[comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc] Not for Export?

mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Mark A. Holtz) (04/16/91)

I was in a local software store last week, and was looking around,
and noticed that some software packages, (most notable "PageMaker
4" and (I think) "Corel Draw") said on the box "NOT FOR EXPORT -
For US and Canada Only". I realize why PC Tools Deluxe and PKZip
are not allowed to be exported - It's due to encryption by DES
standards. But, why Pagemaker?
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gettys@yacht.enet.dec.com (Bob Gettys) (04/17/91)

	I'm not totally sure, but I suspect that it would be the compression programs that many of these packages use for distribution.  Mnay of them use things like (or actually) PKzip/PKunzip to save on floppies.

	/s/	Bob Gettys

cctr132@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Nick FitzGerald, CSC, Uni. of Canterbury, NZ) (04/17/91)

In article <1991Apr17.211013.5@lincoln.ac.nz>, english@lincoln.ac.nz writes:
> In article <1991Apr16.042431.10997@sactoh0.sac.ca.us>,
mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Mark A. Holtz) writes:
>> I was in a local software store last week, and was looking around,
>> and noticed that some software packages, (most notable "PageMaker
>> 4" and (I think) "Corel Draw") said on the box "NOT FOR EXPORT -
>> For US and Canada Only". I realize why PC Tools Deluxe and PKZip
>> are not allowed to be exported - It's due to encryption by DES
>> standards. But, why Pagemaker?
>> -- 
> 
> is simply commercial reasons, pagemaker will have a reseller/distributor
> in other parts of the world, who have been given the entire market and
> protected from people buying directly from the states. miscrsoft do this
> also, as a result we pay twice the price for our microsoft products in
> this part of the world.
> 
> can assure you it's not because of the compression routines, have
> bought packages locally which use these compression routines.

As I understand it the "full" version of PKZIP is not for export from the
US because of the _encryption_ but I'm not sure that it's DES.  If it is
DES this is a lousy reason to prevent us from legally obtaining this
software.

If you bought, borrowed or stole the Nov 90 DDJ you got source code for
DES en/de-cryption, and I certainly didn't hear of any attempt by US
authorities to to prevent that from going off-shore.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Nick FitzGerald, PC Applications Consultant, CSC, Uni of Canterbury, N.Z. 
 Internet: n.fitzgerald@csc.canterbury.ac.nz        Phone: (64)(3) 642-337 

kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov (Kaleb Keithley) (04/17/91)

In article cctr132@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Nick FitzGerald) writes:
>In article english@lincoln.ac.nz writes:
>> In article mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Mark A. Holtz) writes:
>>> I was in a local software store last week, and was looking around,
>>> and noticed that some software packages, (most notable "PageMaker
>>> 4" and (I think) "Corel Draw") said on the box "NOT FOR EXPORT -
>>> For US and Canada Only". I realize why PC Tools Deluxe and PKZip
>>> are not allowed to be exported - It's due to encryption by DES
>>> standards. But, why Pagemaker?
>> 
>> is simply commercial reasons, pagemaker will have a reseller/distributor
>> in other parts of the world, who have been given the entire market and
>> protected from people buying directly from the states. miscrsoft do this
>> also, as a result we pay twice the price for our microsoft products in
>> this part of the world.
>> 
>> can assure you it's not because of the compression routines, have
>> bought packages locally which use these compression routines.
>
>As I understand it the "full" version of PKZIP is not for export from the
>US because of the _encryption_ but I'm not sure that it's DES.  If it is
>DES this is a lousy reason to prevent us from legally obtaining this
>software.

It's not DES encryption.  english@lincoln.ac.nz was closest.  When you
buy a product like CorelDraw, part of what you are paying for is some
amount of customer support.  When you buy it in the U.S. you are paying
for that customer support in the U.S.  When you buy it in NZ, you are
paying for that support in NZ.  Try calling the U.S. support number
and telling them you're calling from NZ.  You may pay more for a M'soft
product in NZ because there is a much smaller customer base than in the
U.S. to pay for customer support.  Economies of scale comes to mind.
I don't know of a single vendor who, with a valid VISA or Mastercard
number, wouldn't happily ship to Oz, NZ, or even Europe, (hell, I'd do it
if I were in that business) just don't expect your local customer support
to be very friendly about helping you if you run into problems.

