per MB) + price of cache + price of larger drive = $500?
On what planet?

Are you getting a Micronics board and Diamond SpeedStar video (or the
equivalent quality)?

-Chris

clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) (12/16/90)

In article <1990Dec15.225706.21888@panix.uucp>, Ted Young writes:

{Describes a problem he had with Gateway}

> I'm not affiliated with any companies mentioned, but as a computer
> consultant you can bet Gateway2000 won't be getting my recommendation.

If you base your decision on one incident, you're an idiot.

I've had absolutely no problems with them, and ditto for most of the
people I've talked to.

-Chris

neman@sunee.waterloo.edu (Neman "Napalm" Syed) (12/18/90)

All this discussion about Gateway has me wondering... have
any Canadians purchased from Gateway?  I'd like to know
what kind of troubles to expect if I decide to order something
from them.  Perhaps followups should go to misc.consumer or
something more appropriate.

-- 
Neman Syed - Rebel Without A Clue
neman@sunee.uwaterloo.ca    or    neman@108.watstar.uwaterloo.ca
Opinions expressed are solely those of my employers and in
no way affect or represent those of Neman Syed.