jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) (03/16/91)
A friend and I got in a massive argument over who wrote the CP/M operating system. He claimed that it was "DEC" but I stated that it was DRI. I assumed all along that: 1. CP/M was written by Gary Kildall. 2. CP/M was written by DRI 3. DRI is NOT related to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) If I am in err, pleae let me know. Brian
lee@gdc.portal.com (Seng-Poh Lee, Gen DataComm, +1 203 758-1811) (03/16/91)
In article <27478@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: > A friend and I got in a massive argument over who wrote the CP/M operating > system. He claimed that it was "DEC" but I stated that it was DRI. I > assumed all along that: > > 1. CP/M was written by Gary Kildall. > 2. CP/M was written by DRI > 3. DRI is NOT related to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) > > If I am in err, pleae let me know. You are absolutely right. CP/M WAS based on DEC operating system, though. Commands like PIP and STAT had identical equivalents under DEC PDP 11s. ----- Seng-Poh Lee Work: lee@gdc.portal.com Technology Center ...!uunet!portal!gdc!lee General DataComm Ind. Inc. Home: lee%splee.uucp@hsi.com ...!uunet!hsi!splee!lee +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | T H I S S P A C E F O R R E N T | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
rob.bbs@shark.cs.fau.edu (Robert Rittenhouse) (03/17/91)
jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: > A friend and I got in a massive argument over who wrote the CP/M operating > system. He claimed that it was "DEC" but I stated that it was DRI. I > assumed all along that: > > 1. CP/M was written by Gary Kildall. > 2. CP/M was written by DRI > 3. DRI is NOT related to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) > > If I am in err, pleae let me know. > You are correct. Gary Killdall, (Intergalactic) Digital Research Inc. CP/M was loosely based on a DEC PDP-11 OS (I think RSTS) tho. Rob R. > Brian
kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov (Kaleb Keithley) (03/17/91)
In article <27478@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: >A friend and I got in a massive argument over who wrote the CP/M operating >system. He claimed that it was "DEC" but I stated that it was DRI. I >assumed all along that: > >1. CP/M was written by Gary Kildall. >2. CP/M was written by DRI >3. DRI is NOT related to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) > >If I am in err, pleae let me know. > A little tidbit that may be more folklore than fact, is that Digital Research Inc (DRI) was once known as Intergalactic Digital Research. Only when they became moderately successful, and deemed the Intergalactic portion of their name to be silly, did they drop it. And yes, DRI is, to my knowledge, completely unrelated to DEC. DRI is alive and well selling DR DOS 5.0 and GEM, otherwise known as CP/M :-) -- Kaleb Keithley kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov As of right now, I'm in charge here now... Alexander Haig. Voodoo Economics, that's what it is, voodoo economics. George Bush
sichermn@beach.csulb.edu (Jeff Sicherman) (03/17/91)
In article <27478@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: >A friend and I got in a massive argument over who wrote the CP/M operating >system. He claimed that it was "DEC" but I stated that it was DRI. I >assumed all along that: This is the kind of stuff you argue about ?? > >1. CP/M was written by Gary Kildall. Yes >2. CP/M was written by DRI Well, some/much of the original work was done when he worked at/for intel but he supposedly couldn't interest them in it so he left at some point to continue development and marketing himself. >3. DRI is NOT related to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) It's not but CP/M is heavily influenced by certain aspects of the PDP operating systems used on DEC's early minicomputers.
frotz@dri.com (Frotz) (03/20/91)
kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov (Kaleb Keithley) writes: ]In article <27478@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: ]>A friend and I got in a massive argument over who wrote the CP/M operating ]>system. He claimed that it was "DEC" but I stated that it was DRI. I ]>assumed all along that: ]> ]>1. CP/M was written by Gary Kildall. ]>2. CP/M was written by DRI ]>3. DRI is NOT related to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) ]> ]>If I am in err, pleae let me know. ]> ]A little tidbit that may be more folklore than fact, is that Digital ]Research Inc (DRI) was once known as Intergalactic Digital Research. ]Only when they became moderately successful, and deemed the Intergalactic ]portion of their name to be silly, did they drop it. And yes, DRI ]is, to my knowledge, completely unrelated to DEC. DRI is alive and ]well selling DR DOS 5.0 and GEM, otherwise known as CP/M :-) It is a little surprising to see that so many people (>1 outside of DRI) know about the "Intergalactic" prefix...;-) Yes, DRI is completely unrelated to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) other than the fact that we use MicroVaxen;-) Yes, DR DOS 5.0 is otherwise known as CP/M, just look at the copyright dates!-) Yes, GEM is also known as CP/M, just look at where it is now...;-} WHAT FOLLOWS IS PURE SPECULATION: Many of the DRI myths are so well known that it is hard to find anyone still here, who actually remembers AND is willing to tell!-). Certainly, Gary will not tell outside of a press interview. * There is some talk of Gary's being at Intel, but only a little. * There is more talk of his teaching position at the Naval Post Graduate School, here in Monterey. This story is much more prevalent. * There are rumors that he had his students do the initial prototypes of the OS for a class (or series of classes) before starting Intergalactic DRI, but these have not been confirmed by any "old-timer" (>8 yrs with DRI). -- John "Frotz" Fa'atuai frotz@dri.com (email@domain) Digital Research, Inc. uunet!drivax!frotz (bang!email) c/o MIS Dept. (408) 647-6570 (vmail) 80 Garden Court, CompRm (408) 649-3896 (phone) Monterey, CA 93940 (408) 646-6248 (fax) #include <std/disclaimers.h>
