[comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc] gateway/zeos summary long

joec@Morgan.COM (Joe Collins) (01/09/91)

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Here is (approximately) my original posting
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I am considering buying a PC from GATEWAY 2000 and am looking
at their '25Mhz 386VGA' system which they quote a price of
$2395. It includes 4mb ram, 5.25" disk, 3.5" disk, 80mb hard
disk (with 32k cache), 16bit VGA with 1mb ram, 14" 1024x768 color monitor
1 parallel/2 serial ports, MS DOS 3.3 or 4.01 and WIndows 3.0.
They have a multipage ad in PC Magazine (1/15/90,page 140).

I have no experience with them and wish to know of other
people's experiences (good and bad) with them re:
Price, Delivered as advertised, quality, reliability/service,
telephone support

Thanks to ALL who replied....It was VERY helpful and I plan
to order from Gateway after I talk further with them.
==================================================================
[ replies edited to shorten them. Names left out where requested ]

From: uunet!ais.org!danr (Daniel Romanchik)

   You asked about Gateway.  While I have no personal experience with
them, I used to use BIX, and many BIX users seemed satisfied with
them.  I almost bought a computer from them myself, but a local company
came up with a better deal.

Good Luck,  Dan
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: (wishes to remain unidentified)

I have three friends that have bought this package, and if I were an
IBM person (buy Amiga!  :) ) I would consider it a VERY VERY GOOD deal!

>1-Price

Good.  They ave a pretty good educational discount.  It may be worth
your while to find a student and have him/her purchase the computer
for you.  Saves a few hundred bucks.

>2-Delivered as advertised

Yes.  The timeliness may be a little off -- they tend to be low on
stock of a few items.  All the PCs arrived within two weeks of the
projected shipping date, so it's not too bad.  

>3-quality

Not a problem.  I would go with DOS 3.3 rather than DOS 4.01, though.
DOS 4.01 was acting in a buggy fashion, but I tend to believe that's
more DOS's fault than Gateway's.

>4-reliability/service

Other than the time problem, service seems to be just fine.  No boot
problems with the machines.  No bad sectors on the hard drives.
Nothing hits me on the head as being a "bad" thing.

>5-telephone support

None needed.  One of them called and asked if his computer was
shipped.  They replied that it was.  End of phone call.

>
>Many, many thanks and I will be glad to post a summary
>of replies.

Fine, though leave my name/E-Mail address out of it.  I hassle the
people in question about purchasing an IBM as opposed to an Amiga --
the last thing in the world I need is for them quoting me about how
*I* said their PCs were good, high-quality machines.  :)  Then again,
I got my Amiga for a bargain basement price -- $1750 for an Amiga
3000, 2mb RAM and 50mb HD with a 16mHz 68030 and 32-bit EVERYTHING.
Virtually brand new.  A friend of mine is going to Stanford (not
planned -- he thought his grades were well below what thet should
be!).  Stanford is THE MacIntosh capital of education.  He felt he
needed a Mac.  I asked him if he wanted to sell his 1 month old Amiga.

But I digress...  the Gateway is one of the best deals out there.  I
have three friends that are satisfied buyers.  The machine performs
competitively with others of its class in diagnostics.  It comes fully
functional out of the box.  It works.

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From: uunet!wdl1.wdl.loral.com!ekman (Donald Ekman)
Subject: Gateway experience

Joe,

Early last year I ordered a 25MHz 386 system from Gateway.  The price was
a little higher than you quoted, since I chose to pay extra for the memory
cache.  Nevertheless, the price was certainly competitive.

They told me that it be about a week before my system was shipped.  Sure
enough, about a week later I got a phone call telling me that the system
would be shipped second-day-air on such and such a day, so I should look
for it accordinly.  It arrived on the expected day.

Certainly it was delivered as advertised.  Even better, there was a bunch
of software--diagnostic stuff and on line DOS help hypertext--that I had
not expected.  I took it out of the box, plugged it in, and started playing
with it.  It all worked just fine.  (Eventually I did read the documentation,
which is good.)  It was properly set up, with the 160-Meg disk properly
formatted and partitioned, and software installed.

Quality?  Well, the mother board is the Micronics cache board.  Good stuff.
The controller handles two ESDI drives and up to three floppies, and is
an Ultrastore 12F.  Again, good stuff.  Teac floppies.  What more could you
want?  The VGA board was ATI VGA wonder (OEM version), but I understand
that they are now shipping a different board.  The case is a full-sized
AT style case, well constructed, and not flimsy.  The keyboard is better
than the average, but I still want a Northgate with the function keys on
the left side where God intended that they be.

Reliability/service?  No problems.  No service required.  So I can't tell
you about service or telephone support.

