pollack@dendrite.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jordan B Pollack) (10/01/90)
After some software anomolies, I decided to run a disk optimizer
(fastrax), which had me run chkdsk first. It found problems in a
hidden file ibmbio.com among others, and truncated it. Not knowing the
significance at the time, I compacted away. Later, when my machine
wouldn't boot, I deleted and copied both ibmbio.com and ibmdos.com
several ways, ("sys" didnt work), but cannnot solve it and I suspect
some directory tinkering might. I am runing msdos 3.30 on a zenith
supersport286e.
I know I can fully back up my disk, then reformat it, and run
install and sys, but that will take many hours and floppies. Do any
experts know a shorter way? Thanks in advance.
--
Jordan Pollack Assistant Professor
CIS Dept/OSU Laboratory for AI Research
2036 Neil Ave Email: pollack@cis.ohio-state.edu
Columbus, OH 43210 Fax/Phone: (614) 292-4890browns@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems) (10/01/90)
In article <POLLACK.90Sep30235136@dendrite.cis.ohio-state.edu>, pollack@dendrite.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jordan B Pollack) writes: > [ibmbio.com scrogged] > > I know I can fully back up my disk, then reformat it, and run > install and sys, but that will take many hours and floppies. Do any > experts know a shorter way? Thanks in advance. Try this. It may not work, but it won't hurt anything, and it's quick. 1. Put original DOS disk in drive A: 2. Power up 3. Type the command "SYS C:" 4. Remove DOS disk from drive A: 5. Press Ctrl-Alt-Del If it can, it will pur IBMBIO.COM and the other one (IBMSYS.COM?) back on your hard disk. If you can then boot successfully, there's no need for a low-level format based on your description of the situation. (I have received email to the contrary, but I stand by this statement.) However, you probably need to look into _how_ ibmbio.com got scrogged in the first place. The above is my own opinion and not attributable to any other person or organization. email: browns@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, U.S.A. (216) 371-0043
mlord@bwdls58.bnr.ca (Mark Lord) (10/02/90)
In article <POLLACK.90Sep30235136@dendrite.cis.ohio-state.edu> pollack@cis.ohio-state.edu writes: >After some software anomolies, I decided to run a disk optimizer >(fastrax), which had me run chkdsk first. It found problems in a >hidden file ibmbio.com among others, and truncated it. Not knowing the >significance at the time, I compacted away. Later, when my machine >wouldn't boot, I deleted and copied both ibmbio.com and ibmdos.com >several ways, ("sys" didnt work), but cannnot solve it and I suspect >some directory tinkering might. I am runing msdos 3.30 on a zenith >supersport286e. > >I know I can fully back up my disk, then reformat it, and run >install and sys, but that will take many hours and floppies. Do any >experts know a shorter way? Thanks in advance. Assuming SYS C: from a floppy does not work, dig out the Norton Utilities version 4.5 or greater, and run diskfix. There is a "Make disk bootable" option under one of the submenus ("Common problems" or something). Run it. If you lack norton, buy it. Otherwise, try something like this: IF your disk defrag program (fastrax) likes to group files from the same directory physically together on the disk, you can make space at the start of your disk as follows: copy IBMBIO.COM from a floppy into a file on the hard drive called AAAAAAAA.AAA. Remove the system/readonly/hidden (shr--) attributes for now, so fastrax will not ignore it. Now run fastrax, fasttrax, and it ought to place AAAAAAAA.AAA physically first (assuming it does a physical sort as noted previously). After it completes, rename the AAAAAAAA.AAA file to IBMBIO.COM, give it the correct attributes (shr--), and try rebooting. Good Luck. -- ___Mark S. Lord__________________________________________ | ..uunet!bnrgate!mlord%bmerh724 | Climb Free Or Die (NH) | | MLORD@BNR.CA Ottawa, Ontario | Personal views only. | |________________________________|________________________|
andy (Andy Vaught) (10/02/90)
pollack@dendrite.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jordan B Pollack) writes: > After some software anomolies, I decided to run a disk optimizer > (fastrax), which had me run chkdsk first. It found problems in a > hidden file ibmbio.com among others, and truncated it. Not knowing the > significance at the time, I compacted away. Later, when my machine > wouldn't boot, I deleted and copied both ibmbio.com and ibmdos.com > several ways, ("sys" didnt work), but cannnot solve it and I suspect > some directory tinkering might. I am runing msdos 3.30 on a zenith > supersport286e. > > I know I can fully back up my disk, then reformat it, and run > install and sys, but that will take many hours and floppies. Do any > experts know a shorter way? Thanks in advance. It looks like you're going to have to go and do a low-level reformat and backup. IBMDOS and IBMBIO require very special treatment, since they have to be loaded by a simple loader that has almost no idea of what the DOS file structure is like. This is because IBMDOS and IBMBIO *are* DOS. The following restrictions apply: 1) IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS) must be the first file in the root directory 2) IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS) must be the second file 3) The files must be the first files stored on disk, and they must be stored in order in contiguous clusters. As you can see, after deleting these files and compacting your HD, things are truly screwed up. As it is now, other files occupy these reserved directory entries and clusters. Although it would be possible to move the two files to new directory entries, and reassign the first clusters, it would not be easy at all. I know of no program that allows one to get this "low level" with file structure, and writing such a special utility would probably be more trouble than its worth. Reformat time...
