leo@hoss.unl.edu (Leo Chouinard) (03/11/91)
Every once in a while my department has some money to spend on software or
hardware. Inquiring recently, however, I found that nobody on this campus
seems to have a general list of educational discounts available. I'm
aware, of course, of Borland's educational pricing scheme. And I've heard
of one or two others. But there doesn't seem to be a general list on this
campus, and if there's a list of such discounts maintained in an accessible
format on the net, I haven't come across it.
So I was wondering whether it would make sense, given the number of
educators that use the net, for there to be a central list of educational
discounts (non-site-specific, i.e. of the sort that almost any educator
in the country would be eligible for) maintained in some form on the net -
presumably either FTP-able, or posted regularly in a newsfile, or both.
Possibly there should even be three separate lists - one for PC/MS-DOS
hardware and software, one for Macintosh, and one for other systems. I'm
an MS-DOS person myself, but we have all of the above in my department,
and I know that's also true in many other places.
I'm relatively new to the Internet, so maybe this has been discussed
before - maybe it's even being done and I'm just not aware of it. But if
not, it seems to me that the following questions are among the set of
potentially relevant ones:
1) Would people find such a list (or lists) useful? Has this been tried
before?
2) Would the companies that offer such discounts object to such a list?
I can't see why they would, but if it decreased the inclination of companies
to offer such discounts, the list would be counterproductive.
3) Would it be difficult to maintain such a list? Could we assume that
pricing/policy changes with regards to educational discounts would be
easily obtainable either from educators reporting them, or in some cases
by the companies themselves passing the word on?
4) If such a list is feasible and a good idea, what form should it take?
Should there be just one list, or several lists devoted to different
segments of the market (e.g., as discussed above)? If several, how should
they be subdivided?
Any feedback, positive or negative (or uncharged), is appreciated.
Leo Chouinard
leo@hoss.unl.edu
(839 Oldfather Hall
Dept. of Math. & Stat.
Univ. of Nebraska - Lincoln
Lincoln, NE 68588-0323)flint@gistdev.gist.com (Flint Pellett) (03/12/91)
leo@hoss.unl.edu (Leo Chouinard) writes: >So I was wondering whether it would make sense, given the number of >educators that use the net, for there to be a central list of educational >discounts (non-site-specific, i.e. of the sort that almost any educator >in the country would be eligible for) maintained in some form on the net - It would seem to be useful, the trick might be keeping it up to date, getting info about what each different vendor requires in order to prove your educational status, and having only reasonable deals on it. I haven't seen that many "Educational Discounts" (Borland is a pleasant exception) that are all that worthwhile. If you're a student with not a lot of cash, you're going to end up with more machine for less money buying a good clone mail-order than you will buying name-brand at a 40% student discount: because that 40% is 40% off "list price", when the reality is you're getting maybe 10% off the normal street price, and sometimes not even that, to buy equipment that costs 1/3rd more than the competition for comparable power. -- Flint Pellett, Global Information Systems Technology, Inc. 1800 Woodfield Drive, Savoy, IL 61874 (217) 352-1165 uunet!gistdev!flint or flint@gistdev.gist.com
so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan S. So) (03/12/91)
In article <1991Mar11.082920.7396@hoss.unl.edu> leo@hoss.unl.edu writes: >Every once in a while my department has some money to spend on software or >hardware. Inquiring recently, however, I found that nobody on this campus >seems to have a general list of educational discounts available. I'm >aware, of course, of Borland's educational pricing scheme. And I've heard >of one or two others. ............ Talking about educational discounts, I am totally confused by some companies. Take Greenleaf Software as an example, I am interested in their Super Functions package which is listed $299.00. I called for an educational discount, they offered 15% off. Now if you purchase the same package from other software houses, e.g. Programmer's Connection, you can get as low as $229.00 (about 23% off). Effectively, they are not offering anything to students. I told them about this. They already knew about it and told me they were not allowed to directly compete with those software houses or something close... I don't understand a bit! ______ ____________________ _ / / ._>____ __ __ __ __ __ Bryan So (so@cs.wisc.edu) ___-(o) ___ / / . \ / ._>\ ' //. |/ ' / Computer Sciences Department ////\_|_/\\\\ /_/____//_\_\ / //_\_|_/\_/ 1210 W. Dayton , | , ______________ /_/_________ Madison, WI 53706 '|`
medici@dorm.rutgers.edu (Mark Medici) (03/12/91)
so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan S. So) writes: >Talking about educational discounts, I am totally confused by some >companies. Take Greenleaf Software as an example, I am interested >in their Super Functions package which is listed $299.00. I called >for an educational discount, they offered 15% off. >Now if you purchase the same package from other software houses, >e.g. Programmer's Connection, you can get as low as $229.00 (about >23% off). Effectively, they are not offering anything to students. >I told them about this. They already knew about it and told me they >were not allowed to directly compete with those software houses or >something close... I don't understand a bit! Often the manufacturer cites dealer support as the reason for this policy. In truth, larger companies often don't want to be bothered with small orders (less than six digits). Other times, small companies need to provide assurance to dealers that they won't errode the dealer's profit potential. Unfortunately, this is not uncommon. Even when I was doing a lot of consulting (and selling lots of hardware and software), I often found mail-order pricing lower than what I would pay to the major distributors and manufacturers. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Medici ** Systems Programmer III * Rutgers University Computing Services medici@elbereth.rutgers.edu * medici@cancer.BITNET * !rutgers!elbereth!medici My opinions are not necessarily my employers'. *Reality is context-sensitive.