The bottom line is that I would certainly buy again from them.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Don Ekman

P.S.  Three other persons in my office bought essentially identical systems
from Gateway about the same time.  They are all equally pleased.
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From: uunet!hub.ucsb.edu!6500boo%ucsbuxa (William Bushing)
Subject: Re: gateway experiences needed

Joe,

Re: yours on Gateway 2000.

I am responding on my 33 MHz 386 from Gateway which I've had only
a month. So far I like it very much and have had no significant
problems with the machine. I've previously (and still) owned an
AST 286, Compaq Deskpro, Toshiba T-1000, Epson Geneva and Kaypro 4.

Based on what I can tell, its quality is quite good. They used
good components. The case does appear to be a bit less substantial
than others, but mine receives few shocks from people or furniture
so I'm not concerned.

I got the NEC 3D monitor although I've heard theirs (MAG Computronics)
is quite good. My computer desk wouldn't take the large size of the
MAG (the NEC is significantly smaller).

I was quoted $3395. The price dropped to $3295 and they gave me the
$100 difference. Within my 30 day trial period it dropped further
to $3195. My sales rep hasn't returned my calls re: the lower price
but she may be on vacation. I think they're obligated to give the
lower price within the 30-day period.   

I run Windows in 800 x 600 mode, WordPerfect (the preview option is
GREAT in 1024 x 768 mode), WordStar 3.3 (which doesn't support
graphics anyway), Quattro Pro. I do a lot of Turbo Pascal programming
using version 5.5 and once I found a driver that supported 256 colors
in 800 x 600 mode I was VERY pleased with the way my system functioned
in the analysis of satellite imagery using my software.

My sales rep was very responsive during my period of decision (I had
considered EPS as the only other real option). Delivery was only 2
days later than "promised" and they called several times to let me
know the progress on the order. I was actually pleased they delayed
as it would have arrived just prior to a final exam otherwise!

I have had no need to contact tech support yet so no opinion there.

I research the decision for 8 months (I was in no hurry). I origi-
nally had considered ZEOS, but the strong support from Gateway
owners on the Net convinced me to try them. I'm not disappointed.

I don't know what kind of applications you are going to use. I
would recommend that if you are going to get a 25 Mhz machine to
get memory cache. I don't remember the price difference, but all I
talked with stated it was "foolish" to buy a > 25 MHz without it.
My performance index (with the Maxtor 200 Mb hard disk) is 4 times
that of my AST286 (with a Seagate 251-1).

Good luck. Based on what I've seen and heard, I don't think you can
go wrong with the Gateway. Even if there are problems, they seem to
support the machines very well.

Bill

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From: uunet!hub.ucsb.edu!6500boo%ucsbuxa (William Bushing)

Hello again.

As for Zeos, they are also quite good although more pricey 
than Gateway. PC Mag rated their 33 MHz an Editor's Choice in
a recent issue (the Gateway 25 MHz was also a while back). The
general opinion of others on the Net was that Zeos was over
priced (1-2 months ago, I don't know current) and under-powered
in peripherals vs. Gateway. There were very few responses re:
Zeos compared to Gateway.

Good luck.

Bill

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From: "Steve Huff" <uunet!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!HUFF>
Subject: gateway experiences needed: Here's a positive vote

>I have no experience with them and wish to know of other
>people's experiences (good and bad) with them re:
>1-Price
 Maybe not the lowest you'll find, but quite competitive.  I think
 if you buy from a firm with a lower price you might run into troubles
 (ever heard of Northgate?)

>2-Delivered as advertised
 I had a problem here, but Gateway fixed it in one day.  They sent my
 system w/out the keyboard and 5 1/4 drive.  They sent both pieces via
 FedEx, and knocked $50 off the bill for me to install the drive.  I
 did have the option of sending the box back, at their cost, and they
 would install the drive.

>3-quality
 Sometimes my 3 1/2 drive won't restore disks backed up from my PS/2.
 My roommate's PC doesn't have this problem.  Gateway claimed most
 clone drives experience this.  I'm living with it... no biggie.

>4-reliability/service
 Excellent.  They do what they say.

>5-telephone support
 Could be better, but it is toll-free.  The longest I've had to wait
 on a return call is 24 hours.  My roommate called them about AutoCad,
 they didn't know the product but did solve his problem.

>Many, many thanks and I will be glad to post a summary
>of replies.
 Please do.  I'd like to see what others have to say.
 BTW, I don't work for Gateway :-).

Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Greg Lee  <uunet!uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!lee>
Subject: Re: gateway experiences needed

" I am considering buying a PC from GATEWAY 2000 and am looking
" at their '25Mhz 386VGA' system which they quote a price of
" $2395.

I bought their 386vga-25 a couple of months ago.  I like it.  The price
was $300 higher when I bought it, and I got them to substitute a
Sony 1304 monitor, which cost me another $300.

