srlncnc@badger.dosli.govt.nz (Chris Crook) (05/13/91)
I'm interested in X servers running on PC's. I have some information on a
number of products, and have grabbed the x.windows file held at
rjc@math.princetown.edu. However that has no comments more recent than
September last year.
I'd like to know about servers running under either MSDOS or Microsoft
Windows. The products I am aware of are (in no particular order)
are:
HCL-eXceed Plus Hummingbird Communications Ltd
* HCL-eXceed/W
X11/AT Integrated Inference Engines
* X11/AT Unipalm Ltd
PC-Xview Graphic Software Systems
PC-Xsight Locus Computing Corporation, or
perhaps Transparent Technology
* Xvision Visionware
Those asterisked run under Microsoft Windows.
I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who has used more
than one of these products (or any others), and can describe differences
they noticed between them.
Also we are currently running the Clarkson University TCP/IP implementation,
using packet drivers to interface with Novell version 2.15. Do any X servers
run in this environment? Have you any recommendations on alternatives.
Send replies to comp.windows.x or comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc, or to me directly
at srlncnc@badger.dosli.govt.nz. I'll summarize if there is sufficient
response.
Thanks in advance for any info..
Chris Crook, Research and Development Group,
Department of Survey and Land Information, New Zealand.srlncnc@badger.dosli.govt.nz (Chris Crook) (05/28/91)
There follows a summary of respones to my query about X windows
servers running on AT class microcomputers.
Thanks to all those who replied. The following notes are in no
particular order, except that I have put a lengthy product listing
that I received at the beginning. I've added a few annotations to
this on the basis of other information I've got.
The main players seem to be Hummingbird communications HCL-eXceed (DOS
and MS windows), Unipalm X11/AT (windows), Locus computing (PC-Xsight),
Spectragraphics/GSS PC-Xview (DOS) and Visionware Xvision (windows).
Also "coming real soon" is Quarterdecks Desqview/X. This promises to
be a really exciting product, particularly as it will provide
portability of X based applications to the PC. While many developers
will appreciate the portability and using a non-proprietary system
rather than MS-Windows, the phenomenal success of MS Windows (at least
according to the computer press) will have no doubt cut deeply into
their potential market. No doubt this has a great bearing on the
extravagent advertising Quarterdeck indulged in late last year (a bid
for vapourware of the century???). Hopefully the portability to Unix
will encourage developers to use Desqview/X. Time only will tell.
Returning to the products available now, I was specifically asking for
comparisons of the various products available. The most informative
reply I got was from Steve Cohen (see below), who has tried many of these
products. His strong recommendation is for HCL-eXceed, using the FTP
software PC/TCP transport and VGA graphics. Esmond Pitt recommended
Xvision in favour of PC-Xview. Stephen Guerke noted that there is a
review of PC based X servers in the current PC Magazine -
unfortunately I haven't tracked down a copy of this yet as we seem to
be a few months behind! Digital Review (July 16, 1990) compared
HCL-eXceed with PC-Xsight and found the former much preferable. On
the basis of these comments HCL-eXceed seems to be the unanimous
choice for a PC based X server, at least as far as performance is
concerned.
Once again, many thanks to all those who responded to my original posting.
Chris Crook
srlncnc@badger.dosli.govt.nz
Note: standard disclaimers apply to the above!!
=========================================================================
(Additional notes in this list marked with *, May 1991 CC)
May 1991
From: miguel@txiki.radiology.arizona.edu
This is the summary I've got from Charles Blair <chas@stax.uchicago.edu>:
-----
A) Vendor List
AGE (619-565-7373) offers the XoftWare TIGA.
Bell Technologies (Fremont, CA: 415-659-9097)
PC DECWindows a.k.a. the PC DECWindows Display Facility is an
MS-DOS application that turns your PC into an X11R3 terminal.