kaldis@emerald.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) (10/02/90)
In article <POLLACK.90Sep30235136@dendrite.cis.ohio-state.edu> pollack@dendrite.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jordan B Pollack) writes: > After some software anomolies, I decided to run a disk optimizer > (fastrax), which had me run chkdsk first. It found problems in a > hidden file ibmbio.com among others, and truncated it. [...] > I know I can fully back up my disk, then reformat it, and run > install and sys, but that will take many hours and floppies. Do any > experts know a shorter way? Thanks in advance. There are two things you must do. First, you must clear enough *contiguous* space at the beginning of the disk to accommodate both IBMBIO.COM and IBMDOS.COM. The easiest way to do this is to append a dummy file to the end of one of them to make up for the truncated portion. Change the attributes so that it isn't SYSTEM, HIDDEN, READ-ONLY and do "COPY /b IBMBIO.COM+DUMMY IBMBIO.DUM". (The "b" flag tells DOS that these are binary files, so DOS then handles them in "raw" rather than "cooked" mode -- i.e., it doesn't quit when a ^Z -- the end-of file character -- is encounterd. I'm not sure if it will work if you copy the file to a file of the same name -- in some cases it doesn't.) Erase the original IBMBIO.COM and rename IBMBIO.DUM to IBMBIO.COM, and sort the root directory so that it is the first file listed, followed by IBMDOS.COM, and reset its attributes to SYSTEM, HIDDEN, READ-ONLY. Re-compact the disk. Then erase IBMBIO.COM and IBMDOS.COM (you will have to unset the READ-ONLY flags on these files to do so). Then go back and edit the root directory. Change the very first character in the filenames of the two erased IBM*.COM files from a E5 hex to 00. SYS should now work. P.S., Some disk compactors will not alter the location of system files, so there is no guarantee that the above WILL actually work. -- Theodore A. Kaldis | "Perhaps we may +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- | frighten away email: kaldis@remus.rutgers.edu | the ghost of so UUCP: {...}!rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!kaldis | many years ago U.S. Snail: [the P.O. box has gone away] | with a little ex-Ma Bell: (908) 283-4855 (voice) | illumination . . ." [the phone is soon to follow, as I will soon depart for California]
dmurdoch@watstat.waterloo.edu (Duncan Murdoch) (10/02/90)
In article <5XwDq2w163w@bluemoon.UUCP> andy (Andy Vaught) writes: > 1) IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS) must be the first file in the root directory > 2) IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS) must be the second file > 3) The files must be the first files stored on disk, and they must be >stored in order in contiguous clusters. > >As you can see, after deleting these files and compacting your HD, things >are truly screwed up. As it is now, other files occupy these reserved >directory entries and clusters. Although it would be possible to move the >two files to new directory entries, and reassign the first clusters, it >would not be easy at all. I know of no program that allows one to get this >"low level" with file structure, and writing such a special utility would >probably be more trouble than its worth. Reformat time... You're far too pessimistic. It's very easy to move files: just copy them under a new name, delete the old ones, and rename the new ones. It's not hard to move subdirectories: create a new one, move all the files, delete the old one, rename (or not if you don't have a directory renamer) the new one. (You have to be a little careful about the order you do things, or you'll end up with the new ones in the same spots as the old ones. Do all the copying before any of the deleting.) The hard part is knowing which files to move. For that you need a program that'll show you the filenames associated with each cluster on your disk. The best one of those that I've see is (blush) the one I wrote myself, SHOWFAT. Send me mail if you'd like a copy... Duncan Murdoch dmurdoch@watstat.waterloo.edu
bomgard@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Tim Bomgardner) (10/02/90)
In article <5XwDq2w163w@bluemoon.UUCP> andy (Andy Vaught) writes: }pollack@dendrite.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jordan B Pollack) writes: } }>[trashed bios and bdos, and can't get them back] }It looks like you're going to have to go and do a low-level reformat and }backup. IBMDOS and IBMBIO require very special treatment, since they have }to be loaded by a simple loader that has almost no idea of what the DOS }file structure is like. This is because IBMDOS and IBMBIO *are* DOS. The }following restrictions apply: } 1) IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS) must be the first file in the root directory } 2) IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS) must be the second file } 3) The files must be the first files stored on disk, and they must be }stored in order in contiguous clusters. } }As you can see, after deleting these files and compacting your HD, things }are truly screwed up. As it is now, other files occupy these reserved }directory entries and clusters. Although it would be possible to move the }two files to new directory entries, and reassign the first clusters, it }would not be easy at all. I know of no program that allows one to get this }"low level" with file structure, and writing such a special utility would }probably be more trouble than its worth. Reformat time... Softlogic Disk Optimizer will do this without batting an eye. I'm sure other "file rearranger" utilities can also handle it.
poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russell Poffenberger) (10/03/90)
In article <5XwDq2w163w@bluemoon.UUCP> andy (Andy Vaught) writes: >pollack@dendrite.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jordan B Pollack) writes: > >> After some software anomolies, I decided to run a disk optimizer >> (fastrax), which had me run chkdsk first. It found problems in a >> hidden file ibmbio.com among others, and truncated it. Not knowing the >> significance at the time, I compacted away. Later, when my machine >> wouldn't boot, I deleted and copied both ibmbio.com and ibmdos.com >> several ways, ("sys" didnt work), but cannnot solve it and I suspect >> some directory tinkering might. I am runing msdos 3.30 on a zenith >> supersport286e. >> >> I know I can fully back up my disk, then reformat it, and run >> install and sys, but that will take many hours and floppies. Do any >> experts know a shorter way? Thanks in advance. > >It looks like you're going to have to go and do a low-level reformat and >backup. IBMDOS and IBMBIO require very special treatment, since they have >to be loaded by a simple loader that has almost no idea of what the DOS >file structure is like. This is because IBMDOS and IBMBIO *are* DOS. The >following restrictions apply: > 1) IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS) must be the first file in the root directory > 2) IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS) must be the second file > 3) The files must be the first files stored on disk, and they must be >stored in order in contiguous clusters. > >As you can see, after deleting these files and compacting your HD, things >are truly screwed up. As it is now, other files occupy these reserved >directory entries and clusters. Although it would be possible to move the >two files to new directory entries, and reassign the first clusters, it >would not be easy at all. I know of no program that allows one to get this >"low level" with file structure, and writing such a special utility would >probably be more trouble than its worth. Reformat time... I believe some of the utilites like Norton and such allow you to put the boot tracks on. They will move files as necessary to make the proper space. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254
browns@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems) (10/05/90)
In article <5XwDq2w163w@bluemoon.UUCP>, andy (Andy Vaught) writes: > It looks like you're going to have to go and do a low-level reformat and > backup. In an earlier posting, I disagreed. I still disagree.(*) > IBMDOS and IBMBIO require very special treatment, since they have > to be loaded by a simple loader that has almost no idea of what the DOS > file structure is like. True as far as it goes. But "almost no idea" is not the same as "no idea". > The following restrictions apply: > 1) IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS) must be the first file in the root directory > 2) IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS) must be the second file > 3) The files must be the first files stored on disk, and they must be > stored in order in contiguous clusters. 1 and 2 are true for all DOS versions up through 3.3 (which was the original poster's question). 3 is >> FALSE << for DOS 3.3. Sometime before then-- I'm not sure how far back--Microsoft removed condition 3 so that you could install a new version of DOS by doing SYS C: without formatting the hard disk. As a side effect, you can also RE-install the same version of DOS, unless IBMBIO.COM or the first sector of IBMDOS.COM has been deleted. There may be another problem that will make you reformat your hard disk, but this problem is not it. (*) If IBMBIO.COM/IBMDOS.COM are scrogged beyond repair, and something else is occupying their sectors, then you do have to reformat your hard disk. But it's not a low-level reformat, just a simple "FORMAT C: /S". The above is my own opinion and not attributable to any other person or organization. email: browns@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, U.S.A. (216) 371-0043
hartnegg@sun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de (Klaus Hartnegg) (10/06/90)