" It includes 4mb ram, 5.25" disk, 3.5" disk, 80mb hard
" disk (with 32k cache), 16bit VGA with 1mb ram, 14" 1024x768 color monitor

My 80mb disk turned out to be a Western Digital IDE drive.  It's nice and
fast.  Mine doesn't have a cache, however, and no documentation came
with it.  Also, my video card (ATI) came with only 512k ram.  So it looks
like overall you're getting a good deal.

Something you might want to check about is the way it does memory
access.  My system benchmarks out pretty slow, because the motherboard
does not do interleaved memory access with only 4mb ram in the system --
one has to get another 4mb ram for it to interleave.

" I have no experience with them and wish to know of other
" people's experiences (good and bad) with them re:
" 1-Price
	very good, I'd say, but you can compare ads as well as I can
" 2-Delivered as advertised
	yes, except they took over 4 weeks to deliver my machine when they
	told me 2 weeks to delivery;  but I gather from other comments I've
	seen that this was not typical -- usually they're on time
" 3-quality
	good; Gateway has a reputation for well constructed machines that
	use standard parts
" 4-reliability/service
	reliability is a weak point; my video board failed soon after the
	machine arrived.  But it was promptly replaced.  Other comments I've
	seen suggest this is not unusual with Gateway.  Some of their systems
	do fail soon, but their service is good -- they fix them.  You do
	have to pay for shipping a failed part back to them, however.
" 5-telephone support
	good.  I made one call to their technical support number.  No problem,
	except it did take some time being passed from person to person before
	getting to talk to someone who knew something.

Greg, lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: uunet!waii.COM!rob (Rob Freyder)
Subject: Re: gateway experiences needed

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you write:

[stuff deleted]

>I have no experience with them and wish to know of other
>people's experiences (good and bad) with them re:
>1-Price

Hard to beat.  the system is fast and runs Unix.

>2-Delivered as advertised

Yup.  They call you when they ship it !!

>3-quality

Excellent.

>4-reliability/service

Good so far.  havent needed service.

>5-telephone support

havent called yet.  A friend said you might have to wait a little.


A Great Machine.  Go for it.
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From: uunet!malta.sbi.com!kevinr (Kevin Redden)
Subject: Re: zeos

> Allow me to ask for people's experiences re ZEOS as well as
> GATEWAY.
> 
> joec@morgan.com

Joe;

I bought a 25 Mhz 386 from Zeos in July, and I have been mostly
pleased with the service. I placed the order by phone, but the
order taker blew it and placed the order with the wrong options.
Their customer service was friendly and responsive to fixing the
problem, and sent out the missing parts promptly.

The hardware has been reliable, but then again, any standard
clone is expected to be that way. They used only name brand
components inside the box (Mylex motherboard, and a name
brand power supply whose name escapes me right now).

Kevin Redden
------------------------------------------------------------
From: uunet!ursa-major.spdcc.com!weaver (Read Weaver)


I'm interested too; anything you get in the mail could you send along
to me?
Thanks.
------------------------------------------------------------
From: (wishes to remain anonymous)
Subject: Gateway

[stuff deleted]

>I have no experience with them and wish to know of other
>people's experiences (good and bad) with them re:


>1-Price

I think Gateway's are about the best around, which is the principal
reason I bought from them. I bought the 33MHz model.

>2-Delivered as advertised

No. They promised two-week delivery, which is long by mail-order
standards, and they were 10 days late. I ordered on Nov. 27, and got
the system on Dec. 21. To their credit, they did keep me well informed
of the delays, and only delayed shipment one time. At it was around
Christmas.

>3-quality

Seems good to me. The motherboard is a Micronics, and all the other
parts are name-brand. I don't like the keyboard, but it's a
Keytronics, which is supposed to be a decent brand. The disk drive is
the best thing going for the machine, in mine it is a 200MB Maxtor,
and is extremely quiet and fast. But...

>4-reliability/service

I have three problems, two of them minor. The most important is that
the VGA card starts putting waves on the screen after it has been
powered up for thirty minutes or so. The power supply begins to make a
strange on-and-off hissing sound also, and may either result from or
be the cause of the problem with the VGA board.  Lastly, something in
the machine also emits a high-frequency whine that is quite annoying.

I called tech support on Dec. 24.  They didn't return my call so I
called again on Dec. 26. I couldn't get through so I called the sales
line and asked to be switched to tech support. I was on hold for
twenty minutes. The tech rep decided to send me a new VGA board.
Unfortunately, it takes them 3-5 days to process an order for a
replacement part. A week later I still have not received the board.
If I have to ask for a new power supply, I guess I'll have to wait a
week for that also. So in my opinion the "overnight parts replacement
policy" has no meaning. Who cares if they ship it overnight if it
takes them a week to process the order?