It supports DECnet. Available from DEC. [Dennis Giokas
(giokas@mosaic.enet.dec.com), 3/90]
HP (800-752-0900) has the "HP Accelerated X Window Display
Server" (HP AXDS/PC; HP part D2300B) which will run on any
AT-class DOS machine with 640KB, MSDOS 3.1 or higher, and the
HP Intelligent Graphics Controller 10 card, to which the
X11R3-based server is downloaded (avoiding
performance-limitations from PC RAM-size and processor speed).
[from John Kempff (kempff@hppad.hp.com), 3/90]
Hummingbird Communications (Canada 416-470-1203) produces the
HCL-eXceed and HCL-eXceed Plus for EGA, VGA, and VGA+ controllers.
** Also HCL-eXceed/W for windows.
Information Network Solutions also offers a product called
HCL-eXceed for the *86. The fax is 02-4122079 inside
Australia, 612-4122079 from overseas.
Integrated Inference Machines (714-978-6201 or -6776) is
shipping X11/AT, an X server that runs under MS-windows. The
server converts an IBM-AT into an X terminal which can
simultaneously run MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows applications.
** Now marketed by Unipalm Limited (England 954-211797, Fax
954-211244).
Intelligent Decisions, Inc. (Sunnyvale, CA: 408-734-3730)
IBM is rumored to offer a product; part #5709-029.
Locus Computing (800-955-6287; CA: 213-670-6500; UK: +44 296
89911) has a server called PC-Xsight which also appears in
Acer's X terminal.
Metrolink Inc. (+1-305-566-9586, sales@metrolink.com; in
Europe contact ADNT, (33 1) 3956 5333) ships an implementation
of X11R4 for several 386 systems.
Pericom's TeemTalk-X for IBM clones allows toggling between X
and DOS. Information: +44 (0908) 560022. [5/90]
DESQview/X from Quarterdeck (213-392-9851; 213-399-3802 FAX)
incorporates X into the DESQview multi-tasking DOS
environment.
SpectraGraphics/GSS (503-641-2200) makes PC-Xview, an
MSDOS-based X server which interfaces with PC/TCP Plus
networking software from FTP Software and Excelan's LAN
WorkPlace for DOS. The server works with (a) 286, 386, 486
(b) EGA, VGA, DGIS displays. (c) DOS 3.2 and above (d)
Microsoft, Logitech, Mouse Systems Mice (e) 640k memory up to
16 MB memory [the PC-Xview/16 is available for PCs with
extended memory].
VisionWare's XVision is a Microsoft Windows-based X server
which allows an IBM-compatible PC or PS/2 to display X clients
running on a networked computer at the same time as local DOS
programs. VisionWare is at 612-377-3627 or vision@vware.mn.org
(UK: +44 532 788858 and vware@vision.uucp).
Xnth is an implementation of X11 R4 which runs on AT-bus PCs
running DOS 3.3 or higher. It currently supports 1280X1024 or
1024X768 resolution monitors at 256 colors (out of 16M) with
hardware accelleration for graphics and text operations. It
currently utilizes a TCP/IP byte stream over Ethernet.
Information: Jerry Norman, Nth Graphics, Ltd., 1-800-624-7552.
* StarNet Communications Corp 408-739-0881 Fax 408-739-0936
* makes an X server that runs on MS-DOS. MicroX has TCP/IP built
* in, and will work with any ethernet card that has a driver
* that conforms to the PC/TCP Packet Driver Specification --
* drivers for the most common card and in 256-color on most
* super VGA cards.
B) More detailed info on some vendors:
I. Server running under MS (Microsoft) Windows
1) Integrated Inference Machines (714-978-6201 or -6776)
Contact : John Walsh
X Server version : X11R3 (with R4 font support)
-- No plan for R4 yet
Network SW : supports PC-NFS
DOS version : 3.0
Memory Requirement: 2 MB
Graphic cards : EGA, VGA, 8514
AT : 286, 386, 486
PS/2 : Model 80 with 8514
Simultaneously run X, MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows applications: Yes
Cut & Paste between windows (includes X emulation window) : Yes
Price:
$495 (1-9 units)
$465 (10-24 units)
$395 (10-24 units with document sharing -- 1 doc/5 units)
$395 (25-95 units)
$325 (25-95 units with document sharing -- 1 doc/5 units)
Available: Yes
* Now marketed by Unipalm.