bobd@zaphod.UUCP (Bob Dalgleish) (03/27/91)
In article <1991Mar16.174555.21577@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov> kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov (Kaleb Keithley) writes: >In article <27478@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: >>A friend and I got in a massive argument over who wrote the CP/M operating >>system. He claimed that it was "DEC" but I stated that it was DRI. I >>assumed all along that: >>1. CP/M was written by Gary Kildall. >>2. CP/M was written by DRI >>3. DRI is NOT related to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) >>If I am in err, pleae let me know. >A little tidbit that may be more folklore than fact, is that Digital >Research Inc (DRI) was once known as Intergalactic Digital Research. A fact that may be even less interesting is that an early version of CP/M was written by Dr. Kildall when he worked for Intel. The system was called ISIS (and later ISIS-II) and ran on the Microprocessor Development Systems line of 8080 and 8085 based development stations. There was a user-contributed-library set of patches that would allow CP/M programs to run on top of ISIS-II by changing several of the system vectors to remap filenames, and operation numbers. The critical architectural concepts of separate BIOS and operating system, system vectoring, and filename spaces (drive letters, filename formats, etc.) were all present in the ISIS system. The external interface looked similar to the Digital Equipment Corporation operating system family structures: filename formats, drive specifications, command line arguments and flags. Even more amusing is the guy at Motorola who wrote their first 68000 development system software. He was so bemused by the DEC approach to doing things that a typical command line looked like: ,,,,PASCAL.EXE ,,DEMO,SRC,/LK=NO,,LST (note that there are no typos in the above line). The first three commas indicated that the standard search path, account number, group number could be used. The fourth comma was required to indicate something that I now forget. The rest of the commas are also required, and the comma separating the DEMO and SRC was there to indicate that it was a Pascal source program, and that the standard suffix of .PAS was not used. Note also that I told Motorola in no uncertain terms that putting that kind of abortion onto a lovely processor like the 68000 was unconscionable, and that we would not use the development system as a consequence. Motorola was not into customer service in those days ;-) Sorry about the harangue -- I just needed to remind people that I do a really good Inspector Luger impersonation %-) -- -- * * * Remember: I before E except after DALGL * * *-- Bob Dalgleish bobd@zaphod.UUCP
jedelen@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Jeff Edelen) (03/28/91)
In article <94uwy2w163w@shark.cs.fau.edu> rob.bbs@shark.cs.fau.edu (Robert Rittenhouse) writes: >jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: > >> A friend and I got in a massive argument over who wrote the CP/M operating >> system. He claimed that it was "DEC" but I stated that it was DRI. I >> assumed all along that: >> >> 1. CP/M was written by Gary Kildall. >> 2. CP/M was written by DRI >> 3. DRI is NOT related to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) >> >> If I am in err, pleae let me know. >> >You are correct. Gary Killdall, (Intergalactic) Digital Research Inc. >CP/M was loosely based on a DEC PDP-11 OS (I think RSTS) tho. >Rob R. >> Brian I always thought it was based on TOPS. I've never used TOPS, but I have used RSTS, and can't believe it's based on that. --jeff
valley@uchicago (Doug Dougherty) (03/28/91)
jedelen@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Jeff Edelen) writes: >In article <94uwy2w163w@shark.cs.fau.edu> rob.bbs@shark.cs.fau.edu (Robert Rittenhouse) writes: >>jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: >> >>> A friend and I got in a massive argument over who wrote the CP/M operating >>> system. He claimed that it was "DEC" but I stated that it was DRI. I >>> assumed all along that: >>> >>> 1. CP/M was written by Gary Kildall. >>> 2. CP/M was written by DRI >>> 3. DRI is NOT related to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) >>> >>> If I am in err, pleae let me know. >>> >>You are correct. Gary Killdall, (Intergalactic) Digital Research Inc. >>CP/M was loosely based on a DEC PDP-11 OS (I think RSTS) tho. >>Rob R. >>> Brian >I always thought it was based on TOPS. I've never used TOPS, but I have used >RSTS, and can't believe it's based on that. Sure it is. CP/M has the DIR cmd, PIP, device:filename (admittedly, the device names are all single character unlike RSTS), "/" as the switch character, filename.ext, etc. Of course, this belongs in alt.folklore.computers, though...