As for a "full" version of PKZIP versus any other version, I don't doubt
the existance of one or the other, but, what stops anyone, anywhere in
the world, from ftp'ing into a U.S. archive and getting this alleged 
"full" version?  There's no filters on the phone lines that can tell
the difference between PKZIP and any other file. :-)

-- 
Kaleb Keithley                        kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov

Meep Meep                             Roadrunner
Veep veep                             Quayle

english@lincoln.ac.nz (04/18/91)

In article <1991Apr16.042431.10997@sactoh0.sac.ca.us>, mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Mark A. Holtz) writes:
> I was in a local software store last week, and was looking around,
> and noticed that some software packages, (most notable "PageMaker
> 4" and (I think) "Corel Draw") said on the box "NOT FOR EXPORT -
> For US and Canada Only". I realize why PC Tools Deluxe and PKZip
> are not allowed to be exported - It's due to encryption by DES
> standards. But, why Pagemaker?
> -- 

is simply commercial reasons, pagemaker will have a reseller/distributor
in other parts of the world, who have been given the entire market and
protected from people buying directly from the states. miscrsoft do this
also, as a result we pay twice the price for our microsoft products in
this part of the world.

can assure you it's not because of the compression routines, have
bought packages locally which use these compression routines.

grant english
english@lincoln.ac.nz

would you confirm or deny?

david@kessner.denver.co.us (David Kessner) (04/18/91)

In article <1991Apr17.211013.5@lincoln.ac.nz> english@lincoln.ac.nz writes:
>is simply commercial reasons, pagemaker will have a reseller/distributor
>in other parts of the world, who have been given the entire market and
>protected from people buying directly from the states. miscrsoft do this
>also, as a result we pay twice the price for our microsoft products in
>this part of the world.
>
>can assure you it's not because of the compression routines, have
>bought packages locally which use these compression routines.
>
>grant english
>english@lincoln.ac.nz
>
>would you confirm or deny?

For the most part, your right.  However, there are some programs that use
algorithms that are not for export.  For instance, PKZIP uses an ENCRYPTION
algorithm that cannot be exported, the 'non-USA' version does not
have this feature.  

While there is no doubt that 'commercial reasons' do play a major role, there
is really no way to know what the 'real' reasons are.  For instance, 
Flight Simulator has the 'not for export' label (at least I think it did).
It could be because of distrtibution (it is, after all, a game), but it also
contains 'technology' that could easily be put into 'military' purposes.

So, who's to say?  There are obviously two (or more) reasons why a product
may not be exported...

-- 
David Kessner - david@kessner.denver.co.us            | do {
1135 Fairfax, Denver CO  80220  (303) 377-1801 (p.m.) |    . . .
If you cant flame MS-DOS, who can you flame?          |    } while( jones);

jm9t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Josh Brian Mastronarde) (04/18/91)

Excerpts From Captions of netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc: 17-Apr-91 Re:
Not for Export? Kaleb Keithley@thyme.jpl (2599) 
>As for a "full" version of PKZIP versus any other version, I don't doubt
>the existance of one or the other, but, what stops anyone, anywhere in
>the world, from ftp'ing into a U.S. archive and getting this alleged 
>"full" version?  There's no filters on the phone lines that can tell
>the difference between PKZIP and any other file. :-)

Actually, I believe that many archives, at least SIMTEL, only have the
non-encryption version for the very reason that they are accessible from
outside the US.  I remember reading this in some official
documentation--either PKZIP or SIMTEL, I don't remember.  Of course, the
whole idea is stupid--it's not like foreign intelligence is going to
find out anything new from analyzing PKZIP, but that's the law.  

-Josh Mastronarde
-jm9t+@andrew.cmu.edu