Single unit price 450 pounds.
Requires a TCP/IP carrier. PC/TCP kernel (serves X windows only)
available for 160 pounds.
2) SpectraGraphics/GSS (503-641-2200)
Contact : Mike Cox
Product Name : PC-Xvision
X Server version : X11R3
-- R4 is available in the summer
Network SW : supports PC-NFS
DOS version : 3.2
Memory Requirement: 3 MB (2MB for M/S Windows)
Graphic card : EGA, VGA, DGIS
AT (PS/2) : 286, 386, 486
Simultaneously run X, MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows applications: Yes
Cut & Paste between windows (includes X emulation window) : Yes
Price:
$449 (1 unit)
$359.2 (20-49 units -- 20% discount)
$336.75 (50+ units -- 25% discount)
(NOTE: The cost for the upgrade to X11R4 server is $150.
It is available in the summer.)
Available: Yes
****
3) Hummingbird Communications Ltd (416) 470-1203 Fax (416) 470-1207
Contact : Jan Adamek
Product Name : HCL-eXceed/W
X Server version : X11R4
Network SW : requires TCP/IP carrier
DOS version : > 3.0, MS Windows 3.0
Memory Requirement: 2MB
Graphic card : Supported by MS windows
AT (PS/2) : 286, 386, 486
Simultaneously run X, MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows applications: Yes
Cut & Paste between windows (includes X emulation window) : Yes
Price:
US $595 (1 unit)
US $536 (2-4 units)
US $476 (5-9 units)
US $417 (10+ units)
Available: Yes
****
II. Native Server (Not running under Microsoft Windows)
1) Locus Computing (800-955-6287; CA: 213-670-6500)
Contact : Dada Halili (213-337-5251)
Product Name : PC-Xsight
X Server version : X11R3 & X11R4
Network SW : supports PC-NFS 3.1+
DOS version : 3.1+
Memory Requirement: 2 MB upto 16MB extended memory
Graphic card : EGA, VGA, 8514A
AT : 286, 386, 486
PS/2 : Model 70, 80
Swicthing between DOS and X Server: Yes
Price:
$495 (with Locus TCP/IP)
$425 (without Locus TCP/IP)
~$382.5 (12-19 unit, 10% discount)
~$361.25 (20+ unit, 15% discount)
Available: Yes
(NOTE: Microsoft Windows support in 5-6 months.)
2) SpectraGraphics/GSS (503-641-2200)
Contact : Mike Cox
Product Name : PC-Xview
X Server version : X11R3
-- R4 is available in the summer
Network SW : supports PC-NFS
DOS version : 2.1.2
Memory Requirement: 640KB upto 16MB extended memory
Graphic card : EGA, VGA, DGIS
AT (PS/2) : 286, 386, 486
Swicthing between DOS and X Server: Yes
Price:
$445 (1 unit)
~$356 (20-49 units -- 20% discount)
~$333.75 (50+ units -- 25% discount)
(NOTE: The cost for the upgrade to X11R4 server is $150.
It is available in the summer.)