browns@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems) writes: >In article <5XwDq2w163w@bluemoon.UUCP>, andy (Andy Vaught) writes: >> The following restrictions apply: >> 1) IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS) must be the first file in the root directory >> 2) IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS) must be the second file >> 3) The files must be the first files stored on disk, and they must be >> stored in order in contiguous clusters. >1 and 2 are true for all DOS versions up through 3.3 (which was the >original poster's question). 3 is >> FALSE << for DOS 3.3. Who knows something about upgrading to Dos 4.01? I tried to do it with Norton's Disk Doctor and it seemed to work first but on the second day Dos destroyed the boot-area, fat and directory of the hard-disk on C: while running an endless loop that was writing data on D: (second partition) and this second partition got full. DOS 4.01 can read floppy disks with the old type of FAT but what about hard disks? And what about Dos's signature that every disk gets that is formatted with 4.01? Is it really necessary on hard disks? Could the missing of this signature cause DOS to overwrite the FAT? -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Klaus Hartnegg, Kleist-Str. 7, D-7835 Teningen, Tel 07641/48652 BITNET : HAKL@DFRRUF1 Internet : HAKL@ibm.ruf.uni-freiburg.de
kdq@demott.COM (Kevin D. Quitt) (10/06/90)
In article <1286.270b48d3@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> browns@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems) writes: >In article <5XwDq2w163w@bluemoon.UUCP>, andy (Andy Vaught) writes: >> It looks like you're going to have to go and do a low-level reformat and >> backup. > >In an earlier posting, I disagreed. I still disagree.(*) So do I. >> The following restrictions apply: >> 1) IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS) must be the first file in the root directory >> 2) IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS) must be the second file >> 3) The files must be the first files stored on disk, and they must be >> stored in order in contiguous clusters. > >1 and 2 are true for all DOS versions up through 3.3 (which was the >original poster's question). 3 is >> FALSE << for DOS 3.3. Sometime The first cluster of IO.SYS/IBMBIO.COM *must* be in the first data cluster (cluster #2). The bootstrap loader does assume it is the first files on disk and is contiguous, but after the furst cluster it doesn't matter. The first thing the code in that first sector's worth does is to read in the FAT, and reload IO.SYS. >There may be another problem that will make you reformat your hard disk, >but this problem is not it. > >(*) If IBMBIO.COM/IBMDOS.COM are scrogged beyond repair, and something >else is occupying their sectors, then you do have to reformat your hard >disk. But it's not a low-level reformat, just a simple "FORMAT C: /S". Even still should not require a format. Judicious use of debug to move cluster around, and something like NU to make it easier to edit the contents would allow you to move whatever's in cluster 2 away, then you can either SYS the disk, or reboot from floppy and COPY io.sys and msdos.sys onto the hard disk. (the reboot is necessary so that DOS will re-use that lowest cluster instead of the lowest "cluster that hasn't been used yet this session". -- _ Kevin D. Quitt demott!kdq kdq@demott.com DeMott Electronics Co. 14707 Keswick St. Van Nuys, CA 91405-1266 VOICE (818) 988-4975 FAX (818) 997-1190 MODEM (818) 997-4496 PEP last 96.37% of all statistics are made up.
feustel@well.sf.ca.us (David Alan Feustel) (10/07/90)
Create a large file on your disk. Unhide the system files. Run Norton
Utilities SD program. Under options specify that the large file is to
come first . Then Compact disk. Then erase large file. There should
then be room for sys to install the two hidden ibm files in the proper
place.
--
Dave Feustel, 1930 Curdes Ave, Fort Wayne, IN 46805-2710 (219)-482-9631
EMAIL: feustel@well.sf.ca.us {ucbvax,apple,hplabs,pacbell}!well!feustel
BIX: feustel COMPUSERV: 72730,566 MCIMAIL: dfeustel steveha@microsoft.UUCP (Steve Hastings) (10/09/90)
If you have _The Norton Utilities_, verson 4.5 or higher, you can simply use the Norton Disk Doctor to straighten out your DOS hidden files. Choose "Make a Disk Bootable" off the menu. _PC Tools Deluxe_ may have similar functionality. -- Steve "I don't speak for Microsoft" Hastings ===^=== ::::: uunet!microsoft!steveha steveha@microsoft.uucp ` \\==|