[comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc] VGA card, WinGif, etc.

frankhua@cs.mcgill.ca (Frank X.J HUANG) (04/21/91)

Could anyone give me some advices (pros & cons) on those VGA cards,
especially ATI Wonder+, Trident and Paradise? I know ATI has a bus mouse,
but can't go to 1M video RAM(?), so it can't support 1024x768x256 mode.
Trident can up to 1M, but don't have a bus mouse.

Also, I can't find WinGif in cica, it used to be in pub/pc/win3/util? I
searched all the directories but still cannot find it. What happened?

Thanks in advance.

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Hubert Lai <LAIH@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> (04/21/91)

In article <1991Apr21.012648.17139@cs.mcgill.ca>, frankhua@cs.mcgill.ca (Frank
X.J HUANG) says:
>
>Could anyone give me some advices (pros & cons) on those VGA cards,
>especially ATI Wonder+, Trident and Paradise? I know ATI has a bus mouse,
>but can't go to 1M video RAM(?), so it can't support 1024x768x256 mode.
>Trident can up to 1M, but don't have a bus mouse.

Actually, ATI does manufacutre a 1 MB version of the VGA Wonder+.  It is
currently available.  Give them a call.  It comes with 512 KB and you can
add more memory to bring it up to 1 MB.  IT still comes with the mouse, etc.

<=- Hubert

ries@venice.SEDD.TRW.COM (Marc Ries) (04/24/91)

In article <91111.121310LAIH@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> LAIH@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Hubert Lai) writes:
>
>Actually, ATI does manufacutre a 1 MB version of the VGA Wonder+.  It is
>currently available.  Give them a call.  It comes with 512 KB and you can
>add more memory to bring it up to 1 MB.  IT still comes with the mouse, etc.

 I second what one previous poster said: the new ATI Wonder+ is a DOG!
 Bark, Bark.  I have an old Wonder, a old "new" Wonder+ (Max 512K) and
 just received the "upgrade" Wonder+ (1Mb max) board.  On a 486-33, using
 the same hardware settings and drivers, the new ATI is an order of
 magnitude slower on start-up.  For example, on LucusFilms game,
 "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe" (sp?), the intro screen goes thru
 three distinct "fills" over seemingly 4-5 seconds where the old boards
 will just flash it up in about a second or less.

 I only had the new board since yesterday and I have already made
 arrangements with ATI to send it back 8-(

 Marc Ries

frank@yunexus.yorku.ca (Frank Pikelner) (04/25/91)

In article <1065@venice.SEDD.TRW.COM> ries@venice.sedd.trw.com (Marc Ries) writes:
>In article <91111.121310LAIH@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> LAIH@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Hubert Lai) writes:
>>
>>Actually, ATI does manufacutre a 1 MB version of the VGA Wonder+.  It is
>>currently available.  Give them a call.  It comes with 512 KB and you can
>>add more memory to bring it up to 1 MB.  IT still comes with the mouse, etc.
>
> I second what one previous poster said: the new ATI Wonder+ is a DOG!
> Bark, Bark.  I have an old Wonder, a old "new" Wonder+ (Max 512K) and
> just received the "upgrade" Wonder+ (1Mb max) board.  On a 486-33, using
> the same hardware settings and drivers, the new ATI is an order of
> magnitude slower on start-up.  For example, on LucusFilms game,
> "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe" (sp?), the intro screen goes thru
> three distinct "fills" over seemingly 4-5 seconds where the old boards
> will just flash it up in about a second or less.
>
> I only had the new board since yesterday and I have already made
> arrangements with ATI to send it back 8-(
>
> Marc Ries


I strongly disagree with Marc. I own two original ATI VGA Wonder (256k and 512k)
and I have know purchased two new ATI VGA Wonder+ 1MB (256k and 1MB). The new
1MB version of the card IS faster than the older cards. On the 1MB version  
when the full 1MB of RAM is installed the full potential of the card can be
realized. When using the card and not directly utilizing the 1MB of RAM ( ie.
using Windows 3.0 in 640x480x256 or 800x600x256 modes) the card will use the
remainder of the memory for buffering functions. The newer ATI VGA Wonder+ 1MB
also includes three refresh rates 60 Hz, 70Hz, and 72Hz (new on the 1MB version)
for reduced flickering. I will admit that this card is not blzing fast, but   
that is because it is not designed to be. If someone wants a fast graphics card
they should consider one that has an onboard processor (say the ATI Ultra , one
of the best in its class). When testing the new VGA Wonder+ 1MB with PC Diags
Bench tests 1.1 I do notice a difference the new card with the FULL meg of RAM
installed performs most of the tests 50-100% faster then the original VGA
Wonder. I realize the above posting refers to the semi new Wonder+ 512Kmax
board, before purchasing our new 1MB board we were provided the 512k version
to demo. The results, the 512k version was under the bench tests for Windows 3.0
a little slower than the 1MB version. And just to make things a little more
interesting I've compared the ATI product to ones with the TRIDENT and TSUENG
chip sets. Although the ATI board was not the fastest it compared well against
the Trident 8900 and Tseung 4000 based boards.