Available: Yes
****
3) Hummingbird Communications Ltd (416) 470-1203 Fax (416) 470-1207
Contact : Jan Adamek
Product Name : HCL-eXceed/Plus
X Server version : X11R4
Network SW : requires TCP/IP carrier
DOS version : > 3.0
Memory Requirement: 1.64MB
Graphic card : EGA, VGA, many Super VGA
AT (PS/2) : 286, 386, 486
Simultaneously run X, MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows applications: Yes
Cut & Paste between windows (includes X emulation window) : Yes
Price:
US $595 (1 unit)
US $536 (2-4 units)
US $476 (5-9 units)
US $417 (10+ units)
Available: Yes
****
==========================================================================
May 1991
From: Stephen Guerke <sguerke@brahms.udel.edu>
I don't know if you get PC MAGAZINE, but the current issue has a
rather lengthy discussion of just this issue. It mentions and reviews
several of the products that you mentioned in your list. Unfortunatly
I don't have the magazine here with me or I would try to summarize it
for you. On product (not yet available....but "real soon now") that
looks like a winner is DESQviewX by Quaterdeck. Apparantly this
product (when available) will solve (I'll belive it when I see it)a
lot of the complaints about the other products...the major one being
that they tend to run slowly on a PC..
==========================================================================
May 1991
From: cohen@mips2.ma30.bull.com (Steve Cohen)
I have been doing studies and benchmarks on the various X-SERVER
products that are available for PC's.
After much research the three products from Hummingbird, are by far the
fastest, easiest to use, and real implementations of X11 R4.
Hummingbirds EXCEED/W for WINDOWs 3.0 is almost twice as fast as
X-VISION and almost an order of magnitude faster than X11-AT.
X-VISION is very difficult to install and if your computer cannot
do an rsh, is a pain to start up.
EXCEED/w gives good performance on a 386sx based system.
It is much better to use PC/TCP from FTP software than the other transports.
For non Windows 3.0 systems use EXCEED/P from Hummingbird. It is an R4
server and takes advantage of extended memory. It is much faster than
any of the other X-SERVERS, and will run with PC-NFS, ftp's software
or EXCELLAN.
the Locus PC-XSIGHT product is not particularly easy to install,
has a lot of bugs, and is slow.
I have used the Hummingbird products on 286s, 386sx, 386s and a 486. It is
almost twice as fast with a VGA card instead of an EGA card.
Steve Cohen
Bull HN
The information contained in this message is not the official opinion of
Bull HN
=====================================================================
May 1991
From: ejp@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Esmond Pitt)
>
> PC-Xview Graphic Software Systems
>
> * Xvision Visionware
I have used both of these and would recommend the latter over the
former, if you can live with the different environment, i.e. windows,
no xdm/mwm on the host (good!). Xview seemed slow and clunky to me.
==================================================================
May 1991
From: Larry Wible <larry@starnet.com>
Received you letter via NASA/Ames. I would like to introduce
you to MicroX. StarNet Communications Corp 408-739-0881 Fax
408-739-0936 makes an X server that runs on MS-DOS. MicroX
has TCP/IP built in, and will work with any ethernet card
that has a driver that conforms to the PC/TCP Packet Driver
Specification -- drivers for the most common card and in
256-color on most super VGA cards.
Other information follows to the address that is at the
bottom of your letter. [Contact Larry Wible <larry@starnet.com>]
=====================================================================
=====================================================================
x.windows file from rjc@mith.princeton.edu dated September 1990
From: Raymond Chen <rjc@math.princeton.edu>
---
Thanks for all the answers concerning my question about X on DOS.
Here is a summarize because of the great interest in that topic.
(Productdescriptions are seperated via "-")
-Axel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I recently ran into a new one which runs under MS Windows (286/386
only). Implied is that the X Windows will run under any display
configuration which has an MS Windows device driver.
Product: X11/AT
Company: Integrated Inference Machines
1468 E. Katella Ave.
Anaheim, CA 92805
(714) 978-6776
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transparent Technology has a product called PC-Xsight which is apparently
a full implementation of X 11.3 under MS-DOS, using TCP/IP over an Ethernet
connection to talk to the server. They advertise in Unix Review, among
other places. Total cost of their software is around $500, with another
$700 buying you a Western Digital Ethernet card, a Paradise VGA card, and a
Logitech mouse, which they selected and vend because of proven value &
compatibility with PC-Xsight. I don't have their address handy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Graphic Software Systems (GSS) offers PC-Xview, an X Window server on a PC.