dambrose@dri.com (David Ambrose) (04/02/91)
In article <1991Mar28.053026.27936@slate.mines.colorado.edu> jedelen@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Jeff Edelen) writes: >In article <94uwy2w163w@shark.cs.fau.edu> rob.bbs@shark.cs.fau.edu (Robert Rittenhouse) writes: >>jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: >> >>> 1. CP/M was written by Gary Kildall. >>> 2. CP/M was written by DRI >>> 3. DRI is NOT related to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) >>> >>> If I am in err, pleae let me know. >>> >>You are correct. Gary Killdall, (Intergalactic) Digital Research Inc. >>CP/M was loosely based on a DEC PDP-11 OS (I think RSTS) tho. > >I always thought it was based on TOPS. I've never used TOPS, but I have used >RSTS, and can't believe it's based on that. > CP/M was loosely based on DEC's RT-11 Operating system (version 2). Later versions of RT-11 had a more humane interface. Both systems are decidedly minimalist. :-) -- Play it cool; play it cool; fifty-fifty fire and ice -- Joni Mitchell David L. Ambrose, -- Digital Research, Inc dambrose@pan.dri.com Don't blame DRI. They wouldn't approve of this anyway.
vancleef@iastate.edu (Van Cleef Henry H) (04/02/91)
In article <1991Mar28.053026.27936@slate.mines.colorado.edu> jedelen@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Jeff Edelen) writes: >In article <94uwy2w163w@shark.cs.fau.edu> rob.bbs@shark.cs.fau.edu (Robert Rittenhouse) writes: >>jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: >> >>> A friend and I got in a massive argument over who wrote the CP/M operating >>> system. He claimed that it was "DEC" but I stated that it was DRI. I >>> assumed all along that: >>> >>> 1. CP/M was written by Gary Kildall. >>> 2. CP/M was written by DRI >>> 3. DRI is NOT related to DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) >>> >>> If I am in err, pleae let me know. >>> >>You are correct. Gary Killdall, (Intergalactic) Digital Research Inc. >>CP/M was loosely based on a DEC PDP-11 OS (I think RSTS) tho. >>Rob R. >>> Brian > >I always thought it was based on TOPS. I've never used TOPS, but I have used >RSTS, and can't believe it's based on that. > >--jeff Try RSX-11M TOPS-10, 20 entirely different. --
Jeremy_Harding@f170.n771.z3.fidonet.org (Jeremy Harding) (04/05/91)
FSC-Control: EID:f699 16857164 I speak with authority. I have used TOPS-10 for 8 years as a systems programmer, and CP/M for 5-6 years. I have used RSX11M for 5 years, and have seen RT-11 in use as well. CP/M looks like an early offshoot of TOPS-10 ( TOPS-20 was quite quite different), however the resemblance to RT-11 is also quite close: DEC was aiming for a compatible interface even then. The idea that every command was a program was certainly more akain to RSX11M than to TOPS-10 or RT-11 (TOPS and I think RT-11 both had a command table, and the RUN command was used to start an arbitary program), however this was a sensible idea on a smaller machine (it was avoided under TOPS-10 to speed up command interpretation). TOPS-10 provided a virtual address space mostly devoid of operating system routines which looked very like a small computer: we used to joke that a DECsystem-10 was a 100 RT-11 systems in a concrete mixer. I say that CP/M was an early offshoot of TOPS because the more developed TOPS system provided 'ersatz devices' and PATH concepts more akin to MS-DOS. --- Opus-CBCS 1.14 * Origin: TONY'S BBS !!! Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND. (3:770/101.0) SEEN-BY: 770/101 605 771/110 150 160 170 180 772/20 200 774/10 FSC-Control: PATH: 770/101 772/20 771/110
vancleef@iastate.edu (Van Cleef Henry H) (04/11/91)
In article <9104061042.AA71762@f170.n771.z3.fidonet.org> Jeremy_Harding@f101.n770.z3.fidonet.org (Jeremy Harding) writes: >FSC-Control: EID:f699 16857164 >I speak with authority. I have used TOPS-10 for 8 years as a systems >programmer, and CP/M for 5-6 years. I have used RSX11M for 5 years, and have >seen RT-11 in use as well. CP/M looks like an early offshoot of TOPS-10 ( I am glad that someone in this business can speak with authority. I would not presume to do so. When I can't remember something, my daughter tells me that "Alzheimer's disease is great, dad. You meet new friends every day." I worked for Ben Gurley at DEC on the PDP-1, and recall that the machine was sold without any software---somebody at MIT (can't remember name) wrote a compiler for it. My recollection is that the PDP-10 is a derivative of the PDP-6, and that this in turn was preceded by a one-off PDP-3 experiment. These were Ben Gurley's designs. He died in 1963. The PDP-11 was drawn up by a committee---I was a junior member of that committee; this was in 1969. There was an o/s running on a PDP-6 in the DEC mill in the late 60's that, I think, was the precursor of TOPS-10. As I recall, it had things found in CP/M and RSX such as "pip." My comments are based on recollections of 11-13 years ago, when I used TOPS-10, RSX, RSTS, and CP/M. I think the last I used these was around 1982, and have long since forgotten command details, just the impression that CP/M seemed most like RSX. The real answer will have to come from someone involved with hatching up CP/M, which I wasn't. --