[comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc] Masm V6

pbg@cs.brown.edu (Peter Galvin) (05/04/91)

I just received an add from Microsoft for Masm 6.0.  It's an upgrade
offer, and would cost me $75 to go from 5.1.  This is the first I've
heard of 6.0.  Does anyone know if it is out yet?  What it's list
price is?  Thanks.
--
					      --Peter

------------------------------------------    --------------------------------
Peter Baer Galvin       		      (401) 863-7623
Systems Manager, Brown Univ. Comp. Sci.       pbg@cs.brown.edu
Box 1910 (115 Waterman Street)                uunet!brunix!pbg
Providence, RI 02912  (02906)		      pbg@browncs.bitnet

jgay@digi.lonestar.org (john gay) (05/06/91)

From article <PBG.91May3142006@bob.cs.brown.edu>, by pbg@cs.brown.edu (Peter Galvin):
> I just received an add from Microsoft for Masm 6.0.  It's an upgrade
> offer, and would cost me $75 to go from 5.1.  This is the first I've
> heard of 6.0.  Does anyone know if it is out yet?  What it's list
> price is?  Thanks.

I just got my offer also.  Since I originally paid about $65 for masm 5.1
I very seriously doubt that I will upgrade.  I saw a headline about 6.0
coming out, but have not had the time to read the article - don't know what
the upgrade gets me (also haven't read the stuff with the upgrade offer -
just enough to get the price).  I will probably "upgrade" to tasm anyway -
all the rest of my tools are going that way, mainly because the quality
of micros*ft stuff is going | while the price is going ^.
                            V                          |

john gay.

dcdeno@panisse.berkeley.edu (D. Curtis Deno) (05/08/91)

>From article <PBG.91May3142006@bob.cs.brown.edu>, by pbg@cs.brown.edu
(Peter Galvin):
>> I just received an add from Microsoft for Masm 6.0.  It's an upgrade
>> offer, and would cost me $75 to go from 5.1.  This is the first I've
>> heard of 6.0.  Does anyone know if it is out yet?  What it's list
>> price is?  Thanks.
>
>I just got my offer also.  Since I originally paid about $65 for masm 5.1
>I very seriously doubt that I will upgrade.  I saw a headline about 6.0
>coming out, but have not had the time to read the article - don't know what
>the upgrade gets me (also haven't read the stuff with the upgrade offer -
>just enough to get the price).  I will probably "upgrade" to tasm anyway -
>all the rest of my tools are going that way, mainly because the quality

I attended the MASM 6.0 public/press unveiling at the San Jose
Convention Center
on 4/30/91 (part of some sort of Corporate Developers Conference put on by
Microsoft).  As luck would have it, I got MASM 6.0 for a door prize that night.
Its up on my 386 system now.

A careful read of the upgrade glossy covers the main improvements/changes.
On the plus side, if you already work with MS C 6.00A and PWB 1.1 (the
integrated development environment) MASM nows joins C 6.00 and BASIC 7.0
with good on-line help, examples, documentation.  I smiled when during the
question period Microsoft admitted that omitting the printed docs with C 6.0
was a mistake ("we heard you" the man explained).  The other major goodie
for me is the strong integration of a mixed C/MASM programming environment.
C prototypes and structures now have direct MASM counterparts and MASM 6.0
can translate a .h file to a .inc file.

They were also excited about the sparsity of NOPs due to a n-pass assembler
that could arrange things better.  The near/far conditional jump restrictions
of the Intel architecture they claimed to have overcome by reordering the
conditional test and jumps.  Although MASM 6.0 can work with 32-bit addresses
and has 486 specific support, it does not come with a DOS extender or linker
to permit true flat 32-bit code executables by itself.

The MASM 6.0 package includes the same PWB 1.1 as in the MS C 6.00A upgrade,
but does offer a more recent set of utilities: the linker, CodeView, and
the smartdrive/ramdrive/himem group.  I installed the DOS only stuff with
examples and full help docs and it ate up about 4Mb, though I could trim
about 0.5-1 Mb in redundant stuff from C 6.00, Windows 3.0, ...

I'm not crazy about programming in assembler anymore.  I have found that
inline assembler works very well for me.  I don't need the new, expanded
MACRO extensions in MASM 6.0 that offer high level conditional constructs
like C or Pascal.  All in all, I'm glad to have it.  The upgrade price
of $75 is about what I could justify, but I'm sure your mileage will vary.

-- Curt Deno
   dcdeno@united.Berkeley.EDU
   grad student and part-time software developer

rcollins@altos86.Altos.COM (Robert Collins) (05/09/91)

In article <1991May6.164522.8695@digi.lonestar.org> jgay@digi.lonestar.org (john gay) writes:
>I will probably "upgrade" to tasm anyway -
>all the rest of my tools are going that way, mainly because the quality
>of micros*ft stuff is going | while the price is going ^.
>                            V                          |
>

I will certainly not try and defend MS, because I am probably considered
an MS basher.  However, I was a beta tester on MASM 6.0, for whatever
that is worth.  

If you are going to use TASM to do 32-bit code, or use 32-bit equates,
think again.  TASM is (totally) messed up in these areas.  I called
Borland about it, and they weren't concerned about fixing it.  In fact,
they didn't even commit to looking at it in future versions (current
V2.0).  In fact, if you are planning to use TASM for ANY protected mode
stuff, where you need to build relocatable code for descriptor table
accesses, TASM simply has too many bugs to even work around.

MASM 6.0 isn't without its bugs.  I still know a few that are going
into production.  But at least it is useable, and I can work around
all (but one) of the bugs that I know about.

If you need '386 or '486 stuff, TASM doesn't support it correctly...too many
bugs.  If you plan to use TASM for generic, 8088 code, then you probably
won't have a problem.

Borland LINK is a different story.  I like it very much, and think they
did a marvelous job on it.  Unfortunately, I can't use it because it too
has some bugs, relative to 32-bit segments, that can't be worked around.
So, all the hype about Borland, and their supposedly great TASM is 
probably by people that don't do assembly language programming for
a living...especially in 32-bit protected mode.

P.S. One thing that totally turns me off about a product that claims to
be 100% compatible, is when the first thing I try, fails, and can't be
reconciled.  This has happened with both TASM and TLINK.

-- 
"Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."  Mat. 4:10
Robert Collins                 UUCP:  ...!sun!altos86!rcollins
HOME:  (408) 225-8002
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