PC-Xview interfaces with PC/TCP Plus networking software from FTP Software
and Excelan's LAN WorkPlace for DOS. GSS is a distributor for the PC/TCP
product and can offer you one stop shopping for all of your PC X Server needs.
PC-Xview works with:
a) 286, 386, 486
b) EGA, VGA, DGIS displays. DGIS displays are available from Compaq,
Dell, HP, NEC, Imagraph, Control Systems, and others
c) DOS 3.2 and above
d) Microsoft, Logitech, Mouse Systems Mice
e) 640k memory up to 16 MB memory
f) Network cards from 3Com, WD, Interlan, Intel, Proteon, UB,
Nat'l Semi, Tiara, and Excelan. Also SLIP.
For more info, contact:
Jim Thomassen (uunet!mntgfx!gssc!jimt)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VisionWare XVISION - The X Connection for Microsoft Windows
XVision is a Microsoft Windows based X server which allows an IBM-compatible PC
or PS/2 to display X clients running on a networked computer, at the same time
as local DOS programs. The main features are:
o A PC becomes an X Window System graphics terminal.
o Microsoft Windows based X server.
o X clients and DOS applications appear on the same screen.
o Cut and paste between X clients and DOS applications using the Windows
Clipboard.
o Full support for X11 protocols.
o Use a standard X Window manager, or let Microsoft Windows manage X
clients.
o Independent of specific PC graphics display system.
X FOR WINDOWS
XVision is a Microsoft Windows application, which means that you can run X
Window System clients alongside DOS programs on a PC workstation. This provides
a common user interface for DOS and X applications, and allows cut and paste
operations to transfer information between them.
Because the server runs under Microsoft Windows it can use any graphics display
screen for which a Windows driver is available. This includes EGA and VGA, as
well as large high resolution monitors.
XVISION SERVER
The XVision server is based on the sample server distributed by the X
Consortium. It runs on a PC under Microsoft Windows and supports the standard X
protocol between clients and the server over TCP/IP network links. This is the
most efficient method of implementation since the X protocol is optimised to
reduce the overheads involved in passing graphics requests to and receiving
events from a workstation.
XVision does not require any special software to be installed on a host system
and it can accept requests from X clients running anywhere on the network. The
interface between XVision and the PC network software is implemented as a DOS
TSR program, which provides a flexible method of supporting different networks.
XVision allows cut and paste operations between X clients to be carried out in
the normal way using the X selection mechanism. It also enables the data
associated with a text selection to be mirrored on the Windows Clipboard. This
enables data to be copied between X clients and DOS applications.
The server is capable of running a few simple clients on a PC with 640 kbytes
of memory. It implements virtual memory to allow a greater number of clients
and more complex clients to be run. The virtual memory mechanism will make use
of expanded memory if it is available, and if there is insufficient expanded
memory it will use the hard disk.
Clients can be initiated from the PC, or may be started anywhere on the network.
For a UNIX host, the X Display Manager can be set up to allow a user to log in
and execute the first X client. Otherwise, TELNET or another terminal emulator
facility can be used to initiate the X session.
WINDOW MANAGEMENT
There are two different ways of using XVision. The first way is for the whole
X world to occupy one Microsoft Window, and all X clients appear within this
window. The Microsoft Window may be positioned on the screen in relation to
other DOS windows or iconised in the normal Windows manner. To manage individual
X client windows within the single Microsoft Window, a standard X window manager
such as UWM must be used.
When used in this single window display mode you can specify that the "virtual
display" should be larger than the size of the PC screen, and Microsoft Windows
scroll bars can then be used to alter the visible area.
The second way to use XVision is for each X client to run within its own
Microsoft Window, and here individual X client window management may be achieved
by using the standard Microsoft Windows management facilities. This method
provides X applications with a Presentation Manager look and feel to their user
interface. When a client opens a window it supplies "hints" such as size, title
and icon which are mapped to equivalent features of a Microsoft Window.