kotlas@uncecs.edu (Carolyn M. Kotlas) (03/12/91)
In article <1991Mar11.082920.7396@hoss.unl.edu>, leo@hoss.unl.edu (Leo Chouinard) writes: > Every once in a while my department has some money to spend on software or > hardware. Inquiring recently, however, I found that nobody on this campus > seems to have a general list of educational discounts available. I'm > aware, of course, of Borland's educational pricing scheme. And I've heard > of one or two others. But there doesn't seem to be a general list on this > campus, and if there's a list of such discounts maintained in an accessible > format on the net, I haven't come across it. The University of North Carolina publishes a directory of educational prices for computer software. The 1990-1991 edition includes 140 pages with price lists from 41 vendors representing more than 100 products for either MS-DOS or Macintosh systems. We also try to include any special forms that have to be filled out and sent in to qualify for the discount. Also included is a vendor directory that includes names, addresses, and if available, the name of the educational sales representative, toll-free numbers, and fax numbers. I revise this directory each summer with a new edition produced in September and, if necessary (and it usually is), an update supplement is produced each January. The vendor list is available at no charge via e-mail and can be used to create your own price list directory. Send me your e-mail address, and I'll e-mail you a copy of the vendor list. At this time, the complete document with all the price lists are available only in hardcopy format. (Someday, we hope to get vendors to appreciate the need for machine-readable copy of their pricelists!) Since we're a public university we have to charge for the complete hardcopy version to cover our printing and mailing costs. I can send more information on this by private e-mail for those who are interested. --carolyn -- Carolyn Kotlas (kotlas@uncecs.edu or kotlas@ecsvax.bitnet) UNC Ed. Comp. Serv., POB 12035, Res. Triangle Pk., NC 27709 919/549-0671 "Serving the 16 campuses of The University of North Carolina system"
andrewsh@lonex.radc.af.mil (Harold G. Andrews II) (03/13/91)
In article <1991Mar11.175031.1781@spool.cs.wisc.edu> so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan S. So) writes: >...I called >for an educational discount, they offered 15% off. > >Now if you purchase the same package from other software houses, >e.g. Programmer's Connection, you can get as low as $229.00 (about >23% off). Effectively, they are not offering anything to students. > >I told them about this. They already knew about it and told me they >were not allowed to directly compete with those software houses or >something close... I don't understand a bit! This problem deals with the politics of direct sales vs. sales to distributors. I think you'll find that the majority of this company's business is through third part distributors. There is probably some kind of a licensing agreement between the distributor and the manufacturer that basicly says that the distributor will continue to sell the manufacturer's product, if the manufacturer doesn't go behind the distributor's back and undercut the retail price of the software. I hope this clarifies things a little bit for you. The whole concept is called capitalism. -Andy ******************************************************************************* * Harold G. "Andy" Andrews II, 1Lt, USAF * "Many the man whose punctuality * * andrewsh@lonex.radc.af.mil * serves only to warm his chair." * * Rome Laboratory/IRRE * * * Griffiss AFB, NY 13441-5700 * - M. Kabrisky * * (315) 330-7788 (AVN Prfx 587) * (Not an official USAF viewpoint) * *******************************************************************************
ar12@prism.gatech.EDU (REGISTER,ANDREW H) (03/14/91)
In article <1991Mar11.175031.1781@spool.cs.wisc.edu>, so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan S. So) writes: > In article <1991Mar11.082920.7396@hoss.unl.edu> leo@hoss.unl.edu writes: > >Every once in a while my department has some money to spend on software or > >hardware. Inquiring recently, however, I found that nobody on this campus > >seems to have a general list of educational discounts available. I'm > >aware, of course, of Borland's educational pricing scheme. And I've heard > >of one or two others. ............ > There used to be a company called Chambers and Associates located (I think) in Ft. Lauderdale that was in buisness to sell to students and faculty. This was about 5 years ago. I do not have their address and have not gotten a mailing from them for a long time so they may not still be around. If anyone knows anything about this I would like to reestablish a connection with them. Toodles Andy -- Andy Register Internet: ar12@prism.gatech.edu Bitnet: aregiste@gtri01.bitnet -- Sometimes the Bears Win, Sometimes the Bulls Win -- -------- But the Pigs *Always* Lose -------- (author unknown)