>5-telephone support

Seemed OK, once I got through. The tech rep sounded bored and not
especially interested in diagnosing my problem. Of course, replacing
the VGA board seemed the logical thing to try first. 

>Many, many thanks and I will be glad to post a summary

Some general comments...

The overnight parts replacement promise misled me, and may mislead
others. Of course, they do tell the truth. They do use overnight
shipping, it's just that they don't actually get around to shipping it
for a week or so.  But when they do actually ship it, it comes (I
presume) overnight.  And it's not really free shipping, since you have
to pay to ship the broken part back to them.

I have two friends who bought from Zeos and are completely happy.  I
thought I'd be smart and save a few hundred bucks ordering from
Gateway. They got their machines in a week from Zeos and had
absolutely no problems. However, I don't have any idea if Zeos' parts
replacement policies are any better. My friends had no problems with
their machines so they never had to call tech support.  It may be that
Zeos is no better at supporting a broken machine than Gateway is.  I
urge you to try calling technical support of both companies and asking
them about some of their policies. I regret that I did not do this,
assuming instead that I could believe their ads. It's one thing for
someone to tell you that you may have to wait two days to get through
to tech support, it's quite another thing to actually live through it
when your brand new toy is broken.

In my opinion, if you buy from Gateway, you have to hope that you have
no problems with the machine. Otherwise you may be in for alot of
frustration trying to get through to technical support and waiting
around for replacement parts to come. Of course, I was trying to do
all this during the Christmas season, but then again, their ads don't
say, "Excellent quality and service, EXCEPT during the Christmas
season." Zeos purports to have 24 hour-a-day tech support. Whether
this is useful or not I don't know.

I should mention some of the good things. I like the documentation.
The machine was very easy to set up, all the ports in the back are
clearly labeled. The monitor seems to have a nice sharp picture (when
my VGA board is working). If you don't have any hardware problems,
you'll probably be very satisfied. I had hoped I would be one of those
satisifed customers also.

Again, I urge you to call Gateway and question them about their
replacement parts policy. I am planning to send them a letter
expressing my frustration about having to wait more than a week for a
VGA board. Fourteen of my thirty trial period days are gone, and I
still don't have a machine that works to my satisfaction. I would hate
to receive a dead machine, and then have to wait a week or more for
them to ship a replacement. If I send the machine back for a refund, I
plan or trying Zeos next, and you can bet I'll be a more
discriminating customer when it comes to tech support and parts
replacement. I have bought two other machines mail-order (from now
defunct distributors) and never had problems with either one, so I
never had to deal with this before.

Good luck.

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From: John Sauter <uunet!iti.org!john>
Subject: Re: gateway experiences needed

I bought the 20 MHz 386 same configuration in October.  I am really
pleased with the product and the prices.  I am having a little
problem with the monitor (a Mag Computronics) but I think they are
using a different monitor now.  I have excellent results with the
service and support.  There prices have consistently been the best
of all the big name mail order houses.  They have scored very well
on national surveys (PC Mag did one on mail order PCs awhile back).
Go ahead and buy, I don't think you will regret it!


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From: Robert Lund <uunet!bighorn.uswest.com!rml>
Subject: Re: gateway experiences needed

I bought a 386 system from then over 1 year ago. I have been very
satisfied with their system and service (although I have not needed
there tech support).

Bob Lund
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From: uunet!decwrl.dec.com!decvax!nicmad!madnix!rat (David Douthitt)
Subject: Re: zeos


I'm writing this from a Zeos 386SX.  The ole stinker's been on almost
non-stop since I bought it, and it keeps on ticking.  I've had it for
2 months now, and I love it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello.
I am replying to your question concerning Zeos Computers.

I ordered a Zeos 386SX system in early MAY of 1990.  It arrived a 
week late (I called Zeos beforehand and found that they had not yet
shipped it, but it arrived promptly after my call.  The system was
a breeze to set up and has worked without a hitch since.

The 640x480 VGA monitor is good and video display is fast.  Setup and 
diagnositcs are well-setup so that they are easy to access.  It is a
speedy computer and came at a low price.

The manual is informative, but seems outdated with respect to diagrams
of the system unit.

There have been NO compatibility problems, the 65MB hard drive worked well,
and the keyboard is EXCELLENT.

My friend owns a Gateway 2000  33MHz 386, by the way.  It seems to be a good
computer on the inside, but the case is not as elegant as the Zeos' and 
the monitor is much dimmer.  The keyboard does not have as good response,
either.

I would recommend the Zeos system.  The company that I worked for over the 
summer puchased a Zeos 386 due to my recommendation and has been very 
happy with it since.

I hope that this helps.

					Yevgeny Gurevich
-----------------------------end of summary-----------------------