X FONTS SUPPLIED
Compiled versions of the standard X fonts are distributed with XVision, and you
have the option to install all of them or just a minimum set. A Microsoft
Windows font file is associated with each X font file, and contains the
character bitmaps. All the other properties of the X font remain in the X font
file and many are used by the server when drawing text.
XVISION AND VISIONWARE
XVision is one of a range of VisionWare workstation integration products and
services. Also available is PC-Connect, which allows IBM-compatible PC or PS/2
computers to act as multi-windowed workstations connected to one or more UNIX
host systems without the need for the X Windows system. SQL-Connect enables
workstation users to access information held in remote SQL databases. The
VisionWare strategy is to combine PCs and multi-user systems into a unified
operating environment, so that maximum benefits can be obtained from
information processing technology.
SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
An IBM-compatible PC/AT or PS/2 computer with at least an 80286 processor.
At least 640kbytes of memory. XVision will also use LIM/EMS 3.2 or 4.0
expanded memory if available.
A hard disk.
Either a 1.2Mbyte 5 1/4" disk drive, or a 1.44Mbyte 3 1/2" drive.
Windows compatible graphics adapter and display.
A mouse is strongly recommended. A three-button mouse is ideal, but a two-button
mouse can be used together with the emulation facilities built into XVision.
A local area network card and networking software.
MS-DOS or PC-DOS version 3.0 or later.
A run-time version of Microsoft Windows may be included with XVision (ask your
supplier or call VisionWare). If you want to use full Windows then you need
Windows/286 or Windows/386 version 2.0 or later.
XVISION PACKAGES
There are two XVision packages, one containing 5 1/4" disks (1.2 Mbyte) and the
other containing 3 1/2" disks (1.44Mbyte). Choose the appropriate package for
your disk drive.
AVAILABILITY
XVision is supplied with network communications interface programs for various
TCP/IP networking software. These include Locus TCP/IP for DOS, FTP PC/TCP and
Excelan LAN WorkPlace. More networks are being added continually, and you
contact your supplier or VisionWare for exact details of availability.
(C) VisionWare Limited, 1989. All Rights Reserved.
The names of companies referred to herein, their corporate logos, the names of
their hardware and software may be tradenames, trademarks or registered
trademarks of their respective owners.
The policy of VisionWare Limited is to develop and enhance its products and
services and it therefore reserves the right to alter without notice the
specification and/or design thereof.
VisionWare Limited, The Leeds Business Park, Morley, Leeds LS27 0JG, UK
Tel +44-532-522020. Fax +44-532-526614. Telex 556283. Email: vware@vison.uucp
VisionWare, PO Box 3991, Minneapolis, MN 55405, USA
Tel +1-612-377-3627
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For those interested in using X Windows Version 11 Release 3 on an
IBM-AT (80286 or 80386) or compatible, Integrated Inference Machines
is shipping a high performance X11 server called X11/AT which runs under
MS-DOS using Microsoft Windows for $395. The server converts an IBM-AT into
an X Windows terminal which can simultaneosuly run MS-DOS and
Microsoft Windows applications. FTP and TELNET are also supplied.
X11/AT requires a system with 2Meg of extended memory. Because X11/AT
runs under Microsoft Windows, a large variety of monochrome and color
displays are supported including EGA, VGA, and special high resolution
displays.
For more information, contact:
Charles Baecker
Integrated Inference Machines
1468 E. Katella Avenue
Anahiem, California 92805
Phone (714)978-6201
FAX (714)939-0746
===============================================================================
And more articles...
>From smikes@cbnewsi.ATT.COM (steven.mikes), 3 May 90
You can run X on PC's without X cards. There is X/Sight from Locus Computing,
XVision from VisionWare Ltd., and XView from GSS, Inc. Of these products, so
far I have found that XView is actually the fastest in terms of performance,
and was one of the easiest to install.