Just as a note ATI, from my experience, is the only company providing upgrade
programs for video cards, excellent technical support, BBS, and regular driver
updates. Also they will be announcing their new ATI Wonder XL card with a 
similar chipset to the Edsun with antialiasing.

Frank Pikelner
Technical Assistant
York University, Toronto, Cnd
frank@cs.yorku.ca

ahnc@drwho.ee.ufl.edu (Chieteuk Ahn) (04/25/91)

In article 12496 Frank Pikelner wrote
>Just as a note ATI, from my experience, is the only company providing upgrade
>>                                                                     ^^^^^^^
>programs for video cards, excellent technical support, BBS, and regular driver
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>updates. Also they will be announcing their new ATI Wonder XL card with a
>>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>similar chipset to the Edsun with antialiasing.

I have an ATI VGA Wonder /w 512KB and BIOS ROM V3.5. Can I upgrade it to
a newest one, such as Wonder+ 1MB? Does Wonder+ /w 1MB exist? 
I don't want anything already released to vendors but with some snail(?) in it.
If you know, please mail me how to upgrade and the cost.

By the way when will they announce the new ATI Wonder XL? Do you know anything
about that board spec. such as resolutions and colors supported, s/w drivers, etc?

Thanks in advance.

plim@hpsgwp.sgp.hp.com (Peter Lim) (04/26/91)

> Just as a note ATI, from my experience, is the only company providing upgrade
> programs for video cards, excellent technical support, BBS, and regular driver
> updates. Also they will be announcing their new ATI Wonder XL card with a 
> similar chipset to the Edsun with antialiasing.
> 
Upgrade ?? Where ? Who ? How ? ???? I have heard this mentioned before but
didn't get any reply when I probed further. I have an original ATI 
VGA Wonder 512K with mouse. How do I upgrade to this new 1 MB VGA Wonder+
and how much does it cost ? Please let me know.

ps:  I am located in Singapore, so how much will the shipping cost ?


Regards,     ___o``\________________________________________________ ___ __ _ _
Peter Lim.   V````\  @ @ . .. ... .- -> 76 MIPS at under US$20K !!   --- -- - -
                  /.------------------------------------------------ === == = =
             >--_//      . .. ... .- -> 57 MIPS at under US$12K !!
                `'       . If you guessed SUN, IBM or DEC, you are wrong !

E-mail:  plim@hpsgwg.HP.COM     Snail-mail:  Hewlett Packard Singapore,
Tel:     (065)-279-2289                      (ICDS, ICS)
Telnet:        520-2289                      1150 Depot Road,
                                             Singapore   0410.

#include <standard_disclaimer.hpp>

vahamri@eos.ncsu.edu (VINCENT A HAMRICK) (04/26/91)

	Just trying to be helpful, but I have read on this net several times
where people have upgraded to ATI Wonder+ and were so dissapointed that they
sent them back.  I myself use the ATI Wonder in 800x600x256 mode and the
graphics are great, but the text scroll is very choppy and alittle slow.  It's
a great card made by a good company, but I want to see a much faster card
before a better resolution.

'Inconceivable...' -Vecini

Vince
vahamri@eos.ncsu.edu

frank@yunexus.yorku.ca (Frank Pikelner) (04/27/91)

In article <1991Apr26.132713.19466@ncsu.edu> vahamri@eos.ncsu.edu (VINCENT A HAMRICK) writes:
>
>	Just trying to be helpful, but I have read on this net several times
>where people have upgraded to ATI Wonder+ and were so dissapointed that they
>sent them back.  I myself use the ATI Wonder in 800x600x256 mode and the
>graphics are great, but the text scroll is very choppy and alittle slow.  It's
>a great card made by a good company, but I want to see a much faster card
>before a better resolution.
>
>'Inconceivable...' -Vecini
>
>Vince
>vahamri@eos.ncsu.edu

ATI does have a much faster card, the ATI ULTRA. The current class of card
like the WONDER+ must relly heavily on the system CPU for their work. These   
cards will,therefore, provide better performance on faster machines with 
higher clock rates. Cards like the ATI ULTRA, NEC GRAPHICS engine have a 
processor on the graphic board that is dedicated for optimized graphic
functions - these cards are blazzing fast. Unfortunatly to purchase one of 
these cards one must spend in excess of $500. Although I am not an expert
on the subject, I do not think that non-processor based graphic cards can
provide dramatically faster graphics what ever one can do to them because the
main factor will always be the system CPU and clock rate. To sell the cheaper
cards the manufacturers like ATI have to add other features, like resolution,
in order to sell their products. But, I agree with Vince, if I had my choice,
and it was possible without spending much money I would prefer a faster card to
one with less resolution.

Frank Pikelner
Technical Assistant
York University, Toronto, Cnd
frank@cs.yorku.ca