reich@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Dick Reichenbach) (03/15/91)
In article <1991Mar11.175031.1781@spool.cs.wisc.edu> so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan S. So) writes: |In article <1991Mar11.082920.7396@hoss.unl.edu> leo@hoss.unl.edu writes: |>Every once in a while my department has some money to spend on software or |>hardware. Inquiring recently, however, I found that nobody on this campus |>seems to have a general list of educational discounts available. I'm |>aware, of course, of Borland's educational pricing scheme. And I've heard |>of one or two others. ............ | |Talking about educational discounts, Yes we were. Some companies (I am talking specfically about WordPerfect Corp) offer some really good ones. Mail order WordPerfect is about $250, Students and others here at OSU buy for $139. AutoDesk Corp. offers AutoCadd for about $500, (I belive it retails for about $2500) Belive it or not(R), IBM's on campus are actually COMPETITIVE with other companies. The best deal on campus on hardware is probably offered by GRiD corporation. If your willing to go off-campus and still get educational discounts, Zenith is right in line with IBM and GRiD. I work as a consultant, and when asked about buying PC compatibles, I will offer the 3 price lists and they are all within $200 for the basic same computer. Of course, I don't reccommend the IBM all the time. MicroChannel boards arn't that easy to come by. And of course if you are talking about educational discounts, you have to mention Apple Computers. But I won't, because this is an MSDOS newsgroup. -- DDDDDD k | reich@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu D D ` cccc k kk (^8 | Dick C. Reichenbach D D i c kkk | "Quoth the raven 'Eat My Shorts'" and DDDDDD i cccc k kk WAS HERE | "Later Grizzley Dudes" - Bart Simpson
aden@vf.jsc.nasa.gov (ADEN_S_SPENSER) (03/16/91)
In article <1991Mar14.213438.27161@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, reich@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Dick Reichenbach) writes... >In article <1991Mar11.175031.1781@spool.cs.wisc.edu> so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan S. So) writes: >|In article <1991Mar11.082920.7396@hoss.unl.edu> leo@hoss.unl.edu writes: >|>Every once in a while my department has some money to spend on software or >|>hardware. Inquiring recently, however, I found that nobody on this campus >|>seems to have a general list of educational discounts available. I'm >|>aware, of course, of Borland's educational pricing scheme. And I've heard >|>of one or two others. ............ >| >|Talking about educational discounts, >And of course if you are talking about educational discounts, you have to >mention Apple Computers. If you're talking educational discounts, you have to mention Commodore, for the AMIGA line. Multitasking, windows, color - all standard. And the educational discounts are fantastic. I believe the basic system (above features) in a 68000 cpu with 2 drives and mouse, 1 MB memory and some startup software (spreadsheet, word processor, BASIC) for ~$700. This is the educational discount. DISCLAIMER: Check with your local dealer to verify these prices. My numbers and features are from memory. I have no affiliation with Commodore; just a satisfied AMIGA 500 owner. -- S. Spenser Aden -- Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Co. -- (713) 483-2028 NASA -- Johnson Space Center, Houston -- Flight Data and Evaluation Office aden@vf.jsc.nasa.gov || Comments are mine alone, not those of LESC or NASA.
RFM@psuvm.psu.edu (03/17/91)
Other software companies that offer pretty good academic prices include: Lotus (123 - 2.2 for @ $100; $125 for version 3); Microsoft (Excel 3.0 for $130, Word for under $100); Borland (Quattro Pro is @ $66); Ashton-Tate (@ $125-150 for dBASE III & IV). All these companies' other software is similarly deeply discounted.