They all have dependencies upon some third party vendor's TCP/IP software to
handle the X protocol; the best of which is from FTP Software. None of these
packages were easy to install on the PC; in fact Locus' product was by far the
most difficult. It took quite a bit of hacking to brute force X/Sight into
working because the documentation was poorly organized and lacked adequate
"real" examples.
XVision had its problems too, but they were not related to XVision, rather they
were MS Windows problems because of Windows 3.0 was still a beta release. The
XVision installation process was the easiest because it has to conform to the
standard MS Windows installation guidelines which makes it easy for novices.
It also needed some "persuasion" before being able to work correctly, but once
it did it worked as advertised, although somewhat slow.
XView was easy to install, their documentation is adequate but could use some
minor improvement. It is the fastest of the three packages even though I am
told that I am using the slowest of the Ethernet boards. I personally like
XView the best, although novice PC users will probably like XVision better
because of the familiar MS Windows interface. XView, like X/Sight allows you
to hot key between your X session and local DOS.
I can't tell you much more than this, because I have written evauations for
articles to be published in an upcoming issue of UnixWorld, about these three
fine products. Take your pick, any of them are OK, but I feel that speed,
reliability, and ease of installation are very important so I personally would
recommend XView (if you are not a PC novice) or XVision if you are a MS Windows
junkie like myself.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From Len Jacobson, Amdahl Corporation (len@vlss.amdahl.com) 27 Aug 90
I have been using XVision from VisionWare, Ltd., on a 286, using FTP's
PC/TCP communications software via a 3COM 3C503 Ethernet board. For one
that does not need to work "heavily" within the X environment, I find it
an excellent solution.
It requires Microsoft Windows (I am using 3.0). That means that I have
my normal PC windows and I have "X" windows. Actually, XVision works in
either "multi-window" or "single-window" mode. The "multi" means that
each X client has its own Microsoft window and that Microsoft Windows
handles much of the windowing -- more efficient that way. The "single"
approach means there is one X window, inside of which you have as many
X clients as you wish (see caveat later). I actually prefer working this
way, as it is closer to the real X feel. Nonetheless, you should realize
that the more efficient way is "multi" windowing.
Since the PC is color, the X, naturally, provides color. With one
exception, I have not had any problem with the color. It has only been
an asset. The one exception is FrameMaker -- just yesterday I tried for the
first time to use it and it complained that the colors weren't setup
correctly. I haven't tried to resolve this yet, but I assume it will be no
problem.
So far as running on a 286, it is slow in setting up the environment. It
takes about 60 sections before I see my first X window. On a 386, I assume it
would be much faster. Until I get all my windows set up just the way I like
takes about 1 1/2 minutes more. Once set up, I have two mailbox windows, one
to a Sun workstation and one to a mainframe, I have a "manual browser" from
another mainframe, I have a "workload" figure from a Sun, and I have four
working windows, two on Suns and two on mainframes, these last two using
"tn3270" to give me true 3270 compatibility. And that works nicely, too.
Again, but for setup, I think the response is fine. I have good control of
moving windows around, resizing them, iconizing them, opening them up, etc.
By the way, my screen is a MultiSync 3D, with a video adapter from Video Seven,
512K video RAM. This provides 1024x768 resolution. It means I can devote
one half of my screen to PC and one half to X, and the X side is wide enough
to give me a full 80x24 character screen. The size of the lettering is
small, but I can live with it. I think a better solution, however, would be
to have a 16" or even 19" monitor. I'm looking into that now.
The only big problem that I have is that XVision has a limit, unfortunately,
of only ten X clients. For a serious user, that is a very bad limitation.
Additionally, a bug in the system causes it to die a most unglorious death
when you try to create the eleventh client. As my mother would say, "You
shouldn't know from such things." PC/TCP from FTP, however, allows you
to set a limit on the number of TCP/IP connections, and this precludes my
ever asking for the eleventh client. Visionware is aware of the bug and
is coming out with a correction. They also recognize that ten clients is
a very low number. They aren't saying when they'll have a version allowing
more than ten.
That's about it. In summary, it's a very good solution for one who has
strong ties to the PC world, but needs a "window" (no pun intended) to the
X world.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From ti@altos86.Altos.COM (Ti Kan) 28 Aug 90
I, too, have been using XVision (v3.0) on a 16MHz 386, with FTP's PC/TCP
and 3COM 3C503. My video adapter is an Orchid Prodesigner VGA with
512K memory. Monitor is NEC Multisync 3D. The only real difference
between your setup and mine is that I have Windows 2.0 (both the 286 and
the 386 versions). I have not been altogether happy with this setup.
Performance, in my opinion, is abysmal. This is especially bad if you
run XVision in the single-window mode (and use a UNIX window manager
instead), or if Windows/286 is used. The only nice advantage to using
XVision over other PC X-window packages is the ability to concurrently
run DOS applications in an MS-window and X client windows. You do pay
dearly in sacrificing performance to get this. I also have not been
able to get into any more screen resolution than 640x480 and 8 colors
with XVision. From all the documentation that I read about XVision
and MS-Windows, I could not find a way to reconfigure it. Maybe I
am overlooking something.
I have since switched to using Locus' PC-XSight X Window package,
and Locus' TCP/IP for the PC. This package, compared to XVision,
flat out screams. It is seems more than 10x the speed! Moreover,
I can use UNIX window managers like mwm, and have true X window
look-and-feel. PC-XSight allows you to pop into DOS in full-screen
mode, suspending X, and can resume back when the DOS session is done.
This is not as nice as XVision, but I can live with this given the
vast performance advantage. PC-Xsight isn't perfect, however,
occasionally my X server would hang (popping into DOS is possible, but
the X session cannot be resumed), and requires rebooting the PC
(and restarting xdm on the UNIX host) to recover.
I have also tried to use GSS Software's PC-XView, but for some reason
I couldn't get it to work. I can get into the X-window screen, but
the UNIX host cannot get any clients started on it. I assume it was
configuration problem, but since I had Locus' product working reasonably
well, I abandoned trying to get this package to work. It would be
interesting though, to see how well it stacks up against PC-XSight.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From cogan@eng.umd.edu (Richard Cogan) 16 Aug 90
I use locus computing X server, Xsight, release 2.0 on a gateway 2000 25mhz
running DOS 3.3, I have an ATI VGA 1024 video card and a 3Com 3c501(yes I know
only 8 bit). Xsight runs okay but is very slow (I'm used to a SUN 360s and
DECstations running X11R4). Since my video card has 512k memory I can create
a virtual window bigger than my actual screen size.
I only have two real problems with it.
1) There is no way to unload the locus TCP/IP drivers from memory without
rebooting the computer. Since the computer is not a standalone X terminal
this gets to be a pain because I have to switch autoexec.bat and config.sys
files.
2) The version that I have does not specifically support my video card. If
it did I would get better results out of Xsight. Locus has not informed
me as to whether there is a newer version that supports my video card.
End of file [Cumulative CPU time: 0.57]johnl@gssc.UUCP (John Light) (05/30/91)
Chris Cook collected a lot of interesting information about DOS X servers. This is a valuable service, since all of the products are relatively unknown. As a developer of one of the products mentioned, I want to make a few points. * Much of the experience reported is quite old. * Most of the vendors have been working feverishly at improving these products. * All of the products are much better than they were six months ago. * Most of the products are better than they were three months ago. * X on DOS is real. Most of these products provide X servers that don't require compromises. * All of the vendors are glad to provide up-to-date information about their products. In summary, if you are in the market for a DOS X server, don't rely on old info. I would also like to say that some of the data collected by Chris is pure bunk. (This is not Chris's fault.) Clarifying which is bunk could be construed as a commercial use of the net, so I will restrain myself. John Light johnl@gss.com (503)641-2200